MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
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Manager Avram Grant said last month: "Football should be decided on the pitch not in the courts, not in the Premier League offices."
Football IS decided on the pitch. Badly performing businesses who cannot afford to pay their VAT bills have their fate decided in the courts.
Still - another sad day for football.
It's a bit more complex than that tho. To play well you need good players, they cost tons of money. So you have to balance a knife edge between borrowing to fund good players and keeping the baliffs from the door.
although it's very harsh to deduct points from a team in that position, the whole idea is to act as a deterrent to them overstretching themselves financially - effectively economic cheating - so has to be right.
Why so much fuss about Portsmouth all of a sudden when plenty of clubs have been docked points for going into administration before? It's been a rule for 10 years now for good reason.
Personally I think you should be thrown out of the league completely, that might concentrate some minds.
There is a fuss over Portsmouth because they are the first Premiership team to go into administration - all the previous teams have been from lower divisions.
I do agree with Molgrips though - it is a balancing act, but it is often the teams that overstretch themselves that fail (ie Leeds United).
deducting points will help a team go down to where there's less money, which will mean a fire sale of players incurring even more of a loss so this all acts as a disincentive to investment in smaller clubs which in turn is a move in favour of those bigger clubs who are less likely to find themselves in administration and can pick up a few decent players on the cheap.
the fa (or sfa for that matter) favouring the bigger clubs at the expense of the smaller ones with no regard to fans - who'd have thought it?
Why have they only been deducted 9 points & not 10 like all the other teams that have gone into administration?
9 points is the premier league rule, 10 points the football league rule. Less games per season in the premier league is the reason, which is fair enough.
I see, thanx. 😉
It wont make any difference, they'd be down anyway - the Championship is probably where a team like Portsmouth (at a push) belong anyway.
There are rumours that the club has been used for money laundering, so it is a bit more complicated than over stretching.
It's a bit more complex than that tho. To play well you need good players, they cost tons of money. So you have to balance a knife edge between borrowing to fund good players and keeping the baliffs from the door.
Actually you don't. You can live within your means. If that means not being in the premiership then so be it - plenty of other clubs seem to manage the economic thing though. Portsmouth are rather like somebody getting a self-certified mortgage with made up figures on the hope the housing market will keep rising fast enough to cover their debts.
Big ButSlimmer - the problem is that there is a problem that needs a solution. Whilst the present rules may seem a disadvantage to some clubs, they are there to protect not only football as a sport or individual clubs, but the surrounding economy as a whole. It is far too easy for clubs to raise obscene amounts of finance when there is precious little hope of being able to repay them unless they have an immediate return on their investment. When a club can't pay debts and goes into administration, there is always a huge amount of surrounding businesses that lose out - they are right at the bottom of the list when it comes to any reduced payments of outstanding bills (HMRC is always top of the list).
Back to the Leeds example - they borrowed silly money on the assumption they would have returned to the Champion's League. They didn't, they sacked the manager and sold off all the players - that was the start of the decline. If the easy solution was to go into administration without any *footballing* penalty, then more clubs would do it.
Again, see the subsequent Leeds example - they were relegated already so they went deliberately into administration so they *thought* they would escape further punishment in the following season - of course they didn't.
The whole set-up is a mess really and unfortunately football is not about the club, the support, the fans. It is just businessmen making themselves big money then getting out scot-free.
HMRC is always top of the list
Not with football clubs: [i]When a football club goes into administration, the 'football creditors rule' applies, which requires football-related debts, such as players' salaries, to be given priority. [/i]
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7741859.stm
Which is a little odd. Its also quite annoying when you consider that HMRC effectively works for the public.
unfortunately football is not about the club, the support, the fans.
That's pretty much where the rot starts.
A couple of years ago, our chairman, who fancied himself in the Big Time was part of the league committee that negotiated the next Setanta deal. Then he was all over the papers saying how great all those tv millions were for the game. In the same papers our first game was announced - away on a Monday night to keep the tv folks happy. How many fans will travel on Monday nights? And, in spite of the money, how do empty stadia help the game? then Setanta went bust and the money's gone anyway.
Like you say, there's a huge surrounding economy, but not all that's healthy.
Geoffj - I stand corrected - the poor little footballers are top of the list as you say - it wouldn't be fair if they couldn't afford to bling up their Astons would it?
I sometimes wish I didn't enjoy the game so much 🙁
As a result of the general shite with football, and finally precipitated by the way FIFA shafted the lesser European teams before the WC play-offs (Note: NOT because of the Henry handball, horrible as all that business was), I've been on a self-imposed football strike this year. It's been quite easy actually - and I can see non-football fans' point when they say it's just wall2wall coverage everywhere. Maybe it just didn't matter that much in the first place.
It really is a rotten business these days (not a rotten sport, it's still a beautiful game). The stuff that's come out in the last few weeks about the Portsmouth saga has just reinforced that perception - "fit and proper" persons my arse!
It really is a rotten business these days (not a rotten sport, it's still a beautiful game). The stuff that's come out in the last few weeks about the Portsmouth saga has just reinforced that perception - "fit and proper" persons my arse!
+1
Geoffj - I stand corrected - the poor little footballers are top of the list as you say - it wouldn't be fair if they couldn't afford to bling up their Astons would it?
It's outrageous. How the hell did that rule ever get passed. 👿
I am a big fan and sometime season ticket holder (and still wetting myself with excitement about the World Cup) but a mate who used to have a season ticket with me said some time ago, when Leeds were still in the Premiership, that the whole game wasn't about us - the fans - anymore and he wasn't renewing the ticket because he felt so strongly about it.
He really was speaking the truth.
To be fair, employees of any company are preferential creditors.
To be fair, employees of any company are preferential creditors.
IMO I think the local baker who delivers 10,000 pies and buns a week and gets paid once a month by the club might be a little more important than some overpaid spit-roaster. If there are tax threshold at which you no longer receive family tax credit etc,then there should be a limit as to how much they get.When Dundee went belly up ten years ago,Mr Baker and hospitality supplier etc got 3p in the pound,yet the club were allowed to hang on to an asset like the ground? Not right.
No-one cares about Chester City FC; the forgotten club....
I wonder how the Creditors who wont see their money back feel about Portsmouth Football club.
The mind boggles with humans- they'll follow, live, breathe and write the name of a private company on their arm.
Crackers.
duckman - how much of an asset is Dens? Not in a prime location by any stretch of the imagination. So does it make more sense to in the long term to allow them to keep trading and hopefully get themselves back on an even keel or just shut them down so there's no more business ever again for Mr baker and his hospitalty chums
I would imagine that the sort of trading Portsmouth have been doing is the kind most small businesses could do without.Dens is a pit,and not worth much.But why should football clubs be allowed to avoid the winding up orders that anybody else would get.It is not as if they are part of their community any more is it?
Football creditors also include other clubs who are owed transfer money, who may have budgeted correctly.
HMRC contested the validity of Portsmouth entering administration as they knew they'd be falling down the pecking order, unlikely to see their money.
The Football Act in a way ensures that the merry-go-round continues, by prioritising debts to the clubs first...
duckman - well when they into administration, they were part of the greater world commun...oh, no, sorry, I can't do this.
[i]"Football should be decided on the pitch not in the courts, not in the Premier League offices."[/i]
It is possible that it will [u]never be decided[/u] who has finally won The Football.
Portsmouth Football Club
Now I understand why Man Utd has such a large fan base outside Manchester.
Its a global club ready made for fans who either dont have a home team, or are possibly sick of watching loss after loss against slick/winning teams 😉