[Closed] Police Kettling Cyclists outside Olympic Opening

You are hilarious captain. I can't think of anyone LESS IN TOUCH with the 'Man on the Clapham Omnibus' than you.

Repeating the same old bollocks doesn't make it real. I'm pretty sure it won't stop you though.

but a few of us can see the bigger picture.....

Yes, a few of US can. And we can see that CM antagonise and wind up the general public. That's the US that see their rides, that have been on their rides, that have been affected by their rides and that have seen the effect.

So, yes, you're right, a few of us can see the bigger picture.....

How do you know that I'm not in touch, Useless? From what I post on the interwebz?

Well, seeing as I live, work and commute in London (By bike), I'd say I'm rather close to them, thanks. They are the other side of the river in Clapham, but that's what the moat's for, isn't it? 😉

Cfh.
Is that the royal we?
Have you thought that stw might not be representative of other cyclists.
Have you seen how many "skinny jeanen hipsters" there are in east london.
How many "hippies"
Have you thought, that people who ride bikes, but aren't "proper" cyclists might agree with them?

[i]Have you thought, that people who ride bikes, but aren't "proper" cyclists [b][u]might[/u][/b] agree with them? [/i]

Yes, they might. But then again...

How do you know that I'm not in touch, Useless? From what I post on the interwebz?

I assume this is for me. You forget how long we've bantered captain...if your online persona is not an accurate reflection of who you are I'd be deeply sceptical of either half of you.

Well, seeing as I live, work and commute in London (By bike), I'd say I'm rather close to them, thanks. They are the other side of the river in Clapham, but that's what the moat's for, isn't it

Living (or working) near the river doesn't make you a spokesman for the common man flashy, quite the opposite.

I, on the other hand am more common than the green expanse in Wimbledon inhabited by Wombles. If such a subject is capable of uniting myself with El Cap, shouldn't CM at least be taking note?

[img] [/img]

Ask the man on the Clapham Omnibus and he'll say something along the lines of....

Have you asked "him"?
Have you even been on the Clapham Omnibus? 😉

Nealglover-- you were a ski instructer, then worked in IT, now you clean posh cars--- your world view is possibly tempered by your experiences....

Oooh, Jesus is back, look busy...

Have you even been on the Clapham Omnibus?

Nah. I use my bike! 🙂

creakey -- you split my sides with your wit, bet you had lots of spotty friends at college

I think what is being lost here is that this is a cycling forum & most people agree with what CM are trying to achieve = loosely speaking is better conditione for cyclists. The argument should be about CM helping to achieve it or not. It is kinda symptomatic of STW that this can be derailed by a couple of people with a chip on their shoulder tying to demonstrate how authentically working class they are..

...and the weather in Poplar?

[i]I think what is being lost here isbthatbrhis is a cycling forum & most people agree with what CM are trying to achieve = loosely speaking is better conditione for cyclists. The argument should be about CM helping to achieve it or not. It is kinda symptomatic of STW that this can be derailed by a couple of people with a chip on their shoulder tying to demonstrate how authentically working class they are.. [/i]

Have you actually read anything that's been written?

We'd love better conditions for cyclists, but we don't think that pissing people off is a good way to achieve that...

😆 at you, rather than with you.

rudebwoy - Member
Nealglover-- you were a ski instructer, then worked in IT, now you clean posh cars--- your world view is possibly tempered by your experiences....

Please explain ?

I'm yet to see how my Job has anything to do with my opinion of CM (as you previously claimed)

Mine bold the rest you for clarity

some people who have nothing to do with the protest/celebration of cycling have been caught up in it.
The problem lies with CM.

[b]you are right there the Police were literally powerless and bullied into arresting innocent folk by C M ...the bastards[/b]

We really need a belm emoticon.

[BIG FAT IRONY]...cos that's just what I said...[/BIG FAT IRONY]

well i rather wish I had not googled Belm what a lovely turn of phrase you have. At least debate with me on the isssue rather than use insults...if you can of course manage that 🙄

anyway i happy you now accept that the Police are responsible for when they arrest people rather than CM
Thanks

You've a fair point neal.
I'm a truck driver ffs.
It's in my job description to hate all cyclists 😀

[i]well i rather wish I had not googled Belm what a lovely turn of phrase you have. At least debate with me on the isssue rather than use insults...[/i]

Sorry, I didn't appreciate how delicate you are. Belm was and still is a way of expressing irritation at the inability of someone to understand your point of view, perhaps it means something else when you google it.

However, you still appear to be dodging the issue by accusing me of being insulting.

I have nothing else to add.

Five 'undred!

I have done nothing but comment on the issue with an aside asking you to not insult and debate the issue. You could of course have quoted my reply re that if you wished but hey you preferred another ad hominem and some BS about me avoiding the issue whilst you avoided the issue
I shall keep you to your word about nothing further to add 😉

never in my 8 years on STW have I felt the need to request that a thread is closed.... until now.

I know a song that'll get on your nerves, get on your nerves, get on your nerves...

goodbye horse, goodbye horse,

he was saying goodbye to his horse,

and as he was saying goodbye to his horse,

he was saying goodbye to his horse.....

Please explain ?
I'm yet to see how my Job has anything to do with my opinion of CM (as you previously claimed)

Yesterday's guardian:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/aug/01/cyclists-like-pedestrians-must-get-angry

It has been a vivid, ironic, sometimes brutal, sometimes tragic, week for cyclists. I don't mean the Olympians, I mean regular cyclists. Last week Critical Mass did their monthly cycle through central London – they've been doing it on the last Friday of the month for the past 18 years. There was really no need for the police to have a cow, but a cow was had, resulting in kettling, CS gas and 182 arrests. (Three people have since been charged with public order offences.) Y ou can sign this petition if you like...

The petition:
http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/metropolitan-police-criminal-justice-system-uk-justice-for-the-critical-mass-182

On Friday 27th July, 182 cyclists were held in a police kettle for two hours, handcuffed in buses for three hours, and held in a police cell from six hours to two days. These included a 13 year old boy. Police also confirmed the cyclists reports that CS gas was used during these arrests.

Out of 182 cyclists, only 3 have been charged with any offence. However, ALL have bail conditions imposed on them until September 18th 2012 restricting their freedom to move, assmeble, associate and live their lives.

We have the following demands:
1. All bail conditions should be discharged
2. All data including DNA, fingerprint, addresses etc taken from those cyclists should be removed from all paper and comupter records of police & other agencies.
3. An independent review of the police behaviour on Friday 27th July should be conducted as a matter of urgency.

All this for continuing the 18 year tradition of a bike ride through the streets of London on the last Friday of every month.

This political policing to crush dissent and restrict peoples rights without charge must be stoppped. Help us stand for a police and legal system which we can believe in, sign our petition today.

N.B
See one eyewitness account of the harrowing experience: http://www.scriptonitedaily.org/2012/07/the-total-policing-of-critical-mass-eye.html#disqus_thread

I still don't get the problem here.

They had conditions imposed upon them, lawfully, and chose to ignore them in order to court controversy and make a point.

they were told in advance that if they chose to ignore the conditions , then there would be repercussions.

so whats the problem? if you can't do the time, don't do the crime.

Anyone want to set up another petition requesting that the privileges that Critical Mass had previously been granted be reviewed, and that by using antagonising and provocative tactics to step beyond the limits of police request, turned that cycle ride into an illegal assembly and illegal procession?

Nice impartial blog there

Some cyclists see it as a political statement for better conditions for cyclists, promoting the environmental and health impacts of cycling over cars, or reclaiming public space. Some see it as an awesome bit of fun and civil disobedience and others simply love cycling in their city. The best bit is that none of these opinions is wrong; they are all present and all welcome.

Well if they're all present and welcome, then they forgot [i]some cyclists see it as a bunch of reactionary nobheads whose juvenile and confrontational [s]bell-endery [/s]'activism' does our cause more harm than good, in fact sets it back years in the eyes of the general public[/i]

Why don't these CM morons get this?!! FFS!!

They could have 'celebrated cycling' anywhere in the capital. They didn't! They went to the one place they had been specifically (and perfectly reasonably IMHO) requested not to go! So in my mind, there's only one reason anyone would do that. And that's if you're specific goal is confrontational - to provoke a reaction from the authorities

Its blatantly transparent that was the idea. There's no other reasonable explanantion. So ultimately .... you got the ruck you wanted. So stop bitching about it you moaning half-wits! You're convincing no-one. Hence the public indifference, or open hostility, to your supposed 'injustice'. The fact is you got what you went looking for. End of. What infuriates me is the patronising way in which you think we can't all see this

****ing idiots!!

"better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer"

For the innocent bystanders dragged in, kettled, and wrongfully arrested.

I've already commented on this thread with my disapproval, and reasons, of CM's actions on Friday. That's one problem
But "asshats" (as this forum likes to call them) or not, there were innocent people treated disgracefully by the Met. That's a different problem.

what he said ...iirc that there London is a big place and they could have gone anywhere within it's boundaries so why go to the one place that you could not if not for a ruck?
you cannot claim police state if they give you the entire capital to cycle in bar one area and then you go there.

As i siad earlier aware of their own rights and how to protect them but very little interest in anyone elses rights or theor responsibilities to others.

A police statement said:
People have a right to protest and it is an incredibly important part of our democracy … What people do not have the right to do is to hold a protest that stops other people from exercising their own rights to go about their business – that means athletes who have trained for years for their chance in a lifetime to compete, millions of ticketholders from seeing the world's greatest sporting event, and everyone else in London who wants to get around.

FFS I am quoting the babylon as th reasonable ones here 😯

For the innocent bystanders dragged in, kettled and wrongfully arrested.

No, [b]stop[/b], there's an important division here - being arrested and then later shown to be innocent and no charges being brought is [b]not[/b] the same as being wrongfully or unlawfully arrested.

No need to get shouty and sweary about points made by both you and me pages earlier. That's just boring, but louder and more abusive.
CM were wrong.
But the debate has moved on, and for me, singletrackhor's story shows that there were non-CM cyclists who suffered at least wrongful arrest, and possibly brutality. The Met were wrong too.

[b]Met Police in being up for a ruck with a bunch of 'activists' out looking for one Shocka!!![/b]

People have a right to protest and it is an incredibly important part of our democracy … What people do not have the right to do is to hold a protest that stops other people from exercising their own rights to go about their business – that means athletes who have trained for years for their chance in a lifetime to compete, millions of ticketholders from seeing the world's greatest sporting event, and everyone else in London who wants to get around.

lets pick this apart shall we?

people have a right to protest when you, the police say they can - if you say they can't because whitehall have told you to oppose it then they actually are being denied the right to protest aren't they?

all marches and protests invlove roads and areas being closed off which naturally 'stops other people from exercising their own rights to go about their business'. This is a totally mute point and is only made because it sounds reasonable but actually is crap.

would two hundred cyclists really prevent 'athletes who have trained for years for their chance in a lifetime to compete, millions of ticketholders from seeing the world's greatest sporting event, and everyone else in London who wants to get around' from doing pretty much whatever they wanted to do? Would it cause more problems that a tube station beiing closed or an RTA? No it wouldn't and no it didn't.

Bombastic bullshit peddled by the police, to see it as any other than that is naive.

all marches and protests invlove roads and areas being closed off

and legally arranged marches / protests / processions (at least in central London) are registered in advance by so many days, and have a route coordinated with the Police.

yes and whats your point? they still disrupt other people's lives.

So if the police, on this occasion, had given CM to hold a demo outside the Olympic opening ceremony, do you reckon the muslim brotherhood, the EDL etc, etc, etc would be asking to do the same?

lets pick this apart shall we?
people have a right to protest when you, the police say they can - if you say they can't because whitehall have told you to oppose it then they actually are being denied the right to protest aren't they?

Well let's pick that apart too then shall we ?

It's not a "protest" is it ? That's what we keep getting told ......

It's a few people out for a ride together.

So that's all irrelevant.

Interesting, but not in the slightest bit relevant to CM.

so?
so do strikes

at least by being planned and legal, the Police can put in place measures and diversions to minimise disruption.

Oh... and yossarian... if you want bombast, never mind the police, have you read that CM blog?

Some fine comparisons with CM's 'struggle'

The Suffragettes? the Jarrow Marchers? CND? John Carlos and Tommie Smith and the Civil Rights Movement?

Yes ... you're in exactly that league. Now ... about this police 'bombast' 🙄

lets pick this apart shall we?

people have a right to protest when you, the police say they can - if you say they can't because whitehall have told you to oppose it then they actually are being denied the right to protest aren't they?

they could protest anywhere in the UK bar the one place they chose to....what did they think would happen and why is this the polices fault?

all marches and protests invlove roads and areas being closed off which naturally 'stops other people from exercising their own rights to go about their business'. This is a totally mute point and is only made because it sounds reasonable but actually is crap.

would two hundred cyclists really prevent 'athletes who have trained for years for their chance in a lifetime to compete, millions of ticketholders from seeing the world's greatest sporting event, and everyone else in London who wants to get around' from doing pretty much whatever they wanted to do? Would it cause more problems that a tube station beiing closed or an RTA? No it wouldn't and no it didn't.

I think the point is that they have the right to protest what they dont have the right to do is to stop anyone else from exercising their right s to participate in their celebration ..do you disagree or is it only your rights you GAS about?

Bombastic bullshit peddled by the police, to see it as any other than that is naive.

they could have done it anywhere but one place and they went to that one place and then they blame da babylon for stopping them from their right to protest EVEN THOUGH IT WAS NOT A PROTEST

at least by being planned and legal, the Police can put in place measures and diversions to minimise disruption.

Yes, there are arguments about morality and the legal system and how the world is broken, the police are corrupt, cars are evil and capitalism isn't working etc. Many people will disagree with whatever views you have on this. Because of all the potential disagreements over finer moral points, opinion will be divided - some will agree, some will disagree. This is [b]not[/b] the best course of action if you want support. You are literally breaking your support into tiny pieces. This results in fewer people listening to, or agreeing with you.

If Critical Mass want support, they need to stick to being a bunch of people riding bikes. Inclusive, lowest common denominator stuff. Be like the peaceful protesters sitting in a university courtyard. Many many people had sympathy for them when they got pepper sprayed because they had done [i]nothing[/i] to provoke it.

If you fully support provoking the police, you have to question if you really want mass support, or whether you just like provoking the police.

oh dear chaps, of course its bollcks. you all keep going on about whether or not its a protest, well the police clearly call it that hence the press release. What do the courts say about it? Is it or isn't it?

Yeah if you dont have a student revolutionary voew of the police you are indeed naive

my view of the police is neither student nor revolutionary. in many ways they do an excellent and thankless task. they only ever really come a cropper when they get lent on by whitehall which is happening more and more. If anyone truly believes that the police are not politicised and exist purely to protect the public then they are living in a fantasy world and have been for decades.

Are you seriously suggesting that temporarily preventing all and sundry (because, as I said, it wouldn't have stopped with CM) protesting in an area where the police will have their hands full like on very few occassions in their history, is infringing peoples civil rights?

Get a grip!

I can imagine what response I'd get from Greater Manchester Constabulary if I asked to hold a large protest in Manchester City Centre at 3pm on a Saturday afternoon, on a match day when City and Man Yoo were both playing at home. I'm sure they'd politely but firmly decline, and suggest I may be better doing it elsewhere, or at a differnt time, as they may be a tad busy

Which is whats happened here, despite the cloud-cuckoo-land, paranoid delusional, tin-foil-hatted conspiracy theorists think about their civil rigths being trampled on

They need to get a sense of perspective

Which is whats happened here, despite the cloud-cuckoo-land, paranoid delusional, tin-foil-hatted conspiracy theorists think about their civil rigths being trampled on

They need to get a sense of perspective

this just makes you sound like an old man

There's a very good reason for that scuzz 😉

If anyone truly believes that the police are not politicised and exist purely to protect the public then they are living in a fantasy world and have been for decades.

In what sense do you mean politicised that they exist purely to control the citizens for the benefit of the state like say Syria or china?
Your view is to extreme ..part of what you say are true but they are not agents of state control as you appear to suggest

Do you mean that legally elected politicians set laws and the Police enforce them? In the later sense you may as well argues that teachers are politicised and teach only what the state says as they set the standards,,doctors and nurses only provide health care the state approves off etc

It is an extreme argument you are putting forward [ it can occur when there is debate say the Police v Miners]

200 smelly asshat hipsters sporting goatees, who aren't REAL (tm) cyclists on a single junction aren't really going to require the full commitment of G4S, the SAS and the police are they? Its not going to close the olympics and it won't result in swarming muslamic baby robins dive bombing buck house either. In fact the ONLY reason its made the news is because the police, with no doubt strict orders from whitehall to come down 'ard on troublemakers did precisely that but as usual with the police when its someone elses agenda that hasn't necessarily gone through due process or requires anything other than core officers the police on the ground overdid things.

with no doubt strict orders from whitehall to come down 'ard on troublemakers

[img] [/img]

swarming muslamic baby robins dive bombing buck house

www.binnerstshirts.com

While it is true that some protests can cause disruption, the point about the CM [s]protest[/s] celebration is that it is [i] designed[/i] to create disruption. That is why people reckon it does cycling a disservice.

The police didn't want to stop the CM ride because it was a CM ride, but because it was in an area with a mass of foreign and British dignitaries, athletes and general representatives from most of the worlds nations.

There was a massive security operation in place to make sure that everyone was kept safe, the CM ride was a sideshow and a distraction to that. The ride could have gone ahead in many places within London, with many peoples blessing.

So with all the vociferousness against helmet wearing dished out by some elsewhere on here what they do if helmets were made compulsory?
Direct action,mass non helmet wearing rides,etc etcAnd if they were then kettled and locked up that would be fine I presume.You want trouble then you'll get trouble as already espoused on here.Just think they would be doing a disservice to all us helmet wearers and dragging the rep.of cyclists everwhere down....

While it is true that some protests can cause disruption, the point about the CM protest celebration is that it is designed to create disruption. That is why people reckon it does cycling a disservice

there really is no call for brief and insightful comments on here ...like that would make a good T - Shirt

Can you Binnerise it for us?

Can you Binnerise it for us?

[img] [/img]

To Chichester, and Beyond!!

😆

I see groundhog day is alive and well

Well... it is now

While I agree with your point, this just makes you sound like [s]an old man[/s] a person who can think.

yossarian: "Lalalalala I'm not listening lalalalalala..." 🙄

Mike the CM spokesperson's gone a bit quiet, hasn't he?

Maybe he got fed up with all the hilarious comments and pictures. Or maybe he has a job that doesn't let him sit in front of a computer all day and he has better things to do with his evenings.

Flattered to be considered a 'spokesperson' even though I'm not, I'm simply expressing my own opinions. And it became apparent that I was needlessly arguing with people who are ignorant of certain facts, and who seem to permanently inhabit this forum, arguing constantly about everything, it seems. Having spent far too much of my day off last week posting on here, I find it staggering that some people have the time to spend so many hours on here, day in day out. Do you not have jobs? Can you not get out for a bike ride or do something more productive with your lives?

Good to see a few more open-minded people joining the discussion, including the person with a first-hand account of the events of that evening. Hopefully now we may see a little more objectivity on here, although I won't hold my breath.

I find it sad that what could have been an interesting and helpful debate simply became an excuse for some to vent their obvious frustrations and anger towards something they have little or no understanding of.

I accept that CM needs to have a more positive public image, and could do more to promote cycling in London. For this reason, I and I hope many others will be attending the next event. And I hope some people on here might be motivated enough to do the same. I am sure there will be others who will just say sat at their keyboards ranting at a world they don't understand, and not making any difference at all.

Open-minded = people who agree with me 😉

mikeconnor at the next CM ride
[img] [/img]

[i]I find it sad that what could have been an interesting and helpful debate simply became an excuse for some to vent their obvious frustrations and anger towards something they have little or no understanding of. [/i]

You're new here, aren't you? 😆

(Taking a break from packing boxes and watching th'Lympics on my day off....)

Good to see a few more open-minded people joining the discussion

They would be the ones that agree with you right ??

🙄

.

(beaten to it by BinnersTeeshirts.com)

it became apparent that I was needlessly arguing with people who are ignorant of certain facts

Yes but, any attempts on our part to extract from you these 'certain facts' of which we're seemingly all ignorant proved fruitless. Sitting there fervently typing "you don't understand!" doesn't help us understand any better, you know.

From what you've written on this thread it appears to me that you're more interested in playing the martyr card than helping to dispel any myths and misunderstandings. And from what everyone else has written, it'd seem that CM's collective outlook isn't wholly dissimilar.

So, useful thread. I've learned quite a bit about a group I'd previously not come across. In your closing comment ^^ you said you wanted to make a difference; in this respect, rest assured, you already have.

Yes but, any attempts on our part to extract from you these 'certain facts' of which we're seemingly all ignorant proved fruitless. Sitting there fervently typing "you don't understand!" doesn't help us understand any better, you know.

I have countered claims about the 'type' of person on CM rides, explained about how many of them are actively involved in campaigning for better provision for cyclists, and suggested people actually go along and find out for themselves. Others have posted their own experiences (good and bad). What more can we do to help you 'understand'?

So, useful thread. I've learned quite a bit about a group I'd previously not come across.

Without ever actually having been on a London CM ride. Maybe thet's what you need to do then. Go along, find out for yourself rather than simply reading about it online.

Some of the comments on here remind me of teenage times, when certain individuals were experts on sex. not because they'd actually done it, but because they'd read about it and seen pictures in magazines.

* Other cities (outside the M25) are available

Is the comparison between CM rides and teenage sex that they both started off with utopian visions of a wonderful life-affirming experience, but disappointingly ended up involving being roughly manhandled by men with large truncheons under an East London underpass?

No, the comparison was with the way you and some others seem to think. You appear to have missed the point somewhat. Unsurprisingly given the nature of some of your previous posts.

Are you what they call a 'Big Hitter' on here? You do seem to spend an amazing amount of time posting.

Missing the point = not agreeing with me

How can I agree with someone who is ignorant of certain facts about an issue? That would be like leaving a child to wet itself just because it says it doesn't need a wee, when in fact it does.

Go along, find out for yourself rather than simply reading about it online

Instead, I shall go on a bike ride.

Being ignorant of certain facts = not agreeing with me

What more can we do to help you 'understand'?

You could perhaps answer some of the questions I asked? Radical, I know.

The answers are already on this thread. you could perhaps try reading all the posts? Radical, I know.

Just for the record, I never actually agreed with him. My beef was with the "those kind of people" comments.

Before I got into this thread I thought CM were all ****s. Then I realised that I had never talked to anyone who had been on a CM ride and I thought "Why do I have such strong feelings about people I have never met. That's not like me."

Then I realised I had gotten caught up in the whole groupthink mindset and was basing my opinions on what others thought despite the fact no one had had any direct experience.

So, I'm reserving judgement until I've been on a ride. I suspect I'm going to end up thinking they're all ****s but at least afterwards I'll be able to say so with authority.

[img] http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQgVsMly29Qe5hI_G7aTtGwB9SChpE1PuM8af_-XpQ_MPtB7ZA7qs4AmLi2 [/img]

....to the power of sick?

Junkyard, good point well made.... However......

That's going to very small print if I'm going to fit all that on a Teeshirt 😉