How good is that thought - that the Tories could well be about to get their jotters.
CANT WAIT,
It's rather unpleasant to think that Labour and Ed Milliband would be in...
http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/election-campaign
http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/anyone-on-here-voting-tory-why
Couldn't find somewhere to vent in one of the other threads?
It's rather unpleasant to think that Labour and Ed Milliband would be in...
With Nicola's hand right up his...
Lesser of two evils though.
Hope not, Labour and a SNP alliance would spell disaster for the country.
Fingers tightly crossed.
or ... in 48hrs a continuity coalition is in place and a wound-licking labour start the public bloodsport of a leadership stabathon. Can't wait.
Brilliant news - so we could be more like France, Spain and Italy all of whom have much higher unemployment / no economic growth and as a result are having to make further cuts to public services.
Unless you genuinely believe in a magic money tree the reality is that economic growth pays for everything. If the economy slows / shrinks public services have to be cut (as Labour have already committed to doing). The current deficit including pensions liability is around £2.4 trillion (more than the value of all the property in the uk). Is adding to that a smart or dumb idea?
I can see those happy little faces now. Chanting 'five more years!' outside CCHQ...
Are you evicting your parents ?
Yeah, things are going to change instantly... the skies will open up, Angels will sing and we'll all become richer !
lunacy.
The current deficit including pensions liability is around £2.4 trillion (more than the value of all the property in the uk). Is adding to that a smart or dumb idea?
This shows that you have no idea what you are talking about.
Lesser of two evils though.
This. Whilst the Tory's need to be ousted at almost any cost, I still remember Labour, and their compulsory ID card scheme they tried to launch. Never thought I'd be glad to see the Tory's come into power.
Plus, music is always better when the conservatives are in office. Why is that?
Cant think of anything better than another labour driven recession. Let the good times roll!
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I'm amazed that Conservative voters exist. To be so selfish and narrow minded is something I just can't grasp.
Labour may not be much better, but they aren't actively evil.
Hope not, Labour and a SNP alliance would spell disaster for the country.
Calm down, for your statement to be true the government would actually have to have the power to make significant changes. Which in reality they don't.
Labour may not be much better, but they aren't actively evil.
Sadly some actively are
oh, just imagine the disappointment amongst the lefties on Friday morning, the whinging, the wailing, the utter despair, the grey cloud that will descend across them when they realise the numbers dont add up, and that Ed has managed to spanner the ball into the crowd 😈
Labour may not be much better, but they aren't actively evil.Sadly some actively are
Tony Blair.
I find living in ignorance to be the best option these days
if Ed does get in then Boris will be leader of the opposition. that should make PMQ's fun
Blah blah, economy, blah blah, money, blah blah, I want MOAR stuff...
How about looking forward to a positive change for those less well-off than yourselves?
I really hope Labour, the Green Party and the SNP give the tories a good kicking.
Music is better when we have a tory government because there's more to be angry about!
The current deficit including pensions liability is around £2.4 trillion (more than the value of all the property in the uk). Is adding to that a smart or dumb idea?
[b]wanmankylung[/b]
This shows that you have no idea what you are talking about.
Possibly - and my figure is wrong for sure.
The 2013 / 2014 Whole Government accounts show net liabilities standing at £1.851 Trillion, or which £1.3 Trillion is unfunded public sector pension schemes. Current value of all UK property is around £5.7 Bn, so overall public sector debt is actually only equivalent to 31% of the value of every house in the country.
You are so nieve it is scarey.
If the tories are out it means you have Ed Balls and Alex Salmond running the country. You would seriously vote for that?! 😯
Well it's going to be an interesting few days that's for sure. Either way it's not going to be party time for the country.
Nicola Sturgeon is leader of the SNP, not Salmond.
They've actually been running Scotland pretty well for the last few years.
Current value of all UK property is around £5.7 Bn
Eh whit?
Deficit = how much you are borrowing every given period of time, debt = how far up to your eye balls in debt you are in total.
I have no issue with being in loads of debt as long as we can manage the repayments.
What I have an issue with is individuals getting obscenely rich off the back of increasing public debt. We need do something radical like pay a fair days wage for a fair days work. If employed people need their income subsidised by benefits then they are not being paid a fair days wage. If the business cant afford to pay a wage that lets their employees live above the poverty line without subsidy then it should be allowed to fail.
Nicola Sturgeon is leader of the SNP, not Salmond.
They've actually been running Scotland pretty well for the last few years.
That is very much a matter of opinion.
All of you who are 'worried' or 'scared' about the possibility/probability of a Labour-led government, what are you actually worried or scared about? You do know the world will still turn and the sky won't fall on our heads, don't you? You'll still be able to post on here about stuff that doesn't matter on Friday morning.
How about looking forward to a positive change for those less well-off than yourselves?
This. I don't really care about the economy in terms of business doing well, or defecits. So long as the poor are cared for, benefits are generous enough, the disabled aren't being shafted and healthcare is up to scratch I'm happy. That won't happen under a right wing government. It probably won't happen under a Labour government, but if people keep voting left wing then hopefully they'll start getting the message.
Nicola Sturgeon is leader of the SNP, not Salmond.
Don't fool yourself! 😆
They've actually been running Scotland pretty well for the last few years.
Have they really? Not running up a huge black hole worth of debt as is being widely reported?
Not running up a huge black hole worth of debt as is being widely reported?
Can you expand on this please?
And the immigration, hard working families are moving talent to more competitive countries, economy is deficit long term economic plan, more nhs managers are michael gove, asylum seekers on zero hours contracts waiting six months to get a benefits cheat. And the bankers well, they've got a top down inheritence tax from brussels in their first time buyers. You couldn't make it up.
When I lived in Scotland it was a generally pretty nice place to be under the SNP- while I don't support the idea of independence and am not a Scot the country was run to good social standards, prescriptions were free, eye tests were free, university was free- I felt well looked after.
Back in England it feels like a constant battle against the vulnerable and those with no money, driving the poor out of further education, making healthcare harder to obtain, ostracising the disabled. I don't see what the SNP are doing so wrong?
If employed people need their income subsidised by benefits then they are not being paid a fair days wage. If the business cant afford to pay a wage that lets their employees live above the poverty line without subsidy then it should be allowed to fail.
Which leads to all the employees being out of work and on unemployment benefits. Which costs more, do you think? Which option adds more to the economy?
Hope not, Labour and a SNP alliance would spell disaster for the country.
Yes, what we should have instead is the union run by a party which represents solely the affluent areas of one of its four countries. 🙄
Personally I'm hoping nobody gets a clear majority.
I do like a well hung parliament.
wanmankylung - Member
Can you expand on this please?
The latest Scottish government data also showed that that deficit as a share of Scotland’s GDP was nearly 50% higher than the UK’s, even including a geographical share of North Sea oil revenues, because of far higher per-capita public spending.
It's heartening to see that the Green Party is a good third in the poll on this site. I know that the people on here aren't exactly representative of the electorate as a whole, but I don't think that the poll results on TV and in newspapers are particularly representative either. Maybe there is hope after all? 😀
They can both do one,
All I have had through my letterbox this week is leaflet after leaflet from the smug ****s that represent Labour and the Tories telling me that I have got to vote for either of them or the whole thing is a pointless waste of a vote.
Effectively they are telling me that unless I vote for these bigoted arseholes it doesn't count, democracy is dead in the eyes of these self serving twunts.
Which leads to all the employees being out of work and on unemployment benefits. Which costs more, do you think? Which option adds more to the economy?
All of the employees out of work - nonsense. It's a wild idea, but how about renationalising a few things and providing work at a fair rate of pay that way?
Hope not, Labour and a SNP alliance would spell disaster for the country.
I really don't see what would be wrong with this. There's very little real difference between Labour and Conservative economic policies.
but how about renationalising a few things and providing work at a fair rate of pay that way?
And where is the magic money tree that would pay for this / are you personally committed to paying significantly more to use the same services?
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/mar/11/scottish-financial-deficit-40-higher-than-rest-of-uk-data-reveals
Did you just add 20% onto the deficit for fun?
are you personally committed to paying significantly more to use the same services?
Yes. If it means that things are fairer.
I'm quite looking forward to it all being over to end the politics conversations.. kinda like the Wimbledon effect, everyone is suddenly an expert, statistics being made up on the spot and arguments which achieve nothing, and no-one changes anyone's mind.
I know v little about politics, it doesn't interest me so I don't get involved, just find it annoying when people who know even less than me start lecturing the room as though they're some kind of expert on the subject..
/grumpy old man at 32
Edit: Should add this isn't me having a go at anyone in this thread, just what I've witnessed in real life..
or ... in 48hrs a continuity coalition is in place and a wound-licking labour start the public bloodsport of a leadership stabathon. Can't wait.
This
All of the employees out of work - nonsense. It's a wild idea, but how about renationalising a few things and providing work at a fair rate of pay that way?
But that's not what you said. You said if a company can't afford to pay its employees enough that they don't require income support then it should be allowed to fail. If the company fails, what happens to the people who work there?
That is what I said - you even quoted me.
are you personally committed to paying significantly more to use the same services?
Yes. If it means that things are fairer.
Then the poorest have their pay rise taken back from them paying for all the now higher prices.
There are many things not right but fixing them isn't simple.
Then the poorest have their pay rise taken back from them paying for all the now higher prices.
In that case their wages would have to rise even further. Redistribution of wealth and all that...
Whilst on the one hand I'm fascinated by the process, and would like the Tories and the coalition gone, nothing will change that much - certainly in the short/medium term.
We're beholden to a pointless and manipulative economic sensibility that worships the financiers like 2008 never happened. This is unfortunately bolstered by a press that knows how to simultaneously turn the working classes against each other whilst making enemies of anyone that genuinely has something interesting to say.
Columnists like Richard Littlejohn make my blood boil.
Eh? wanmankylungs finally been won over by one of the basic tenets of right wing free market economics? 😯
Sounds to me like he's proposing a socialist dream of less rich people and less poor people.
Sounds good to me.
That is what I said - you even quoted me.
Ok, I'll play along.
What should be renationalised and how much would it actually cost? I'm guessing that as a staunch SNP supporter* that you're also fully behind their devotion to the EU? So have a think about the TTIP and the Investor/State Dispute resolution mechanism contained within. Consider that ISD allows companies that have their profits affected by national laws to sue the relevant government for those losses. Then tell me how EDF [i]et al[/i] might react to news that the UK government is taking back control of the national grid, for example. Do you think it would be an inexpensive, economically sensible project that could only benefit the country's finances?
*actually, I'm just making wild assumptions here. I don't actually know for sure, but I reckon I'm probably not far wide of the mark.
+1 munrobiker 😀
Copied and pasted from elsewhere:
[i]Labour caused the ****ing deficit.
No one cares about the ****ing environment.
Labour privatised the ****ing NHS and it is under pressure from all the ****ing immigrants that ****ing labour let in.
The universities put up the ****ing tuition fees. And there are too many ****ing students all monging about whinging because they can't get a ****ing job that pays them their ****ing worth.
If you vote the incompetent set of ****s that were kicked out 5 years ago then you deserve all you ****ing get.[/i]
😀
I am against the TTIP and the ISD with any right to sue governments is just absurd. My standpoint is very similar to the SNP's
So you'll concede that "simply" re-nationalising industries isn't actually that simple in practice. I commend the intent, I just don't think in this current version of the world that it is the best solution to the problem.
wanmankylung - MemberDid you just add 20% onto the deficit for fun?
Wind your neck in, I quoted directly from the article.
I predict the New Boss will be the same as the Old Bosses.
I don't really care about the economy in terms of business doing well, or defecits.
Weird idea as without businesses doing well and a thriving economy we'd all be back in the stone ages and everyone would be in poverty.
Wind my neck in? You're the one quoting nonsensical articles.
I kind of want the tories to win simply as I can't stand the SNP and their supporters and want them to have as little influence as possible.
In my area its a straight fight between SNP and labour however, so labour it is.
Sure, they could be out in 48 hours - but they might not. The one thing the pollsters seem to agree on is that nobody can call this election.
I always love the rhetoric that comes about with elections.
"If X gets in the country is destroyed"
"If Y gets in the country has gone to the dogs"
What a load of tosh. If the Tories/Labour get in on Friday then we won't vanish into a black hole. The world will keep turning.
Saying that, if the Tories get in then a lot of poor people are going to get a whole lot poorer.
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I can't stand the SNP and [b]their supporters[/b]
You 'can't stand' people because of how they choose to vote?. What a strange little man.
Saying that, if the Tories get in then a lot of poor people are going to get a whole lot poorer
and
What a load of tosh.
There is nothing to choose between Lab and Con on the economy. Having lived through recessions 'caused' by both I come to the conclusion that despite what they say there is bugger all difference and they both have alot less control over it than they think they do.
Weird idea as without businesses doing well and a thriving economy we'd all be back in the stone ages and everyone would be in poverty.
Weird idea, assuming that the whole of human progress is due to business doing well and to thriving economies.
wanmankylung - MemberWind my neck in? You're the one quoting nonsensical articles.
Ah okay, so first *I* was wrong. Then I pointed out my quote came directly from the article, and apparently now it is the *article* which is wrong. Yet at no point do you provide any evidence to counter the points raised. Did you even look at the article? Thought not.
We're beholden to a pointless and manipulative economic sensibility that worships the financiers like 2008 never happened.
Odd that we have two major UK banks considering re-locating overseas - are they crazy? Where else would they be worshipped?
they both have a lot less control over it than they think they do.
I think they know they have little control, just they don't like to say it. Some really interesting work on network effects and why no governments of any colour can ever have as much control as they'd like to tell you.
Weird idea, assuming that the whole of human progress is due to business doing well and to thriving economies.
Feel free to name a country that has a bad economy and failing businesses, which doesn't' have high levels of poverty?
Feel free to name a country that has a bad economy and failing businesses, which doesn't' have high levels of poverty?
Feel free to name a country that has reverted back to a stone age culture and commensurate levels of material poverty?
edit:
Chances are that agiculture, art, architecture, religion and warfare all developed before anything remotely resembling our modern mixed market based economy.
It a shame that politics now means no more than how much money the next stuffed suit promises he can put in you pocket.
Odd that we have two major UK banks considering re-locating overseas - are they crazy? Where else would they be worshipped?
We are crazy for putting up with shite like that.
If it's a global economy, then it's a global economy - so at some point someone will relocate somewhere else when it doesn't suit. If that's the proviso for selecting a Government, then perhaps they should go now?
Argentina has gone through some grim times and Greece isn't looking to great right now, just to name a couple.
Ah okay, so first *I* was wrong. Then I pointed out my quote came directly from the article, and apparently now it is the *article* which is wrong. Yet at no point do you provide any evidence to counter the points raised. Did you even look at the article? Thought not.
My point was that even the article you quoted couldn't even make its mind up on the figure.
rone -back to the question, if we do have a system that "worships" financiers why do they want to re-locate. Are they crazy?
Seems to me that we are screwing about with banks on a massive scale. We require them to match more onerous regulatory standards (correctly) while at the same time lending more. totally incompatible objectives