[Closed] Petrolheads - car recommendation please

Suzuki Swift Sport is a good shout,

others to consider
Renault Twingo Sport
Fiat Arbarth 500
Fiat Panda 100

Yep, Arbarth was another on the shortlist. We sat in one at Car Fest the other weekend and it was quite a nice place to be.

Add Citroen DS3 to that (the 1.6 THP engine best but the others are all still fun) - forget previous Citroen build quality, these things are screwed together properly! Had mine for just coming up to a year, with 12,000 miles on it and absolutely no issues whatsoever, nothing has even looked like falling off! Great fun to drive, surprisingly spacious inside (much more than a Mini or the others above), looks good, and the THP is even reasonably economical (45mpg crusing on the motorway). Sorted!

The others on the list above are all good as well to add to that - the little Twingo is meant to be great fun.

dont ask petrol heads to find you a girls car...... my sugestion is mk2 golf with a 1.8t engine in...

Civic Type R?
Mk2 Golf GTI?
BMW 316/318 Ti?

Flying Ox, a friend has a Type R and it was horrific on the fuel economy. The other two suggestions were going through my mind though...

Panda 100bhp sport thing
Fiesta zetec S
Seat Ibiza Cupra/FR

Mk2 Golf GTI

This!

Might be tricky to find a good original one nowadays though.

Mk V GTI within range?

1. Suzuki Swift Sport.

2. Citroen DS3 - just drove one during my driving lesson (power steering might be a bit light, clutch and brake pedals might be a bit too close if you have wide feet but plenty of gadgets to play with)

You might want to try auto gear if you have not tried one before.

Mk V GTI within range?

Probably, but having test driven a couple last year I found them a bit uninspiring. I think I'd prefer something small that [i]feels[/i] fast than something that I have to drive fast to get some fun out of it. Does that make sense?

I used to have an Elise. It could go as fast as you like, but it felt fun and exciting even at what would be considered "pootling" pace. It also did 37mpg. I want that, but with 2 seats in the back and the ability to get around the Staffordshire Moorlands in winter with confidence.

Clio Cup?

Add Citroen DS3 to that (the 1.6 THP engine best but the others are all still fun) - forget previous Citroen build quality, these things are screwed together properly! Had mine for just coming up to a year, with 12,000 miles on it and absolutely no issues whatsoever, nothing has even looked like falling off! Great fun to drive, surprisingly spacious inside (much more than a Mini or the others above), looks good, and the THP is even reasonably economical (45mpg crusing on the motorway). Sorted!

The others on the list above are all good as well to add to that - the little Twingo is meant to be great fun.

I hired one when I was back in the UK and thought it was average.

To summarise, good handling and looks, poor build quality (full of cheap plastics, I pulled the 12v supply out of the dash removing the Tomtom power cable), noisy due to wafer thing plastic door cards and not enough sound deadening, not that economical due to short gearing, interior misjudged ergonomically and cheap, uncomfortable seating position mainly due to the steering wheel not being telescopic.

You want a warm not hot hatch as I feel the additional performance will be wasted on you yet you will pay through the nose in increased running costs.

Something like a Civic Sport as will fit adults in the back, the 500 etc are a little too small imo.

You want a warm not hot hatch as I feel the additional performance will be wasted on you

Why so?

tarquin - Member

... steering wheel not being telescopic ...

Suzuki wins hands down for me but then I only like Japanese cars, however Citroen DS3 [u][b]does[/b] [/u]come with telescopic steering wheel.

I will go auto gear if I were to buy one ...

Yeah, the DS3 definitely has a telescopic steering column. I'm really impressed with the interior - it's far better than any other small car in the same class I've been in (ok, maybe a bit biased as I own one, but most passengers I have comment on it being good) - although the one minor annoyance is there are no cupholders anywhere! The Short gearing does plague the smaller engined ones, but the THP has a 6 speed box which is miles better (in terms of gearing and not being floppy). I'll agree about the pedals being a bit close though...

Fabia vRS.

Old shape ones are dirt cheap, stupidly economical, good space/safety/comfort and HUGELY fun to drive.

Panda 100 is cool, never driven one but I've been bounced around in the passenger seat of one a few times. It's like a gokart with back seats and a boot.

I'd be cautious of the Swift. We looked at a low mileage one a while ago, and we couldn't believe the state of it. It had done 17k and the seats looked more like they'd done 170k. I'm not sure they're built to last. And the ride is pretty bloody hard - and that's from someone with a MK2 GTI in the barn.

I'd discount all the modern Golfs, they're just not particularly engaging.

In your boots, I'd look at BMWs - either a 3 or a 1 series. They're in a different class to VW and Audi in terms of handling.

Clio cup or Megane 225 for fun factor.

Or go for the R26R if the back seats are optional 😉

Audi TT 1.8t (225bhp or newer)
4 wheel drive, rapid, 37/38 mpg on a run.
'Back seats'. Hatchback.
I had one and the rear seats fold flat and you can get a bike and gear in the back!

Panda 100hp is absolutely hilarious at pretty much any speed, most of them still well below the legal limit. It's a cheap car so the interior is full of hard plastics, but that's part of its character / charm. As someone mentioned above it can be a bit bouncy (ours is affectionately referred to as the spacehopper by my other half).

Despite its bouncy revvy nature it's also surprisingly reasonable to drive distances on the motorway. The only downside is its relatively small fuel tank.

It's more practical than the 500 due to its boxy shape and rear doors. Although it's small you can get a surprising amount in the back with seats folded, and if you take them out altogether (a 5-minute job with a spanner) then it's like a small van... However, there's no getting away from the fact that it's a small car.

I stuck winter tyres on mine last year which took the edge of the handling (it ended up feeling a bit 'smeary' when the roads started to warm up) but it did make it pretty much unflappable in poor conditions. Because the wheels are so small (15") tyres etc are relatively cheap, so having a second set requires a bit less financial commitment.

I always feel that it's also very innocuous - no-one's ever going to feel 'menaced' by a Panda - and it (perhaps) has a bit less baggage than some other warm/hot hatches in terms of image.

Mazda 3 mps http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/reviews/mazda/3/mps-2007/
Civic type R
Mini cooper john works.

Civic type R

+

cheap to run

Really? 😯 A friend had a Type R and got rid of it (for a DS3) precisely because it was so thirsty. Driven like it's meant to be driven was giving him sub-20mpg.

Mazda 3 mps? I've read some terribly reviews, so that's out. Very torque steery apparently

Mini? Possibly, but there's just something about them that doesn't really float my boat. Ubiquity perhaps?

A real Mini (none of the crappy BMW stuff) with [url= http://vtec.minimania.com/honda-k-mini-conversion-kits.cfm ]a Civic engine?[/url]

I'd go 'up a size' to give you a good contrast to the wifes car so:

SX4?

Hora, the missus has an SX4. We love it since the visibility is so good for the kids in the back and it's nice and solid. It's the fact we love the SX4 so much which makes us want a Swift.

+ Type R

I had one for a couple of years and got around 35 on a run and 30 ish in normal mixed driving, however if your a big fan of using the second cam profile then yes 20 ish mpg.

However it's got a brilliant engine and gearbox and goes like a scalded cat.

Megane 225 cup
Seriously good car, I've had a few fast cars, and this was by far the best one to drive, handles like its got Velcro wheels

Twingo GT. Cheap to run, cheaper to buy than the RS model, but great fun. Apparently you can get it close to the BHP output of the renaultsport with some tweaking to ECU and adding some new hardware.

I love mine (got a great deal on the gordini trim version).
[img] [/img]

Cooper S (turbo not the supercharged one)

Great on fuel averaged 38mpg with a heavy foot!, good fun if you can get one with the mechanical LSD even better. Well built and will be worth something when you sell it!

I miss mine quite a bit!

Preza!

Ooooh yeah (in a Ferris Bueller style)

[IMG] [/IMG]

I don't wish to be known as a VW Golf bore (Ha!, too late for that) but what about something like [url= http://www.clubgti.com/showthread.php?255664-Golf-mk1-gti-for-sale-TSR-2-litre-engine ]MK1 Gti with 2.0L TSR Engine - £2800[/url]

Looks nice for that price and now't much will keep up with it on a twisty road

My MK2 Golf ABT 16v is at the end of [url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/vw-type-2-camper-resto-how-longpricey-is-my-piece-of-string ]this thread pages 1 and 2[/url] if you wish to be bored some more.

Despite spending well over £7k on it i doubt i'd get £4k for it if i sold it (never will though) unless someone really wanted it, but it can only go up in value so i see it as an investment......that's what i tell myself.

Clio 200, amazing fun but not the best on fuel. I've always had good experience with dealing with Renault as well.
I may be just a little bit bias though 🙂

Suzuki Swift Sport is a good car, but not cheap to run for what it is.
High emissions put it in brackets around the hotter 200bhp hatches. Fuel economy is barely more than 30mpg. First versions (around 2007) had tyres that were unique to Goodyear and were £110 per tyre.

As much fun as it was to drive I'd be looking at something faster than wouldn't cost much more to run.

Integra Type R if you go a bit older. Get a good one and it won't loose money.
Fabia vRS diesel. Not quite as much fun, but very frugal.
Megane 230. Test drove one and it was brilliant, not the best quality cabin, but not everyone cares about that.

That's from actually driving all those and owning the Swift & Integra. Not merely speculating 🙂

Hmmm, I think I'm even more confused than when I first asked this question 😐

stilltortoise - Member

Hmmm, I think I'm even more confused than when I first asked this question

😆

Stick with Suzuki Swift Sport. Simple.

There is no such thing as hot hatch that comes with fuel economy. It's like saying you want the F1 cars to run on half the fuel load ...

Suzuki Ignis sport, absolutely amazing little cars!
45 mpg all day long, 120bhp/ton, brilliant handling and the boot fits an upright Mtb with the wheels removed.
Genuine mini rally car, was designed to compete in the junior wrc, from memory I think it won!
Had one last year & stupidly sold it, currently looking for another!

we're picking up a Seat Ibiza Cupra on Friday.
Handles like a roller skate, 160bhp and diesel so 60mpg on a run!

All my petrolhead mates in the far east voted for Suzuki Swift Sport (but they prefer 4 doors) so there must be something good about it to warrant their support.

There is no such thing as hot hatch that comes with fuel economy. It's like saying you want the F1 cars to run on half the fuel load ...

True if you are talking petrol. But why pay the same amount to run a car with 120bhp as oppose to 180-200bhp.

Just to put this out there, as I do every time a petrol head what car thread comes up.

This is my motorway trip door to door mpg from my 330i at [b]260 bhp[/b] (so includes some town driving). Other running costs are inline with any modern car, and less chance of visits to the dealer due to turbo issues as the engine is normally aspirated and hard as nails

[img] [/img]

So owning a fastish car needn't break the bank. My fuel bill has gone up by 25-30% over owning a skoda diesel, but everything else is similar and less risk of a big bill IMHO...

So my suggestion, BMW 130i!

Lets face it if your going from a rwd 2 seater sports car to anything fwd its going to be dull in comparison.

So just get a bog standard car with enough power for over taking and leave it at that.

Lets face it if your going from a rwd 2 seater sports car to anything fwd its going to be dull in comparison.

Really? MX5 was one of the most boring cars I've owned. ITR and SSS both far more exciting to drive.

mtbmatt - Member

True if you are talking petrol. But why pay the same amount to run a car with 120bhp as oppose to 180-200bhp.

Yes, I was referring to petrol ... D'oh!

Anyway, you simply cannot have best of both world ...

My next buy will be a Toyota Landcruiser 4x4 4.7 litre turbo diesel monster tank that squash all maggots on the road. 😈

Really? MX5 was one of the most boring cars I've owned.

Which Mk Mx5 would this be then?

Lets face it if your going from a rwd 2 seater sports car to anything fwd its going to be dull in comparison.

So just get a bog standard car with enough power for over taking and leave it at that.

Sorry, thats horseshit.

Look at the range of hot hatches, some come with LSD and more than double the power of an elise / mx5. You have clearly never driven anything like this fast to come up with that statement

Which Mk Mx5 would this be then?

Mk1. Not that it really matters, as they are all 2 seater, RWD "sportscars".

Fiesta Zetec S.

Thread clossed. Better in many many areas and yet everyday transport.

Megane RS - cheap to run??

OP - Panda 100 and Fabia VRS appear to tick most boxes.

As well as the Swift that is.

Fabia? Avoid any VW product IMO.

Nissan Sunny/Pulsar GTI-R

Look at the range of hot hatches, some come with LSD and more than double the power of an elise / mx5. You have clearly never driven anything like this fast to come up with that statement

The thing is, it's not all about power, or straight line speed, or 0 - 60 times. As I said above, I test drove a GTi with DSG last year and it felt like the proverbial off a shovel, even compared to a Boxster S and an Elise. On paper it was slower to accelerate, but because the gear changes were so smooth and perfect, it flew. The thing is, it was boring. Fast, but boring.

I remember driving a battered old van belonging to my father-in-law. It wasn't fast by any measure, but it was involving and every input resulted in a satisfying output. It was fun. Whatever I get, it's got to be a pleasure to drive first and foremost.

Fabia? Avoid any VW product IMO.

It you want an involving drive that you have to work for and give you feedback then i would discount any modern hot hatch with esp, traction control, abs etc, and i understand what you say about the new DSG GTI's, far too heavy to be anything more than fun in a straight line for the first few times but dull as an IT seminar everywhere else.

I guess it depends on whether you want something that you can fettle with or something you just jump into and drive, i'm quite impressed with my mates civic type r (old style), really sweet handling little car and infinitely adjustable suspension for camber/caster/trail if you like that sort of thing and know what your doing.

Correction MODERN souless VW products

Surely a Volvo 480 is the answer.

something that you can fettle with or something you just jump into and drive

Absolutely the latter.

Surely a Volvo 480 is the answer.

In that case what about Honda S2000?, if you can get over the possible hairdresser jibs. front engined, rear wheel drive, fantastic chassis, very involving to drive, utterly reliable, jump in and go, no fettling needed, built and designed by the same team who built / designed the Honda NSX, very cheap 2nd hand prices for what is regarded as one of the best sportscars to come out of japan.

If i had to have another car i'd seriously consider one.

S2000? Nah, only 2 seats. One of the main criteria is space for kiddies in the back. I did actually look briefly at the S2000 when I bought the Elise. It does nothing for me aesthetically.

Could "cheap to run" be exchanged for "cheap to buy"?

If so, Celica ST4. Bombproof engine, 4 seats, can get 30mpg+ if you're careful.

I still reckon Civic Type R is the one though, especially if you don't want to spend weekends under the bonnet. My mate's missus has one, and it seems quite sedate on the granny cam. Whatever car you get, the mpg will be tragic if you boot it everywhere.

Mrs Fruitbat has one of these here Abarth Puntos [img] [/img]

It certainly is fun and not nearly as common as some of the other suggestions above.

Oooo nice

Oooo nice

clio 197 cup

Cooper S?
Actually scrap that, you need 5 doors with Kiddies, its a pain only having 2 doors.

Can't believe nobody has mentioned the Alfa Mito yet?

I've got the 135bhp but there is a 170bhp cloverleaf both of which will do real world 40mpg and are bloody good fun. Worth a test drive at very least.

Depends on your appetite for insurance and road tax, these are available pretty cheaply for what you get

Golf R32
Audi S3
Imprezza WRX (bit flash but fantastic driving cars)

I was 😮 at just how thirsty the WRX is in every day driving. Alot of owners say low 20's in easy/relaxed driving

Some good suggestions here. I think some of them (e.g. Golf R32) aren't going to quite hit the mark of what I'm trying to achieve, which is more money in the bank and seats for kids (OK, so the seats bit is of course sorted). I looked at the R32 before getting the Boxster. I actually quite liked it but it was expensive to run for "just" a Golf; the tax was £400 a year!

I've had the Boxster 13 months or so and have got 28mpg out of it. Most of those miles are open country B and A roads, since I'm lucky enough that I don't have to commute through busy traffic or towns and cities. I don't drive like it's stolen every time I get in it, but I make progress and love the way it drives...except when there's even a tiny smattering of snow on the ground (the rear wheels are about as wide as the English Channel).

The rear seats don't need to be big and comfortable for long journeys, but do need to be big enough to get booster seats in (not full-on child seats). It's only occasional short trips that the kids will be in there. I'd also like something that doesn't give me palpitations when it's time for a service or new tyres.

I think the problem with owning a car that is expensive to run is that it's stopped me doing other stuff l like to do, like nice holidays. I just need to balance the fun budget a bit more evenly 🙂

Clio Cup would be my choice.

I have a MK5 Golf 140 bhp diesel which after putting decent tyres on and having it mapped is pretty fun to drive. Can get between 55-60 mpg on longer drives and is only £135 a year road tax.

After moving to a more rural area I had to pick up a cheap 2nd car so I didn't leave my Mrs stranded whilst at work. I picked up a Mk4 Golf GTI 1.8T. S reg (1998) with only 98,000 miles and FSH for £1200 from Gumtree and to be honest it's in fantastic condition for its age and is completely standard. I feel it's better built than my newer Golf and tend to spend more time in the older car.

Had an Ibiza FR previously and can recommend that as a fun car to drive. Bit hard on the roads and always paranoid I'd get a flat if I went through a pothole in the winter.

Looking at your past history of cars, you obviously appreciate quality stuff, rather than just powerfull engined boring cars.

IMO I'd get some thing nice and boring like a Mondeo with enough power to make progress through traffic. ie 130hp is perfectly fine. I went from sports cars in to 'hot hatch territary cars' and they just are not the same and will always dissapoint.

Then with the pennies you have saved buy a nice toy. Well thats my plan anyhow, a nice Westfield or some thing to build at the weekend, and and safe sensible car for driving children/dogs around in.

FunkyDunc, I get the logic behind this, but I don't want a "project" nor do I want (or can afford) a third car. I like fettling with my bicycles, but I don't have the time or inclination to do the same with cars. I've already done the 130bhp Mondeo 🙂

I think you're bang on with the hot hatches though. As cars get more and more refined, with more driver aids, the faster you have to drive them to find them fun. That's not what I want. I'd rather have something less powerful but fun. This is why I'm thinking "warm hatch" like the Swift Sport.

What I really need is some test drives 🙂