Not aimed at you EhWhoMe aimed at tpbiker. Your question was fine so I answered it.
VED is based on your cars emissions
Strictly using the word "car" it may be, but if you replace that word with "vehicle" it isn't.
My van emits 46g/km CO2 less than my wife's car. They have the same revenue weight (2000kg), the same number of wheels and she pays £120 less than I do because most vans have the same VED (£275). Some Euro 4 and 5 vans pay less (£140) than my cleaner Euro 6 van because of Gov campaigns to encourage their use 10 or 15 years ago, TBF most of these will have been pensioned off now.
Large goods vehicles can reduce their VED by having either more axles or road-friendly suspension for a given weight because they hammer the roads less.
£1.65 to £1.80 range for ordinary diesel around here
TBH, petrol/diesel is still pretty amazing for what you get from it. Cheaper than beer, not that much more expensive than milk or pepsi or bloody stupid bottled water. It does make me wish I still had a 70mpg diesel rather than a 25mpg petrol but, oh well.
It's kind of doubly annoying though about the collapse of the LPG network though, we're still talking about viable alternative fuels while basically abandoning one we already had.
VED is based on your cars emissions
Not really, I currently drive a Caddy maxi and have mates who drive a VW Jetta and a Seat Leon. All 3 have the same 1.6 TDI engine and although my van will be heavier and not quite as fuel efficient they should have roughly similar emissions. I pay £210 a year, one of the lads pays £30 and the other pays zero despite having basically the same engine
hard coded in a meter so that you can be charged more per kw/h for charging your ev than general household usage.
For commercial charge points it's not hard coded, the costing element is handled by the back end systems and is completely variable so a casual user can be charged more than say someone who has an account or a staff member can get a preferable rate over a member of the public. Public charging is always going to cost more than charging at home, it's commercial not a service and the charging provider has to cover the cost of the charging unit (which is high at the moment as everyone is putting huge great things in with LED screens although that will change), the installation (including getting a cable to the charger which even if there is already a sufficient power supply in the car park is expensive, if a new feed is required it's even more). Then there's the running costs of the charger, maintenance, costs for running the back end system, costs for the payment provider and the cost of attrition as idiots reverse into the units. On top of all that the commercial provider would actually like a small margin as well please, so yes public charging is always going to cost a lot more than home charging, especially if it's an expensive rapid charger or in a good location where demand drives the cost above the base cost / margin of the above.
As for it being hard coded into a domestic charger, how's that going to work then, does the charging unit talk to the meter (they could even get SMART meters to talk to the energy providers and that was the whole point of them), I highly doubt it, what about people charging from a 3 pin plug?
@Flaperon ok, fair point but if the person doing 500 yards in the car doesn't do a lot of long journeys as well their net contribution isn't as much as someone doing many miles efficiently, pollution per mile is bad, total pollution is not so high. Not defending eejits doing 500 yard car journeys by the way, may their exhausts pipes rot prematurely.
@molgrips ok the tax is regressive (not quite as regressive as TJ wanting to charge people who cant afford off street parking for parking on the road).
Maybe Fuel duty is not the perfect tax but it's pretty good, not electronics needed (which can be over ridden and cost), no real collection costs and it's extremely hard to avoid, more so now red diesel is less available.
I really can't see how there will an equivalent for electric vehicles with some form of electronic box, I don't see domestic charge points being that sophisticated.
Electric vehicles won’t be on cheap electricity for long. I’ve been told by a charge point manufacturer that there is hard coded in a meter so that you can be charged more per kw/h for charging your ev than general household usage.
They can literally set it to what they like at anytime they please, it’s no different a fuel pump in that sense.
Drac I think the point is they are (possibly) proposing charging more for electrons pumped into a car from your house, versus your domestic use as a way of collecting tax revenue.
I saw someone putting £10 of petrol in on pump 3. I thought where are they going, pump 4?
I saw that joke on twitter too.
Drac I think the point is they are (possibly) proposing charging more for electrons pumped into a car from your house, versus your domestic use as a way of collecting tax revenue.
Maybe but it just sounds like one of those stories where someone has claimed something and as they work for a company it must be true.
I saw someone putting £10 of petrol in on pump 3. I thought where are they going, pump 4?
I heard it on the radio.
"I only put £20 in each time so i does not affect me"
Maybe but it just sounds like one of those stories where someone has claimed something and as they work for a company it must be true.
As I said above in my probably TLDR post above:
Commercial charge points will charge what they want and have lot more costs to cover compared to a home charge point.
Domestic charge points don't send you an electricity bill, meters do, so unless there is some hidden protocol that allows a domestic charge point to talk to your SMART meter there is no way for the government to know what you were using the electricity for. If there is I'd have expected it to have been big news.
Many SMART meters can't even communicate with your provider or the little display they come with so the idea they can communicate with a myriad of different chargers feels a bit far fetched.
Smart meters can determine the appliance used by consumption characteristics. Eg 3kw over 2 minutes will be a kettle etc etc...
I'd like to see a smart meter tell the difference between my car plugged into the domestic socket where it draws 9A and a 9A fan heater. It's not going to happen, and if it does I'll just charge direct from my PV. 🙂 Edit: and buy a power wall. Frankly trying to specifically tax the electricity used to charge cars at home is counter productive because it will result in people finding solutions worse for the grid than night charging on a cheap tarrif.
To be fair it doesn't need to
Car totts up all it's miles .
Ever year it's recorded at inspection.
X - y = bill.
Er… and how does that account from charging at multiple points?
and if it does I’ll just charge direct from my PV. 🙂
They'll start dipping your battery for yellow electricity
Car totts up all it’s miles .
Ever year it’s recorded at inspection.
You know how many German cars are "clocked"?
These ideas fail at the first hurdle, the government that applies them losing the next election. "Touche pas à ma bagnole" - don't touch my car, is one of the things politicians ignore at their peril.
More seriously, road charging using ANPR/telematics.
One of the major issues with trying to solve the transport issues edukator.
ANPR, no chance, the cost of that would be immense and ANPR is hardly foolproof. Plus the attrition rate of vandalised cameras would be immense, a ladder and a spray can is all you need.
Macron proved it the hard way, TJ. The start of the gilets jaunes was a few cents on diesel and the previous gouvernement's attempt to tax trucks using cameras on gantries resulted in truckers bringing traffic to a halt - they were never even used but I'm sure you're right about them being vandalised if they ever had been turned on, stumpyjon.
Ebike, ebike, ebike!
Fine, if I could afford one - however, it would take me at least an hour to get to work, requiring me to leave home before 5.30 am, and I’d be getting home around 7.30 in the evening, or later, after a 12-hour working day. The public transport available would take longer, as there’s no direct links available, and the cost would be prohibitive.
One advantage now, is that while I’m working longer days, my shift patterns mean I’ll actually be working fourteen-fifteen days fewer each month, which means I’ll actually be driving 420 miles less a month, which means significantly less fuel used, saving me quite a lot of money. Plus I’ll be able to spend more time during the summer chilling out in the garden.
If my calculations are correct, I’ll be driving 2100 miles less a year, which could save me over £350 just in fuel; a win all round, really.
ANPR, no chance, the cost of that would be immense and ANPR is hardly foolproof. Plus the attrition rate of vandalised cameras would be immense, a ladder and a spray can is all you need.
They said that about speed cameras. There's plenty of cameras used already. Congestion charge, bus lanes, smart motorways, tunnels etc.
Telematics are a thing in new vehicles. All our new vans have it, although it's not used by our company.
Just been working out my commuting costs.
It's a 60 mile round trip so it's about £1900 a year in fuel alone.
I can use a bus and cycle which is only viable with a £1200 a year annual pass, otherwise driving is cheaper.
Obviously the dearer the fuel the more I'd save but it's a big commitment to make, especially having to mess about with catching the bus for a 5am start and late night finishes.
It's a tough choice to make.
Mate of mines lives in a town. Born and bred there.
Police stationed him in the next town.
He looked at using public transport for a day shift.
Leave at 19:00 the night before get the bus to town . Have a kip somewhere .... Do his shift. Get home off the bus at 18:30 see his kids eat some tea and head back out to travel for the next shift at 19:00.
We are only talking 15 miles here.
You know how many German cars are “clocked”?
No .... But then as I don't live in Germany is not my business to care.
I do find it funny when folk have no answer to points raised so make irrelevant personal attacks in stead
Since that was aimed at me, I’ll say that was not a personal attack against you in the slightest. I don’t have the slightest issue with you owning a few flats. Nor tbh do I particularly care that much about whether folks do or don’t drive their cars to work
All I did was express an opinion, I stand by it. I’m sure you don’t agree with it, frankly I don’t care if you do or not. And more importantly I’m not in any way remotely interested in arguing with you about it.
Just don’t start making out I’m making some personal attack on you please
Norway has telematics now that charge you for entering towns, and for paying for parking. You can stay outside the system if you want, but in reality noone does because you really pay for it if you drive anywhere regularly. I believe we'll be metered for amount of driving pretty soon, but I don't recall the planned date.
I was not the only person to see it as that and it was obvious. You are also wrong because1) I am not removing a property from housing stock and 2) I let it for significantly less than a mortgage on the property would be
Spin it how you like tj, but don’t complain when people use their car to commute because they can’t afford to live local, when you are part of the problem
Then Kelvin posted
Don’t rise to it TJ, they are baiting you into an irrelevant discussion
Now if I were holiday letting or letting it at more than mortgage price you would have a poion
To reiterate..
And more importantly I’m not in any way remotely interested in arguing with you about it.
Just been working out my commuting costs.
It’s a 60 mile round trip so it’s about £1900 a year in fuel alone.
Bloody hell!
Roughly worked out my wife’s commute of 44 mile a day is about £790 a year. A big jump from this last few months and huge to previously as it was free.
Of corse I know need to equate my commutes but at least I can claim that back.
Roughly worked out my wife’s commute of 44 mile a day is about £790 a year.
You must get fantastic mpg from the car. Either that or my maths is terrible!
It’s an EV sorry should have been clear.
Ah, makes a bit more sense then!
Price of a barrel of oil back under $100.00, so either traders think that other sources are available, or going to be available soon, they don't care about Russian suply, or they think war will be over sooner rather than later.
Do we think it'll take the forecourts a bit longer than they did to raise prices, before they lower them again?
Absolutely! They rise the price the second they can, regardless of how much less they paid for what's already in their tanks and they leave it high for as long as they can get away with. I remember an interview years ago during the "tanker blockade crisis" (maybe 2001/2?) and a petroleum industry representative said that petrol at any particular petrol station is determined purely based on competition and "what the market will bear". If they can get away with it, they do. Petrol companies are no more interested in giving us a good price than newspapers are interested in giving us unbiased "news".
If they can get away with it, they do. Petrol companies are no more interested in giving us a good price than newspapers are interested in giving us unbiased “news”.
see also any company that trades commercially in our capitalist society. The company I work for, the company you work for. They all do it.
Supply. Demand.
Unless the government steps in and 'demands' a reduction in fuel price, the fuel companies will charge what they feel the market can bare. It's simple (if unfortunate for the bulk of us) economics.
theres a bizzarre phenomenon at play with fuel prices, that also coincidently occurs with bike suspension travel.
petrol goes from 1.35 to 1.70. "OMG petrol has doubled"
trail bike is 130 travel "cant ride that on these hard trails, need a 160mm enduro bike, its like twice as good".
The "1" seems to be ignored, especially when verbally its "one - thirty"
Its been 1 pound something since before I started driving. MTBs have had 100mm minimum (or zero) travel since I started riding. Its easy to mentally ignore that first digit.
But the man maths that comes from doing so can lead to issues.
Is there a tracker anywhere that shows the price of oil compared to the price of fuel?
Things could get a lot worse yet...
I can use a bus and cycle which is only viable with a £1200 a year annual pass, otherwise driving is cheaper.
The business park where I work only managed to develop the land because of a number, one of the things they had to do, was make it a 'sustainable transport hub' place as its out of town,but not exactly in the middle of nowhere.
They did a survey recently where you compared your car commute to available bus journeys to highlight the bus being cheaper, using season tickets. There were no cheaper journeys. Even with a 2 litre diesel car, driving 4.5 miles to, and 4.5 miles home, the car was cheaper. Nuts. Just as well I cycle when I'm in the office.
I think you guys up there ^ have just discovered what is known in economics as prices being 'sticky downwards'
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/sticky-down.asp
Economist - someone who sees something working in practice and wonders if it can be made to work in theory.