MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
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So, I have finally agreed that we can get another dog for the family. After a brief and difficult relationship with a rescue greyhound we are decided on reverting to a cavalier king charles spaniel, what we had until around five or so years ago.
Until, that is, doing some homework on these and it looks that with being bred to achieve the show standard, the consequence is now that the poor things have developed SM, an awful scratching diesease caused by the skulls being too small for the brain and leaking out of the skull into the spine. This causes the symptoms of a phantom scratch and ultimately, severe pain where the only option is to put them to sleep.
This seems a new problem due to breeding for show standard and aside from an MRI scan, there is no genetic marker to indicate which ones are vulnerable.
So, if your a cav owner, any advice here?
If not, what dog that's good with kids?
I am v reluctant to now get a cav and support what seems to be a kind of cruel situation.
Kon-un-drum.
Springers are great with kids, and a working dog shouldn't have the problems that a show dog can have. Ours is softer than a soft thing, no pain receptors at all, just wants to play 24/7. Pretty much Any gun dog will be good with kids, maybe a bit loopy though.
We bought our dog through the Kennel Club web site
Make sure you do your home work and see medical records
of the parents of the puppies.
What dogs good with kids
We bought a Golden Retriever
[url= http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/ ]Kennel Club Web Site[/url]
Second the springer. Ours is mental, but in a fun way. Great with our 4 year old daughter and other dogs, even at 7 he just wants to play all the time
A friend of mine has one and has had loads of problems. Skin problems, digestion problems, joint problems and that brain condition as well. It has turned the dog into a very grumpy, lazy, unhealthy dog.
We have a collie and a black lab, collies are great but not for everyone, the lab is a great dog as well, very good with the kids and a very nice natured fun dog to have in a family. Have you thought of a lab?
Innes
Spaniels are fantastic but I reckon a lot of people don't give them enough time and end up with destructive albeit lovely dogs.
My good mate who's a vet was telling me that pretty much 100% of the CAV line is in danger of the brain germination and that he wouldn't touch one with yours. Lovely dogs but it seems wrong to buy one.
You could join the STW Border Terrier club. Ever increasing numbers.
Working Cocker or a Field Spaniel might be better than a Springer, which might be too full on. Both smaller and slightly more placid (as much as any working spaniel can be called placid), and like all Spaniels love being around people of any age to the point of clinginess.
slainte 😀 rob
Innes...does your mates dog have the scratching syndrome then?
I thought that by that point it was time to say goodbye.
I would say a Cocker Spaniel would be good around children, definitely not a Springer! Gundogs rock. 8)
We had two of them and a Bassett, the Blenheim one below lived to a very rare 15 years old (in 1st picture) when I had to put him to sleep as his legs had gone. The second one the ruby (all brown) was put to sleep at 12 and within months of the Bleheim as his intestines had collapsed, we lost the bassett at 12 years and again within months of the others. When we were down to one dog we got a show springer who is an excellent dog and when the Ruby died we got a cocker to go with the springer. I think all of them are great dogs to train and excellent with kids, it's down to how much effort you put into training them more than their breed.
The springer and cocker are way more fun than the KCC's and are easier to train, the cav's could never be trusted off the lead and were not as hardy either. Both had heart murmur's whereas the spaniels are hard as nails and full of bounce.
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The dog had scratching a long time before the brain thing was mentioned. The vet seems to be making a lot of money out of them, specialist skin treatments, special diet, there has been no mention of putting the dog down.
a lot of pedigree dogs have inherent problems due to strict breeding which is a real shame. Alsations with hips,bulldogs with breathing etc etc. I have a malamute which is ace with kids but too big and strong for what you are after I expect. Not being condescending here! Have a look at a caucasian shepherd - thats my next mutt! Dont know what I would go for in your situation but the usual applies - check the breeder out,see the parents etc,etc.
My folks have had several dogs over 20 years or so. Only one of them was pedagree. That was the only one to have the phantom scratching thing you mention. It was also the only one which was of a nervous disposition. The rest were all really well natured. I believe a lot is to be said for taking an interest in the bahaviour of the bitch the pup came from before making the plunge and taking a pup...
[i]My good mate who's a vet was telling me that pretty much 100% of the CAV line is in danger of the brain germination and that he wouldn't touch one with yours[/i]
This is a bit scaremongery I think but yes, the problem is getting worse.
I think the general consensus is that around 50% of the current cavalier population has Syringomyelia to some degree. I've never come across one when I've talked to Cavalier owners.
Our Cav is 3 now and she's not shown any signs. It's a pity because they're such wonderful dogs, you couldn't ask for a dog to give you more love. They're also a bit neurotic and terribly clingy at times.
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[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/53067724@N00/3023456134/ ]ruby2[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/53067724@N00/ ]Jon Wyatt[/url], on Flickr
I'm a big fan of dogs but really don't like KC spaniels.
snivelly skinny little snuffly snorty things.
Cavaliers rock. The Kennel Club are prize tw@s, however. Find a breeder who breeds proper, big, working Cavs if you can. My last, sadly departed Cavalier was just such a type, from a breeder in Devon (Forget the name at the moment). Proper sporting dog. Worked to guns, but was equally happy curled up snoozing quietly at home.
my parents have had pedigree and non-pedigree west highland white terriers - the non-pedigree one lived until 16, the pedigree until 13 - both good ages for dogs. both had skin complaints common for the breed and both died due to failing rear legs
@CFH...
"working" cavs. I thought they were ll bred as toy dogs to the breed standard?
Was it Peakstone puppies?
No, there are folks out there who don't agree with the KC breed standard, as it goes against what a Cav really should be! (Which is a dog strong enough to take duck, but at the same time enough of a lapdog to [s]hog[/s] warm the bed!)
LOL...did my phone auto correct it to "germination"? I meant "herniation".
Anyway, I'm just going by a qualified professional who deals with more dogs than the rest of us could shake a stick at.
As for your spouting bollocks as ever flashy, it's breeders over breeding to a standard that are prize tw@s. A fact you are fully aware of. I was waiting for you to arrive on the thread to defend a breed which has unfortunately become more or less:
snivelly skinny little snuffly snorty things.
Unfortunately, it's a bit true. "Working dog" my arse. 😆
EDIT:
(Which is a dog strong enough to take duck, but at the same time enough of a lapdog to hog warm the bed!)
Please, stop soon...
@BigThunder.
I nearly took the plunge on a cav and you suggest a caucasian shepherd!!!!!! 😯
So, in essence, you want a smallish dog that's good with kids but reasonably active...
Might I suggest a "small" labradoodle - I know four of them well, two black and two golden/blonde. Every one of them is an excellent dog. Three of them are with young kids in the family and are fine.
The big ones can be a bit big though. 😯
good old springer cant go wrong always fun round the house and usually good with kids failing that heard good things about stafs (not my ideal dog) if brought up right and they normally love kids from what iv'e seen.
Sprocker or working cocker if you have to go for a pedigree; I have a rescue springer myself, and he is very hard graft. But worth it.
I grew up with Ckcs, they re great with kids. Grandparents have had 6 and my parents 4. My mother has a 16 yr old one which is very rare.
Friends have 3 and all have developed the brain issues at about 30months. They're really upset about it. That's what you get IMO for using epupz!
Problems: kidneys, brain thing, heart mumours, eye issues, skin, bowels.
Although my parents still have one they have moved onto working cockers as they wanted hardier more active dogs. However they both have stomach issues and need special food.
My springer has no issues, 9 eats anything no problem. Probably not as safe with kids but that's only because he can be excitable and sometimes wants the babies toys so we make sure they aren't left alone even for a second or two.
Rockhopper70 - caucasians would be great with kids.... Until they get stuck in their teeth! Just a wee bit fun!
Might I suggest a "small" designer mongrel
FTFY DD. The OP is [I think quite rightly] worried about show dog breeding and you've suggested a cross that was produced because it 'might' look cute..... hmmmm. 😐
Rockhopper - If you want a smallish dog to take out walking, riding etc. a working cocker would be perfect, but pricey for good parents.
Golden retriever for reliability and great all round fun. Flatcoat retriever for the bit of spice!!
I have both and its a nice mix!!
hmmmm.
Where did I say it might look cute? FWIW, doodles are one of those hybrid/mongrel breeds that have worked well in recent years. Every one of them I know is a lovely dog. Good natured. Pretty well behaved (prob more down to the owners though). I'd hardly describe them as cute. Nor do I have one myself...which is the usual STW criteria for suggesting a breed. The OP wants a dog that's good with kids (and judging from a liking for KKCs) wants something small to medium sized.
OP, have you looked at Spanadors? They're lovely too. Also, Cavachons are lovely too. 🙂
In my opinion perpetuating some breeds is tantamount to animal cruelty. So many breeds have characterisics that are in no way beneficial and in a lot of cases actually cause the animal suffering or discomfort.
Bull dogs have a severe underbite, short faces causing breating difficulty, succeptible to being overweight.
Their heads have become so large as a result of in-breeding that the majority are unable to give birth naturally and puppies must be whelped by caesarean section but as long as people keep finding them cute then who cares eh.
Rhodesian Ridgeback's ridge is considered a form of spina bifida - the healthy ridgeless pups without this defect are often euthanized.
Get a cross breed or a working dog from a reputible breeder. Sorry about the rant.
After decades of wanting a dog, we picked up ours from the Dogs Trust on Friday. 😀 He's a Tibetan Terrier cross, not sure what he's crossed with though. He's looks fairly TT, although he looks like he's been trimmed by Stevie Wonder - actually, he looks a lot like hairy Maclary. Or a baby womble.
Lovely little chap, loves people and other dogs (got to train him to reign in his enthusiasm as not everyone appreciates it...), lots of energy, and he's a nice size. We're hoping we can train him to walk nicely by the bikes, otherwise we'll have to get one of those bike trailers! 😆
Where did I say it might look cute?
I didn't say that you had suggested it because it was cute.... I meant that the two dogs where probably originally bred because the outcome might look cute, rather than for it's behavioural nature, which I think is wrong.
Get a cross breed or a working dog from a reputible breeder. Sorry about the rant.
Seems fair enough to me.
Seem to be popular dogs though aren't they...for cross breeds?
Seems fair enough to me.
So which cross-breeds are acceptable in your world then?
In my world? None 🙂
To be honest I can't see what the point is in creating 'new' breeds, but in reality I guess if you want to pay serious money for a mix then you should be free to do so. It's just not my cup of tea.
Springer's rock. Here's Mabel trying to get just a litle bit warmer 😯
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So, we have given back word to the cav breeder as I am really struggling to think how the kids would cope with losing another dog early should the worst develop and I am not entirely comfortable with supporting a trade that seems to have caused this problem for the breed. I might be right, I might be wrong and I am sure you lot will put me right!
We have reserved and booked to view a black bitch miniature labradoodle pup due to be ready mid-jan.
To be honest I can't see what the point is in creating 'new' breeds, but in reality I guess if you want to pay serious money for a mix then you should be free to do so. It's just not my cup of tea.
I thought one of the points of the cross breeds was to try and remove some of the genetic issues of selective breeding mutts (and reduce malting). Personally I would be after a healthy dog, over a pretty/deformed dog any day.
I don't get the pure breed thing, mine is crossed with a Spinone and when you meet some Spinone owners/breeders they cannot believe anyone would taint the breed by crossing one with anything, however until they realise what he is crossed with every one of them have commented on what a great/pretty/healthy looking dog he is.
Why the fascination/obsession with designer dogs from breeders? DOg homes are filling up with dogs people can no longer afford to keep due to job loss, so go and do yourself and a dog a favour and get a rescue dog. Less visits to the vet's and insurance bills will be cheaper too.
DOg homes are filling up with [s]dogs[/s] staffies
🙂
(only teasing)
No seriously, rescuing a dog is far better - but some peoples' circumstances dictate that a puppy is better - young kids, other animals in the household, etc.
In a perfect world, I'd have got a rescue but our circumstances just didn't allow. 😐
Why would a puppy be better than a house trained, socialised rescue dog? There are cute looking 2,3, 4 + year old dogs too.
Why would a puppy be better than a house trained, socialised rescue dog?
If you already have cats in the house.
Not all rescue dogs are as "socialised" as the charity would have one believe. Don't get me wrong, I'd rescue one in a heartbeat if I could - just not for me when I got one this time around.
Why would a puppy be better than a house trained, socialised rescue dog?
People don't like to risk their children with a dog with an unknown history, and sometimes they don't want a *tough man* dog.
Also people always wonder why it was given up in the first place, especially considering the strong bond between someone and there dog.
Sad fact is 90% of rescue dogs are staffies/mastiffs or rottie crosses, with an unknown history, so people are nervous of getting them as if they **** up the dog will end up being destroyed.
Richc makes some good points as to the reasons to get a puppy over dog.. A bit like a new car, you know where you stand with it. A 2nd hand dog/car, you take a risk with the history, but sometimes you can get a good one.
I suggest a working dog, Springer, Cocker, Lab, they can be great, if you put in the hard work with training, but that goes for any breed of dog really.
I would always go with a puppy and put the hard work in.. That's what I helped with, and it's a winning Springer (pays for her own food in the summer 😉 )
Ok, I take your points. We got the best of both worlds when we got 2 puppies of our friend's rescue dog! Officially we had to adopt then from the rescue home even though the mum was pregnant when our friend adopted her and the home didn't know!
Whoooooaaaa there.
Check my original post. I have had a rescue greyhound but the day it turned on me I thought I had better give it up before it tore the face off one of my children. So less high and mighty please.
Rescue dogs have that unknown quantity and, quite frankly, it's a risk that I don't want to take again if it's allright with you.
We have a springer and a cocker - had the springer for nearly 11 years (since I was 10 and my brother 5!), he was (and is) great. We "rescued" a cocker a couple of years ago and as much as we all love the springer my parents have both said if they could go back that's what they should have got to start with as he's slightly less hard work 😛
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cross breed all the way for me, all pedigree dogs are massively inbred, the clue is in the title. Some more dangerously inbred than others.
My Kea is 3/8 greyhound, 1/4 whippet, 1/8 bedlington, 1/8 boarder collie and 1/8 bearded collie... 100% brilliant.
cross breed all the way for me, all pedigree dogs are massively inbred, the clue is in the title.
garbage, as previously discussed. proper research is required any time you want to buy a dog. back yard breeders can be avoided.
I suggest a working dog, Springer, Cocker, Lab, they can be great
I don't know if I would agree with this, as whilst they are easier to train, the also need a hell of a lot more exercise/stimulation, as they have been selectively bred for their intelligence and stamina, which makes them a bugger to wear out, and a dog which isn't tired and a bit bored can be destructive and difficult.
So unless you want to do a lot of training/walking, which would be at least a couple of hours a day, when they are young (upto 5-6) you could find that a bit of a nightmare, especially if you have other commitments.
I wanted a dog for running/cycling/mountain walking etc, and mistakenly thought I wanted a working dog for this, but I didn't and I have to walk mine for at least 2 hours a day, unless I want to watch him empty the contents of the house out onto the lawn.
I don't see why you shouldn't get a pedigree to be honest, if you research breeders properly.
Nothing against mongrels at all, used to have one.
I don’t agree with the logic that crossing Breed X that may have numerous health issues with Breed Y that may also have numerous health issues = one healthy dog with no health issues a little difficult to come to terms with.
Or that crossing one breed with another automatically means you get the best of both worlds and not the worst? Labrador Poodle crosses (at least the ones ive met at agility) seem to be quite a handful, so big and powerful, and a bit wired.
Where are the stats that support this theory that mongrels are healthier?
how do mongrels stack up against many breeds that live to well into their late teens?
Does this mean mongrels live into their 20s?
And what genes if any are responsible for it?
What about other factors in longevity such as health tested breeding stock (are the parents of mongrels all health tested?)?
Size – smaller dogs tend to live longer, leaner dogs tend to live longer
Environment
Medical care
Etc etc etc
So how are the variables broken down in order to demonstrate that mongrels do in fact live longer and healthier lives than pure bred animals?
I would be interested to know.
Are there stats to show the average age of a mongrel as there are for purebreds?
Pure breed dogs suffer due to lack of genetic diversity, limited gene pools don't help a species and usually lead to there extinction.
So whilst your may be breeding one apparently healthy dog, with another to fine tune certain attributes you are increasing the risk of unwanted side effects, as we simply don't know what genes are linked to what.
For example, who would have thought that spot density and size in dalmatians is linked with deafness, or that breeding foxes for tameness causes them to change menstruation cycles and fur colouration.
Its well worth reading the greatest show on earth, if you want to find out more about about gene pools and there impacts on a species as this is a very well researched area, and pedigree dogs are used for reference a lot as they provide excellent data on restricted gene pools due to the artificial genetic islands they effectively live on.
Mongrels get around that as there gene pool is pretty much limited to every dogs of the opposite sex that isn't neutered and they can catch; so they have a smaller chance of the less desirable genes surfacing as there gene pool is so much bigger.
As for information on do they live longer this site has some stats
http://knol.google.com/k/canine-health-dog-lifespans-which-breeds-live-longest-and-why
[quote=rockhopper70][b]rockhopper70[/b]
We have reserved and booked to view a black bitch miniature labradoodle pup due to be ready mid-jan.
We have a 17 month old medium doodle. He's a lovely dog, with a superb temperament.
Great with the kids, and can either be as lazy as you like, or completely full on and nuts. Does have a very strong prey instinct for birds though (naturally, since he is basically a gun dog).
Very smart breed, easy to train & loyal, if a little aloof at times (poodle trait).
What breeder are you looking at?
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