[Closed] Party Wall agreement after building started

Yes, it's possible to get an Award agreed after work has started.

Appoint a surveyor - your costs should be borne by the building owner anyway under the Act.

There is a limited line of case law that says that failure to comply with the Act gives rise to a cause of action in damages but in any event the measure of loss will essentially be what you have lost by their failure i.e. an agreement to put right any damage, so it doesn't really make any difference to what you will recover, which will be the cost of any necessary repairs.

Appoint a surveyor

Does anyone actually do this? Neither myself of any of my neighbours have for extensions etc (all terraced houses), BC come and inspect everything, so it's very unlikely anything awry will happen.

Personally I wouldn't rush to get all legal and start upping their building costs. Keep an eye it, makes sure they aren't a bunch of cowboys and stay on good terms with your neighbour. Its unlikely go wrong and if it does you, the builders, and the neighbour should all have insurance.

We have started on our extension, my neighbour has asked for things on his side to be done a certain way, it hasn't cost me any more and he is chuffed to bits. Just handshakes.

One way is to take a photographic record of the wall and house, date it and chat through with neighbour, so if any damage in future you (or the neighbours ) should know if it was preexisting or not.
This actually protects the builder, neighbour as well. Keep it friendly if you want to and just explain about party wall act,  guides on line for ref.

Does anyone actually do this? Neither myself of any of my neighbours have for extensions etc (all terraced houses), BC come and inspect everything, so it’s very unlikely anything awry will happen.

Building control has nothing to do with party wall issues. You know the saying, hope for the best, plan for the worst? Well, getting a party wall agreement drawn up is part of planning for the worst. Hopefully nothing happens, but if it does you have a full schedule of condition so that a) the adjoining owner can be compensated if any damage occurs and b) the building owner isn't taken to the cleaners when the adjoining owner claims for masses of pre-existing damage.

Personally I wouldn’t rush to get all legal and start upping their building costs. Keep an eye it, makes sure they aren’t a bunch of cowboys and stay on good terms with your neighbour. Its unlikely go wrong and if it does you, the builders, and the neighbour should all have insurance.

The building owner's insurance is unlikely to cover damage caused by his contractor, provided of course he complied with his policy and notified his insurers first. A contractor's insurance may not extend to damage to an adjoining building in the course of the contract works, or they may not even have insurance (it happens more frequently than you think..), and having an Award in place can really assist the adjoining owner's insurers in dealing with things quickly.

Of course, you could just ignore it, in the same way that you can ignore servicing your car - think of it as preventative maintenance and hope you don't need to rely on it.

And, to make the point again  - IF YOU ARE AN ADJOINING OWNER THEN YOUR COSTS ARE PAID FOR BY THE BUILDING OWNER.

Building control has nothing to do with party wall issues.

Indirectly they do, e.g. they ensure that footings near a boundary (or anywhere else) are ok etc and that any structural work is safe etc etc.

Of course, you could just ignore it, in the same way that you can ignore servicing your car – think of it as preventative maintenance and hope you don’t need to rely on it.

Pretty rubbish analogy, cars do need servicing; you don't need to appoint a Party Wall surveyor as 99.5% of the time nothing needs doing.

And, to make the point again – IF YOU ARE AN ADJOINING OWNER THEN YOUR COSTS ARE PAID FOR BY THE BUILDING OWNER.

Why force unnecessary extra cost on your neighbour?

Indirectly they do, e.g. they ensure that footings near a boundary (or anywhere else) are ok etc and that any structural work is safe etc etc.

Only for Permanent Works, they specifically look at the building only anyway and not adjoining structures and they take no liability.

For the sake of a few hundred pounds on an extension that will be costing tens of thousands I think you'd be mad not to politely insist on formalising it. That the neighbour hasn't notified the OP wouldn't fill me with confidence at all, what other short cuts are they or their contractor taking? Insurance?

No, that's fine Footflaps.

You're obviously the expert here, you go round telling everyone it's fine to ignore the statutory regime in place to deal with this.

Who's your professional indemnity insurance with, just out of interest?

And, to make the point again  – IF YOU ARE AN ADJOINING OWNER THEN YOUR COSTS ARE PAID FOR BY THE BUILDING OWNER.

I think the point being made is that most people are friends with their neighbours (at least until things go wrong) and would rather not start getting solicitors and surveyors involved costing hundreds of pound if they don't have to.

Why force unnecessary extra cost on your neighbour?

Everything is fine and friendly until a cack-handed crane operator puts a steel through a wall which knocks your TV off the wall which falls into your prize aquarium electrocuting your beloved angelfish.

(or if your next door neighbour starts claiming for BS against you if you're building... )

I think the point being made is that most people are friends with their neighbours (at least until things go wrong) and would rather not start getting solicitors and surveyors involved costing hundreds of pound if they don’t have to.

Friends or not, if my neighbour started excavations next to my house without discussing it with me or serving the requisite notices, irrespective of how matey we are I'd be round asking why he hadn't done it and requiring him to suspend work until it's done.

Everything is fine and friendly until a cack-handed crane operator puts a steel through a wall which knocks your TV off the wall which falls into your prize aquarium electrocuting your beloved angelfish.

Probably wouldn't be covered under the PWA ;-P

Appointing a party wall surveyor and having a formal agreement is a good way to preserve neighbourly relations long-term.

Any neighbour objecting to you protecting your most valuable asset against risk from their actions isn’t a good neighbour anyway.

Why would anyone making a significant investment in their property have an objection to an incremental increase in cost, just from using the appropriate formal mechanisms in place...?

Why would anyone making a significant investment in their property have an objection to an incremental increase in cost, just from using the appropriateformal mechanisms in place…?

Tell your other half you think they should see a solicitor and you want an accountant to look through the household finances, you know, just in case you fancy a divorce at any point, let us know how it goes down and how long pudding is withdrawn :-p

Everything is fine and friendly until a cack-handed crane operator puts a steel through a wall which knocks your TV off the wall which falls into your prize aquarium electrocuting your beloved angelfish.

And how does hiring a Party Wall Surveyor stop this? They don't sit there 24/7 guarding your house.....

I think the point being made is that most people are friends with their neighbours (at least until things go wrong) and would rather not start getting solicitors and surveyors involved costing hundreds of pound if they don’t have to.

Also there is quite a racket with PWS. A local firm scans the Planning Apps then mailshots the neighbours 'recommending' £1000s of worth of unnecessary work by saying the extension 'could' cause subsidence, better appoint then and get the neighbour to pay for exploratory digs etc.

For the sake of a few hundred pounds on an extension that will be costing tens of thousands I think you’d be mad not to politely insist on formalising it.

It doesn't actually guarantee / prevent anything though. There's a statutory obligation to advise in advance of works.The notification process is just that, a notification; it doesn't stop someone collapsing your house and nor can a PWS, he can look at the plans and go - yep looks fine, but they can still cock up.

It doesn’t actually guarantee / prevent anything though. There’s a statutory obligation to advise in advance of <span class="skimlinks-unlinked">works.The</span> notification process is just that, a notification; it doesn’t stop someone collapsing your house and nor can a PWS, he can look at the plans and go – yep looks fine, but they can still cock up.

Or, I imagine, go "no, these are crazy, change them", and then you avoid problems.

I know we live in a world where climate change is denied, Brexit and Trump are voted for etc. but are we really at the point where we don't realise that people who know about building stuff can make sure your interests are looked after? Do you think surveyors just get paid for nothing with no expertise?

Or, I imagine, go “no, these are crazy, change them”, and then you avoid problems.

But in 99% of cases the plans will have gone through Planning / BC, so be absolutely fine.

Hence no one I know has ever bothered with one. I've done two extensions and both neighbours have had extensions and not a PWS in sight. Same goes for all the other neighbours I know...

Do you think surveyors just get paid for nothing with no expertise?

Well the ones who mailshoted me were just the PWS equivalent of Ambulance chasers looking for a way to make money on a load on unnecessary work...

@footflaps: the plural of anecdote is not evidence...

But in 99% of cases the plans will have gone through Planning / BC, so be absolutely fine.

This is absolute rubbish, you clearly have no idea of what Building Control's remit is. And why are you mentioning planning? LOL

And if you want to bring anecdotal evidence into it Footflaps, I am involved with a few projects every year where an adjoining owner asks me to assess the structural damage caused by building works next door and propose a solution.  Even ignoring the fact that most of the time the dodgy practices would have been picked up by a party wall surveyor and the damage avoided; it is always a massive bun fight arguing over what damage was caused by whom and who therefore is liable. I always hear 'I wish we had had a Party Wall Agreement/Award/Surveyor".

I'm be interested to know what percentage of relevant building works actually involve a PWS, I bet it's well under 50%. Pretty sure most people just sign the PWA and don't worry about it.

I am involved with a few projects every year where an adjoining owner asks me to assess the structural damage caused by building works next door and propose a solution.

To which one could say the plural of anecdote is not evidence....

OP - From memory, it is within 3m <span style="text-decoration: underline;">and</span> where excavations extend below the underside of those of the adjacent structure ?? PWA perhaps still required, but perhaps one to check before you launch.

To which one could say the plural of anecdote is not evidence….

Exactly.

Tell your other half you think they should see a solicitor and you want an accountant to look through the household finances, you know, just in case you fancy a divorce at any point, let us know how it goes down and how long pudding is withdrawn :-p

I’m not convinced that’s a brilliant comparison but I’m not going to argue!  😉

But in 99% of cases the plans will have gone through Planning / BC, so be absolutely fine.

You have no idea! Planning & building control give no warranty that the plans or works that they inspect will be fit for purpose. Cambridge CC are particularly slopey-shouldered in this respect.

After looking into this ahead of my own extension starting in the autumn my take is...

Having a PW agreement in place allows the neighbouring party to understand what’s is planned, to agree to it and to be be able to ‘hold’ the building party to the agreement. In the event that they object to the proposals or something is done contrary to the agreement then the building party will be required to appoint a surveyor to assist in resolving the matter.

As s comes are the case the works started I’d suggest a polite conversation to ask that the original party wall notification (with the necessary supporting information) be prepared retrospectively. Your situation sounds similar to mine in that the works won’t directly affect your party wall / boundary but you will want to know the precise location and foundation details. In my case I’m in the process of notifying my neighbour formally (after a 2 hour chat going through it all) using th option that requires notification but not acceptance as all works will be undertaken inside the boundary with the exception of access for the he building builder.

The information and template letters are really helpful so start there, albeit there are a myriad of options for the letter.