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looking for a warm jacket for hiking and outdoor photography, and as singletrack is usually a one stop shop for advice on a surprising amount of non bike related stuff I thought id see if there are any opinions on the above.
looking at a Paramo Halcon - looks a bit shit but seemingly built for UK conditions, or,
Fjallraven No.8 Anorak - only waterproof after waxing but probably tough for crawling around in the woods
I want to get good stuff and buy once. I generally find with outdoor gear, just like MTB stuff, you tend to get what you pay for.
I've owned loads of Fjallraven stuff over the last 20 years - I've never made it close to waterproof even with loads of wax. When it has loads of wax on it, it becomes terrible rigid. It's a nice idea for using in very cold places where the main risk is windblown snow/spindrift. I always liked dressing like a scandi carpenter in the 90's and 00's but the brand has moved further and further from their roots, and is a high street fashion brand IMHO now.
The Anoraks and various other pullover jackets and stuff they seem to make, always seem to have too many leather pulls, irritating in built neck gaiters and generally impracticable solutions so that hipsters can look like inuit dog-mushers whilst in Highbury.
Some of their trousers are still decent hard-wearing mountain/work trousers, but most of it is just tat produced in asia.
That's my two pence.
Fjallraven No.8 Anorak – only waterproof after waxing
Not waterproof even then, not even close, I wouldn't touch it with a barge-pole for serious outdoor use in the UK. As for Paramo I'm not generally a fan but it sounds like it might be suitable for your use.
Given you'll be standing around a lot taking photos a waterproof insulated coat would be a good idea. Mountain Equipment, Patagonia make them so do many others.
A Paramo Torres insulating over jacket might be a good idea too.
haha maybe I need to buy some Huskies to go with the coat.
im not a fan of the Paramo look but the consensus as far as I can tell is that it is quality stuff.
I always go for a separate shell and fleece option. Mountain Equipment shells fit me well and whatever fleece offers the right level of warmth.
im not a fan of the Paramo look but the consensus as far as I can tell is that it is quality stuff.
It works for some people and not for others and I've never quite got to the bottom of why that it is. Definitely more suited to low energy activities or cold weather rather than anything you raise a sweat on.
Haha I was seduced into buying a Paramo Halcon for photography by seeing an ad with Joe Cornish wearing one. More fool me. It has got lots of useful pockets, but it is as waterproof as a string vest, so I ditched it in favour of a fleece with a GoreTex shell on top.
This is a great jacket from Patagonia, I have many jackets but this is the best one for hanging around in the cold. It's not 100% waterproof but I've never got wet being out in the rain in it.
https://www.addnature.co.uk/patagonia-isthmus-jacket-green-514043.html
sounds like it might be just the job then. I have plenty of gear for high energy activities that I've been using but constantly cold. I figured a Marino top, endura insulated gilet, rab stretch insulated top and fox jacket would have done the trick....but no!
I wouldn't pick either. Neither of them are warm also? I do have an Arcteryx Atom AR that isn't waterproof, but works well in anything bar torrential rain
Patagonia jacket looks warm
thanks for the link.
looking for something that will blend in and not make too much noise.
As above - I have an older Fjallraven jacket and a few pair of trousers.
The Fjallraven wax things is absolutely useless - you can get them waterproof but then it doesn't breathe at all and you end up drenched from the inside out as well.
Nikwax cotton proof is better but doesn't work in anything more than a brief shower.
I like the stuff as it's hard-wearing when out with the dog deer tracking but Montane pile and Pertex is my minging weather go to.
I have one of these and it's a great jacket, performs exactly the same as my Fjallraven but has better pockets. Needs a few bits of velcro removing to lessen the tactic-ness but are brilliant VFM.
https://www.varusteleka.com/en/product/sarma-windproof-smock/34637
I bought a simple Paramo coat many many years ago after getting annoyed that my 3-layer gore tex SprayWay coat had fallen apart and was less than stellar in its water resistance after only about 5 years.
The Paramo Velez seems to be the closest of today's range to mine. I've found it very effective. Warmer than a simple membrane coat so not great for 'high intensity' sports like MTBing unless it is fairly cold indeed.
Waterproofness - it will leak at pressure points (backpack straps) after some time in the rain.
That you can reproof it easily with Nikwax wash products is a plus. No taping to come loose is great.
If it looks like a cool, rainy day then the Paramo is the coat I go for. Hard-wearing for sure. Styling is not that 'fresh' but if it's cold, wet, and grim it's a nice coat to be in.
I wore a Fjällraven coat out earlier today. Waxed and all. Wet through. It's got all my 'city' stuff in the pockets so it's the coat I grab if I'm off to the stores. I would not consider a coat like this for any outdoor activity in the UK. Waxing is a PITA and as folks said makes it stiff as a board. Also the wax will show up on the surface affecting the color. Unwaxed it's a canvas coat plain and simple.
If you're looking for a warm jacket then layer up. Something like a Patagonia nano puff or an Alpkit Kanyo under a shell is more versatile than an insulated waterproof - unless you really feel the cold.
Mountain Equipment, Patagonia make them so do many others.
Mrs_oab has a well worn Patagonia Torrentshell Insulated. Perfect for hanging around in the nursery year round, waterproof and warm.
I think one of the older paramo jackets would work, find a well looked after version on fleabay, waterproof and see how you go.
The old Alta I have is very warm, waterproof, and has great pockets, definitely not fashionable
I think Paramo is the way to go for rustle free.
The Torres jacket is worth looking at. You could walk in to the shoot location, pop it on and stay toasty warm
I’ve got a 12yr old Paramo Aspira jacket (actually I don’t have it as it’s back at Paramo getting an industrial clean and reproof for £30), and as big n daft says, it’s not fashionable - but it does keep me dry and warm for hours in end in any weather the Highlands can throw at it. That’s walking though, it would be too hot for biking. Bombproof mind.
I think Paramo is the way to go for rustle free.
Or ventile, also silent in use.
I bought a Paramo Halcon in Aviemore about 15 years ago. That jacket has been all round the cold places of the planet I have visited, as cold as -40 and it performed marvellously.
It has been by far he most waterproof jacket I have ever owned, waaay better than the overpriced Rab and Helly Hansen I bought. Just give it a wash in nikwax or plain soap every now and then, works a treat.
I notice you say you want to use it for photography. Wildlife photograohy? The Paramo material is very quiet in use, no rustles.
Zips and vents everywhere, which is just as well cos it doesnt get used after April, far too warm for the sunnier months. Enough pockets for your needs.
Only things I have issue with is the degree of insulation, these things are warm in use. The other is to be aware of what material your base layer is made of. Wearing a polyester type base layer, I have on more than one occasion shot little lightning bolts out of my fingertips due to static.
If mine died today , I'd buy another tomorrow.
I keep circling back round to the Halcon, looked at the other Paramo stuff, quite like the Velez Evolution but for wildlife photography the Halcon seems to fit the bill
I'm never sure about Paramo, I've had one of their Quito waterproofs before which I sold as it was too warm for biking in and I've recently bought a Pajaro for walking the dogs which is pretty much just a more stylish Halcon although I am using the word stylish very, very loosely.
Even from new it wasn't great at keeping me dry, the whole thing just gets waterlogged within a couple of wet walks no matter how I re-proof it.
On the plus side it's quiet, pretty warm, has loads of pockets, the extra length keeps the rain off your upper thighs if you've not bothered with overtrousers and I don't really care about catching it on brambles.
On balance I think I like it but consider it to be more of a wet weather "field jkt" than a waterproof as such. I know I'll gradually get wet but I'll be fairly comfortable so I don't mind too much. If I want something to keep me actually dry I tend not to bother with it. I know some people swear it's waterproof though so maybe worth a punt.
I've also got a Norrona cotton anorak thing similar to that Fjallraven but a lot less arctic-explorery. It's a great piece of kit for general outdoorsy stuff providing it's not raining but if it is raining it's useless.
I do think that the cotton/canvas material feels nicer on than synthetics so tend to prefer it until the performance in the wet or weight or whatever becomes an issue.
Before buying the Paramo I'd considered the Snugpak Torrent & Torrent Extreme for a warm waterproof which are supposedly quite good - never got to see them in the flesh though.
The Patagonia I linked to is a non, rustle-y material, feels almost like a cotton/canvas type thing though I think it's synthetic. It's very warm, arguably too warm if you're moving around but I guess with wildlife you're still a lot of the time.
I’m disappointed this thread isn’t about some sort of Scandinavian/Middlesbrough fusion street food.
Have a look at Jack Wolfskin Troposphere
I’ve had one for 4 years and it’s my go to cold weather standing around jacket. Absolutely superb and haven’t even had to reproof it yet.
No idea how Paramo are still in business any more - hopeless kit. Not remotely water resistant, never mind waterproof. Most users seem to return the jacket and have it replaced 5 or 6 times.
Er
No idea how Paramo are still in business any more – hopeless kit. Not remotely water resistant, never mind waterproof. Most users seem to return the jacket and have it replaced 5 or 6 times.
Except it is water-resistant, and for me waterproof
Moan about the cut, off colours, weird design then I'd understand
If you want properly waterproof for standing around then the various Scandi pu welded seam ones can't be beaten. Proper stand under a hosepipe waterproof. Rukka, Didriksons, Tretorn etc. We had to go this route when one kid was allergic to the chemicals in "normal" waterproofs (hands and face got a rash from water & chemical runoff).
They did great kids options but very limited adult ones. Not the most stylish but available in single skin and insulated.eg
the consensus on Fjallraven is resounding.
interesting how peoples experience of Paramo can be so polar.
interesting how peoples experience of Paramo can be so polar.
I've had plenty of jackets of most materials and they all have issues, just different ones
Gonna have to disagree with anyone bigging up goretex over Paramo. Had many goretex jackets until i bought the Paramo, and they cant touch it.
Bought a Helly Hansen Odin Mountain Jacket, for the bike.At the time , maybe even now, it was top of the range and over £300 , maybe more. I bought it from a Helly Hansen store. Well the thing leaked from day one and then, the hood fell off. Raised the issue with Helly Hansen customer services, who wouldnt budge on sorting it, despite it being bought at one of their stores and only being 9 months old.
Kicked up a bit of a fuss until, eventually, they agreed to pay half the price of the repair,as long as I paid postage to tbeir repairer of choice.
P ostage was £10 or so, price of the repair was £18, so helly hansen paid £9, i paid £19 for their lifetime warranty repair. Threw it in tbe bin not long afterwards as it leaked hideously. Contrast this with Param o who sorted some worn zips out for free when I sent the jacket for a reproof ( before I discovered nikwax and soap) . I have never forgotten their respective attitudes. Couple this with the bombproof construction and superior performance, and Im sticking with Paramo, fashion be damned.
interesting how peoples experience of Paramo can be so polar.
Yes this seems quite weird. I am sure people are not making stuff up but at the same time I know very well how sodden my jacket gets in rain. It's not just a bit of moisture making its way in. The jacket is soaked through.
@DrJ,
Are you washing it in pure soap ( the 39p for 4 bars in lidl stuff is perfect), then reproofing with Nikwax? Did mine about 3 years ago, rain still beads off it except in high wear areas like cuffs.
Try that snd then give it a WARM not hot iron. Makes a huge difference in my experience.
Yes this seems quite weird. I am sure people are not making stuff up but
I think it's down to differing expectations of what a waterproof should be/do and different kinds of use.
Although those who like Paramo will tell you that if you get wet in it it's down to user error. 😉
Most users seem to return the jacket and have it replaced 5 or 6 times.
The only time my Alta went back was when I melted part of the sleeve cooking and they repaired it. I have three different jackets all in their teens.
If you're standing still and not generating heat the jacket won't work for you in the wet.
I wouldn't wear any of my jackets once the temperature is in the teens, they are just too warm.
Those getting wet, you are ensuring that your washing machine is free of detergent before sticking the paramo in? As in 90 degree empty wash first and sparkling clean detergent drawer.
Having a washing machine free from any detergent or conditioner residue is critical when proofing ANY technical outdoor garment. Paramo, GoreTex etc etc.
Are you washing it in pure soap ( the 39p for 4 bars in lidl stuff is perfect), then reproofing with Nikwax? Did mine about 3 years ago, rain still beads off it except in high wear areas like cuffs.
I washed it in the bath with the Nik washing product, then rinsed it with the proofing stuff, and finally gave it a good spray with Nik stuff, and it is still not waterproof. But it never was, from the off, so it's not just a case of user care error. I wish it would work, cos I like the non-rustle thing, but it doesn't 🙁
I washed it in the bath with the Nik washing product, then rinsed it with the proofing stuff, and finally gave it a good spray with Nik stuff, and it is still not waterproof.
You need to use the wash-in Nikwax TX10 not the spray stuff.
The thing with Paramo Analogy stuff is that it's not strictly waterproof in the sense that it will resist a column of water like a membrane-based fabric - hydrostatic head - it relies on the whole fabric system including the pump liner being treated, not just the surface of the face fabric, which is what the spray will cover.
If you treat it with wash-in, it's functionally waterproof unless you put it under localised pressure - eg by leaning against a wet rockface or sitting/kneeling on wet ground, which will force water through. It also occasionally happens under heavily loaded pack straps.
If you want hard wearing countryside riposted free stealth for dog walking and outdoor photography try something that deer managers rather than mountaineers wear.
These guys and girls are out all weathers trekking around or sitting for long periods in inclement weather day in day put throughout the year in pretty rough environments such as woodlands and mountains.
I’m not saying go full on tweed breaks and jacket but there is some good stuff out there that will keep you warm and dry and ought to last.
I’ve got a swanndri wool coat that’s a bit old fashioned and heavy but excellent. When I used to be out in the woods more often that was a go to. If it was really wet and I was out all day I used a swazi tahr anorak. It’s gore tex but rustle free.
Try the ridge line clothing brand. Lots of foresters, hunters, deer managers and farmers seem to be using it. They’ve copied some of the Swazi stuff and produce a wide range of options. Ridgeline
Also Musto are a bit smarter and speedier but do some decent outdoor shooting coats that are rustle free and work well. I’ve got an old whisper jacket which is forested but quiet and the gore tex liner is protected as it’s on the inside of the jacket. It works really well. Mines not insulated but I th8nk the more recent model is. I’ve had mine for at least ten years and it’s still going strong.
You need to use the wash-in Nikwax TX10 not the spray stuff
That's what I used, then found it wasn't waterproof (a bit of beading and alot of soaking in) so sprayed it as well. Anyway, don't want to labour the point!
On the subject of cut, the Halcon is quite shapeless, which is good, cos so am I. I also was interested in a "travel jacket" type thing so I tried one on in their shop (near Baker St.) and it was cut too slim. The shop guy said that they have updated their cuts to be more "athletic". Guess I need to update my body to be more athletic too!!
Paramo is very ‘Marmite’! I use the Vélez Light smocks and really like them. It’s the only coat that I can ride all day in in drizzly winter Welsh or Scottish weather and stay dry and dry enough to sit in it while I cook under a shelter without changing. It is a bit hotter than goretex or similar but you can vent it and it dries out quickly if you do get a bit sweaty. It’s also the only jacket that I happily use as both windproof and waterproof. Normally I find shell jackets too sweaty to wear unless it’s needed due to rain.
If it leaks it is because the proofing has run out or it’s been washed with detergent residue in a machine. The best thing is that you can rip and patch it and still works.
Edit. I prefer the lighter version. I have the heavier Vélez too which is a nice coat as it’s quiet and comfy, but it is hotter, heavier and I’m not sure it is quite as breathable and waterproof?
I've had a Paramo Velez smock for 10+ years (the older one with the detachable hood). It's great but often too warm for me, the temperature needs to be around 0 for me to avoid breaking into a sweat on a brisk walk. As above, you have to treat them with the wash in proofing to make/keep them waterproof.
This winter I bought a Fjallraven parka for dog walking, watching kids play football, etc. It's big, heavy, and warm but I'm not sure it's that waterproof.
I’ve had a few paramo jackets and if I could get hold of an enduro in midnight & gold in size large, I’d have another.
I really rate their stuff. I tend to get hot & sweaty when walking, skiing etc. Every membrane based shell I’ve had hasn’t coped with the amount of sweat I produce, meaning that I’m wet through after an hour of brisk walking. They don’t generally let water in but likewise I think they’re crap at letting it out.
However, I tried a Paramo Alta 2 and it was a revelation for me. The “pump liner” seems to work a treat for active use. The only downside was that when inactive I found it wasn’t as waterproof as my Rab eVent jacket. So, for standing still I’d go Rab and for active I’d go Paramo.
If you’re wanting a rustle free all weather jacket, that’s also at an hybrid of the membrane & Paramo try to get hold of a Karrimor Enforcer SF. I’ve been using these at work for 20 years and they’re brilliant and would suit wildlife/nature photography perfectly. That’s said, they’re now discontinued and only ever came in olive or black. Definitely worth hunting down though.
Personal favourite is Thrudark smock. It’s warm and waterproof. Beat outdoor jacket I have ever bought by a long way. The cost is reflective of the quality though.
Thrudark
Good lord they have some full on marketing B.S.
I wear a fjallraven raven jacket as my cutting about jacket, wouldn't dream of wearing it in the hills as some have said 2 layers for me, alway. Own a green velez smock and it is weird, works but looks soaking as soon as it rains. I have a pair of the Aspira salopettes as well, after the nuclear war all there will be left are cockroaches and Aspiras. Totally bombproof.
I've been eyeing this up. Can't justify it myself as I have a Didriksons "anorak" which does the job.
Wanna buy a Didriksons anorak? Bit like this (Stealth ad)
https://www.tiso.com/apcsl8ti0183/didriksons-m-sebastian-jac-mens-blue-apcsl8ti0183/00191457/
Agree the marketing is a bit much. I was sceptical but munch like this thread I wanted a smock for all weathers. I was initially put off by the cost but took a punt.
I was over the moon with the jacket from a function and fit standpoint so since then have bought more of their kit. All has been excellent.
Previously a big fan or Rab and Mamut but thrudark is just better.
Thrudark SF PHALANX FLEECE - £245 for Polartec Hi-Loft & Powerdry hybrid fleece!!
Utter madness, you can get the equivalent from a decent outdoor brand for half of that.
🤦♂️
Thrudark SF PHALANX FLEECE – £245 for Polartec Hi-Loft & Powerdry hybrid fleece!!
Utter madness, you can get the equivalent from a decent outdoor brand for half of that.
I wonder if they're related to Jottnar in some way or if one has just copied the other? There's a lot of similarities in their marketing and pricing.
Or another option.... Ex army Goretex? If it's just for bush bashing.
Thrudark is another ex-squaddie clothing business with no taste or design background.
@Spin - at least the Jottnar kit has a lot of real world reviews. It's still probably cheaper than Arcteryx or the top end Patagonia stuff
I have a Patagonia lthsmus, (I'm wearing it right now). I bought as my work winter coat. It's good, decently waterproof and warm but not as warm as my old Rab Primaloft jacket. The hood is lovely to wear in the snow, and the pockets are very useful.
Very understated.
Edit - deleted.