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Read that FT piece tonight, before the paywall is turned back on. FT is free to read today.
Definitely worth it while you can.
I wonder what could be achieved with positivity rather than negativity?
A unified common ground to get these Tory shysters out of office?
Rather he was expressing surprise that it hadn’t happened.
Also said it was a shame that it doesn’t happen. An MP was killed recently. We need to unseat MPs that we think aren’t working for us. In the meantime they should be allowed to work safely, and their offices should not be attacked.
A unified common ground to get these Tory shysters out of office?
This. The election system is rigged in the Conservative’s favour already, and planned changes will embed this further. We need to acknowledge that and game the system. Put only one candidate up against each of them, and encourage each other and others to support that candidate. If we don’t, they will take the piss even more in their next term.
I don’t think dazh was advocating mob rule?
Oh I don’t know, I reckon we could do with a bit of mob violence to shake people out of their complacency. Couldn’t be much worse than the suited Eton educated mob we’re already ruled by.
In the meantime they should be allowed to work safely
Why? The state commits acts of violence on thousands of people every day either directly or indirectly. And the people who run that state get to enrich themselves at the cost of everyone else with no fear of ever being held to account. They’re laughing at us. They think we’re idiots. And we are.
Oh I don’t know, I reckon we could do with a bit of mob violence to shake people out of their complacency
Careful what you wish for.
An MP was killed recently. We need to unseat MPs that we think aren’t working for us. In the meantime they should be allowed to work safely, and their offices should not be attacked.
This.
As much as I'd love to see it
north Shropshire has been a tory safe seat for nearly 2 centuries
https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/1456389530039246856?t=q4nZTpD-oJAkESF_Zxp42w&s=19
Yeah, Paterson got almost 63% of the vote, and the turnout was pretty good too.
But even if they don't have much hope of winning it's still a good move. As the lib dems showed a while back you can make a good impression with offers of cooperation even if they're basically meaningless. And an anti-sleaze candidate automatically makes the other party the sleaze party.
We need to unseat MPs that we think aren’t working for us.
The game is stacked in their favour. They designed the rules, they gerrymander constituencies, they disenfranchise huge numbers of people, they lie and obfuscate at will, they control the police and the courts, and they control the media to make sure their opponents aren’t heard. So please tell me how we get rid of them, because I can’t see how that’s possible within this rigged system. It needs something else.
That system can be gamed. And should be. It needs the public to wise up, and opposition politicians to wake up to the reality of carrying on as normal. Attacking MPs and their offices is not the answer.
The game is stacked in their favour. They designed the rules, they gerrymander constituencies, they disenfranchise huge numbers of people, they lie and obfuscate at will, they control the police and the courts, and they control the media to make sure their opponents aren’t heard. So please tell me how we get rid of them, because I can’t see how that’s possible within this rigged system. It needs something else.
Spoken like a true patriot.
The fightback needs a catchy name like "The Tea Party" or "Oath Keepers".
The fightback needs a catchy name
If you’re referring to the US capitol insurrection I didn’t have much of a problem with that. It was good to finally see people rising up against a government that takes the piss out of them. It’s just a shame it was lead by rightwing nutters. The left could learn a thing or two, but as usual they’re too busy fighting amongst themselves for the scraps. Democracy, political institutions and politicians are only worth protecting if they serve the people. Can you honestly say the corrupt system we live under does that?
Has this been commented on?
https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/upholding-standards-in-public-life-speech-by-lord-evans
Keynote speech by Lord Evans, chair of the Committee on Standards in Public Life; published on day of johnson's latest u-turn and paterson's resignation.
Then looking at cummings posts, he's telling Starmer & co how to further expose johnson; c'mon Kier, do it.
The old mantra - follow the money still holds good and johnson is a venal turd who isn't good at covering his tracks.
If you’re referring to the US capitol insurrection I didn’t have much of a problem with that.
Ah, the slipper wearing anarchist is back. You’ve been talking so much sense in recent days as well Dazh.
Anyone watch QT tonight?
Apparently Paterson's actions are okay 'cos he lost his wife and was quite ill himself recently. Can you imagine trying to get your ex-colleagues to use those excuses in a normal job?
I see they put some junior bag carrier muppet on to QT to defend the indefensible. I suppose we should just be grateful it wasn’t Helen Whately or Theresa Coffey
Duly savaged by Caroline Lucas and Emily Thornbury who pointed out that this is just Boris using this as an excuse to reform/neuter the authorities before they start looking into who paid for his own multiple free-holidaying, expensive wallpapering carrying on.
That **** from the Telegraph would make excuses for his mate/colleague Boris chucking kittens into a cement mixer
@binners - be nice, that nice young man from The Torygraph only appeared tonight to help out his good friends.
He really did come from central casting, didn’t he?
Do you reckon they all get their haircuts at the same place as well as their suits from the same shop?
****s!
Emily Thornbury was at her sneering best. Caroline Lucas made a lot of sense
There’s nothing like a good old sleaze scandal to jolt me out of my apathy.
Really? It's the sight of a self-serving Tory politician filling his boots what boils your piss?
It barely makes mine lukewarm.
If stamping out Tory sleaze is all that is required for you to retreat into a state of apathy then I can only marvel at how easy you are to satisfy.
Sadly I suspect that your attitude is one which you share with much of the wider public.
As much as I’d love to see it
north Shropshire has been a tory safe seat for nearly 2 centuries
Voting in a by-election is not like voting in the GE though. The voters know who the PM will be. The know ± 1 what the size of the majority will be. Many people probably don't bother voting there because "if you stick a blue rosette on a pig it would win" - but if there is a perception that there might be a protest to be made that might make a difference those people might get off their arse, whilst some died in the wool tories may not be prepared to vote for anyone else but in a less consequential election might be willing to abstain as a protest. Add in the genuinely pissed off, who will switch from tory to anti-sleaze (assuming the candidate is palatable), and those who normally vote Lib/Lab/Green and really want to bloody the tories nose and suddenly it starts to look like a credible battle. If the tories don't have a good candidate (and if you were that person in the local tory club itching to go to the big league would you go now in the midst of an embarrassing battle that might not go well, or would you let someone else take the fall and then swoop in at the next GE?). And then finally you have all the people who are not impressed with how the government are doing, but traditionally vote tory - they'll not vote labour or green, might not vote lib dem but with a sensible independent candidate might be happy to express their displeasure. After all I've not seen anyone other than those intricately entwined in the conservative party top tier say this debacle was OK - and I don't think anyone has tried to suggest any of the public want 2nd job MPs manipulating gov depts. I've never bet on an election but I'd consider it!
Caroline Lucas made a lot of sense
Not seen it. But can probably safely agree anyway. She rarely talks anything another than complete sense in my opinion. Hit us with a clip…
It’s the sight of a self-serving Tory politician filling his boots what boils your piss?
Not really. My apathy is mostly inspired by the failure of labour MPs to do their jobs. The difference there though is that they’ll do it for an MPs salary, whereas the tories demand much more.
It’s true though that my attitude towards MPs is shared with the wider public. I too think the vast majority of them are in it for themselves and are a waste of space.
My apathy is mostly inspired
Well that's good to hear.
That **** from the Telegraph would make excuses for his mate/colleague Boris chucking kittens into a cement mixer
Lol. It wil be an interesting day when the Telegraph turns on this Government
Tory sleaze is an actual light-weight 90s diversion when so many are dying per day. Bit like wallpaper-gate.
Next week no one will care.
Labour yet again putting more effort into attacking the government with stuff like this than going hard against COVID response, poverty etc etc.
If Ian Dunt is excited then you probably need to look to the bigger picture.
Voting in a by-election is not like voting in the GE though. The voters know who the PM will be. The know ± 1 what the size of the majority will be. Many people probably don’t bother voting there because “if you stick a blue rosette on a pig it would win” – but if there is a perception that there might be a protest to be made that might make a difference those people might get off their arse, whilst some died in the wool tories may not be prepared to vote for anyone else but in a less consequential election might be willing to abstain as a protest.
And this is why the Opposition Parties - all of them - need to take the chance to put up a single independent anti-sleaze candidate. Will wake up the electorate a bit. Strike while the iron is hot and start setting a narrative instead of chasing one. FFS even the Mail would get behind it given the size of the majority being safe.
But reports suggest Labour thinks its too complicated. It really ****ing isn't.
Yep, looks like it isn't going to happen
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-59167967
I think its extremely interesting that the left blame everything but themselves for their poor performance at the polls
Its the system
Its the voters that don't understand
Its the media
etc, etc
The UK public want an aspirational government not one that talks down the country, the whole image is wrong.
They seem to be obsessed by making rich people poorer, does not matter what happens to the poor as long as long as Starbucks are poorer. They would be so happy if we all had nothing, because the rich people have lost.
The current government seem to be running a popularity contest, we have a chancellor who is out spending a Labour chancellor. I can only assume this is to take everyone's eye off the cluster **** that is brexit. Johnson is the luckiest PM in history, he could not have wished for something better than COVID to distract people from the current shit storm in Europe.
I have always been of the opinion that if you don't vote you can't moan sort of thing. In the last two election I went into the voting booth and just stared at the voting slip and thought what the hell do I do here.
But reports suggest Labour thinks its too complicated. It really **** isn’t.
Its libdems that apparently said this
I'm sceptical regardless of who they put up, a 200 year majority, 40% majority at the last few elections, 70+% leave constituency
Tories drop in a local brexiteer and its all theirs
Yip. Fire up the culture war, get the dog whistles out and wave those flags
Its the system
Its the voters that don’t understand
Its the media
Well, because this is largely true. The 'system' is rigged in favour of those with wealth and privilege; this is just a simple fact. The voters largely don't actually understand all the finer nuances of politics and ideology, and the mainstream media at least is mainly owned and controlled by right wing concerns. Social media can and is manipulated by those with lots of money, to spread propaganda. so it's hardly that the Left 'blames' these factors for the current mess; they're simply stating facts.
They seem to be obsessed by making rich people poorer, does not matter what happens to the poor as long as long as Starbucks are poorer. They would be so happy if we all had nothing, because the rich people have lost.
See your own comment about 'the voters don't understand'. Because this is just utter rubbish. The goal of the Left is to create equality amongst all, regardless of privilege of birth, wealth, etc. And if that makes a few obscenely rich people a bit 'poorer, so that the rest of us can have a more fair share, then so be it. I'm all for that. Anyone who spends their disposable income on 'space travel', whilst many of their employees struggle to make ends meet and have to piss in ****ing bottles because they're not allowed to have toilet breaks, then they have too much money, and it should be redistributed more fairly. I can't understand how any intelligent, right-minded person who believes in democracy, freedom and equality, could argue against that.
In the last two election I went into the voting booth and just stared at the voting slip and thought what the hell do I do here.
It's a fair point. You're definitely not alone.
L
In the last two election I went into the voting booth and just stared at the voting slip and thought what the hell do I do here
Would sir like his huge shit sandwich on brown or white bread?
That the choice at the last election was those pair of muppets is the most damning indictment imaginable of our failed political system.
The answer is always to vote for whatever reduces the chance of a Tory victory, but dear god the Labour Party make that hard work
That the choice at the last election was those pair of muppets is the most damning indictment imaginable of our failed political system
Here he goes... 😀
As for the real reason for Starmer's absence at he vote; he probably looked at the tories with their sleaze, and just thought 'pots and kettles'.
https://skwawkbox.org/2020/08/26/starmer-selling-access-to-front-benchers-for-500-plus-vat-online/
. Anyone who spends their disposable income on ‘space travel’
Its all relative how about people who spend their disposable income on driving to BPW to ride their E-Bike while people South Sudan are struggling to eat. Or even owning an iPhone while they starve, It's the same, just does not fit the narrative, the narrative is its always the fault of the government and the rich.
We had 13 years of a Labour government and by and large, it was a pretty reasonable showing. However when faced with actually running the country they realised it was not as easy as just taxing the rich and giving it to the poor. In fact you might say they behaved exactly like the previous government. Shame they took us into a illegal war at the end, deffo cast a shadow over that whole time.
Good article about the wheels falling off
Iain Duncan Smith, the former Conservative leader, worked particularly hard lobbying the 2019 intake of Tory MPs, who were less likely to know Paterson. “I’m going to be putting my neck on the line for someone who literally wouldn’t recognise me in a corridor,” one grumbled.
It’s the same, just does not fit the narrative, the narrative is its always the fault of the government and the rich.
What if it mostly is though? One person not going to BPW isn't going to save the planet - even everyone on this forum doing it won't make much difference. People like Jeff Bezos have the power to make real meaningful change.
They would be so happy if we all had nothing, because the rich people have lost.
Yes you're right this is the idiotic premise that many of the electorate believe.
Oh wait, this is what you actually think... 🤦♂️
Good lord, the Express used as a source
And Skwarkbox, that reminded me to check where the libel case they lost ended up. Thanks for the nudge.
Its all relative how about people who spend their disposable income on driving to BPW to ride their E-Bike while people South Sudan are struggling to eat. Or even owning an iPhone while they starve, It’s the same, just does not fit the narrative, the narrative is its always the fault of the government and the rich.
Bollocks. Bezos is an employer, and as such has a moral (at least) responsibility towards the welfare of all his employees. It's literally his fault that his employees are struggling to make ends meet and having to piss in bottles because they can't afford to take toilet breaks. So your analogy or whatever it was you were attempting, doesn't hold water.
We had 13 years of a Labour government and by and large, it was a pretty reasonable showing.
Reasonable? That government laid the foundations for the shitshow we're now all watching unfold!
In fact you might say they behaved exactly like the previous government.
Funny, that, eh?
Shame they took us into a illegal war
Yeah; shame that countless numbers of innocent people died or were maimed, shame that millions were displaced and traumatised, shame that an entire region was massively destabilised. But at least the rich didn't get any poorer, eh?
Good lord, the Express used as a source
And Skwarkbox
Ah, shooting the messenger. Would you prefer it if I used an 'approved' media source?
Here you go:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/labour-woos-rich-donors-after-unite-cuts-funding-bxjw80wsn
Feel free to prove any of the above wrong.
The Express is utter garbage and should never be used as a source of anything beyond being an example of the most untrustworthy distorted mainstream “news” outlet in the U.K.
It is complete and utter shite that does not deserve to be categorised as “news”
I made no comment on whether the point you was making was right or wrong.
Edit, sorry, forgot the last sentence
So; prove them (and the Times) wrong then.
I completely agree that the Telegraph is a shit-sheet. But in this instance, they are publishing facts. That Labour is charging people money for access to politicians and Starmer. A system which obviously only favours those with money.
Anyone who is using this moment to attack Labour rather than the Tories are part of the problem.
They've got to replace the money from all those lost members, the declining union support and all those lawsuits somehow! Going to take a while at £500 a pop though.
Yet again you seem to prefer to troll rather than discuss. Which is a pity as you have made multiple good points previously, in other threads.
The good points are the aberrations, the usual suspects point out that I'm an poorly educated neo facist who eats babies (ok the last bit was made up) with remarkable frequency
I wonder what could be achieved with positivity rather than negativity?
Sometimes you get fed up with people who think it should be open season on elected representatives and that violence or the threat of violence should be supported to ensure they have no safe space. Worse still they are trying to encourage others rather than do it themselves. They should be referred to PREVENT, both by forum users and administrators.
They designed the rules, they gerrymander constituencies
Really, which parliamentary constituencies are being gerrymandered? Specific examples if you don't mind.
The narrative that the democracy is broken/stolen/sold is Trumpian bollox. The system may be imperfect but I fear the replacement by mob rule and people's committees etc a lot more.
As for MPs being in it for themselves, I'm sure some are, I am also sure plenty aren't, most do a reasonable job, some don't. Parliamentary scrutiny needs to improve both of policy and legislation but that doesn't mean throwing out the whole system for something even the left can't define or agree on.
Anyone who is using this moment to attack Labour rather than the Tories are part of the problem.
This, from someone who condemned the graffiti 'attack' on the tories... 😀 Who are we allowed to attack then? Please enlighten us.
I'm more concerned with having a fairer society, than the fortunes of any party. I'm not a Labour member or voter. So go ahead; blame me. It's all my fault.
They should be referred to PREVENT, both by forum users and administrators.
Lol!
Sorry, what was that, Mr Orwell? Yes, I know....
And yet another thread is derailed and heads off down the ‘I’m leftier than you, comrade’ wormhole with the usual suspects..
The Express is utter garbage and should never be used as a source of anything beyond being an example of the most untrustworthy distorted mainstream “news” outlet in the U.K.
I agree. The Daily Mail gets all the stick primarily because it has such a huge readership. But imo the Daily Express is far worse.
The problem however arises because a newspaper such as the Guardian, which is hugely trusted here, doesn't want to touch stories which are critical of Starmer's Labour Party, unless they are already in the public domain.
Anyone who is using this moment to attack Labour rather than the Tories are part of the problem.
Typical labour, victim blaming 🙂
That Skwarkbox article is garbage too, vague meaningless tripe that's little more than "ooh lokl, nudge nudge, wink wink"
Although it seems they've not long ago been handed a £1.3m libel bill with Unite, so maybe keeping it vague is prudent.
Certainly nothing in there saying, "cash for influence"
yet another thread is derailed and heads off down the ‘I’m leftier than you, comrade’ wormhole…
Very few people create a song and dance about how leftie they are. But you in contrast binners throw the leftie accusation with tedious regularity.
Johnson needs a culture war topic to distract from this farce ASAP
How long before he triggers A16?
It’ll be gunboats in the channel first, I reckon. That was the script at the last by-election, wasn’t it? And Macron has an election coming too, so he’s ratcheting up the nationalist flag-waving too. Suits both their agendas
I expect Priti will suggest bringing back public flogging too, or using submarines to torpedo migrant boats
I’m more concerned with having a fairer society, than the fortunes of any party. I’m not a Labour member or voter. So go ahead; blame me. It’s all my fault.
This in spades 🙂
Tory sleaze is an actual light-weight 90s diversion when so many are dying per day. Bit like wallpaper-gate.
Next week no one will care.
Labour yet again putting more effort into attacking the government with stuff like this than going hard against COVID response, poverty etc etc.
Good article here :
Voter after voter post-election criticised Sir Keir Starmer for attacking Boris Johnson's wallpaper - a reference to the inquiries over who initially funded the PM's flat overhaul - without putting up his own vision first.
Labour appear to have toxified the issue of sleaze.
For now, they cannot rely on it working to their advantage to attack Boris Johnson.
They have effectively disabled an important opposition tool and line of attack by doing it too hard, too bluntly, without having enough of a vision to paint.
This doesn't mean Greensill isn't important. It just means Labour's missteps mean they can't weaponise it.
The article is a few months old but the points still apply imo. Labour must combine an attack on the Tories with offering a credible alternative, something which they have repeatedly proved incapable of doing.
The problem however arises because a newspaper such as the Guardian, which is hugely trusted here, doesn’t want to touch stories which are critical of Starmer’s Labour Party, unless they are already in the public domain
That’ll be the same Guardian that employs Owen Jones as a columnist, thus ensuring regular articles slagging off Starmer/Blairites/Red Tory etc?
That one?
Starmer made some good points on law and order as part of his Paterson response, it was well thought out and there's 2 more Johnson investigations to come plus a legacy of PPE corruption to unwind
Only part of what Labour needs to present, but Paterson farce has provided a good toehold
Mogg, Leadsome, jenkin etc all made themselves look like idiots- standard
But kwarteng suggesting the commissioner should quit may have been exactly what Johnson told him to say but was a proper disgrace
That one?
Yes that's the one.
You need to have a certain amount of gullibility to believe that the Guardian treats the Labour Party with the same robust standards as it does the Conservative Party when it comes to investigative journalism.
And to be perfectly fair that isn't their job.
Their job is to provide news from a vaguely liberal wishy-washy perspective.
Yeah, that Kwasi Kwartang interview made it as plain as day what the actual agenda was.
They really do have a total contempt for democracy.
Their job is to provide news from a vaguely liberal wishy-washy perspective
And the problem with that is…?
If you want a more “TO THE BARRICADES, COMRADES!!!” take on things then there’s Skwakbox, the Canary etc. if that’s your bag?
And the problem with that is…?
Well if you had read the whole post you would have seen the bit where I said : "And to be perfectly fair that isn’t their job."
There is no suggestion that there is anything wrong with the Guardian providing news from a perspective that appeals to whingeing middle-class liberals like yourself.
I’m more concerned with having a fairer society, than the fortunes of any party.
Not going to happen with the tories in. How do you propose to get them out?
Starmer made some good points on law and order as part of his Paterson response, it was well thought out and there’s 2 more Johnson investigations to come plus a legacy of PPE corruption to unwind
Only part of what Labour needs to present, but Paterson farce has provided a good toehold
The trouble is that this is countered by a politicians are the problem, "they're all as bad as each other..." As seen on this page.
Well, I have to have something to read with my fairtrade organic soya latte, comrade
They should be referred to PREVENT, both by forum users and administrators.
ROFL! I think the state has bigger fish to fry than bored mountain bikers wasting time on the internet. To be brutally honest though, who among us wouldn't feel the urge to do something stupid if you saw Rees-Mogg in the street with no bodyguards? Same goes for the likes of Redwood, IDS, Francois, Bridgen, Farage etc. Labour has it's fair share too such as Austin, Streeting, Mandelson etc. Maybe what we need is a modern version of the Red Army Faction or the SLA. Those guys would be spoilt for choice today.
To be brutally honest though, who among us wouldn’t feel the urge to do something stupid if you saw Rees-Mogg in the street with no bodyguards
Honestly, nope cant say I would feel the urge. Perhaps after a few beers I might decide to ask where his nanny is but beyond that nowt.
Same for all the others
who among us wouldn’t feel the urge to do something stupid if you saw Rees-Mogg in the street with no bodyguards? Same goes for the likes of Redwood, IDS, Francois, Bridgen, Farage etc.
Nigel Farage once got on the same bus as me, unaccompanied. He was upstairs I was downstairs. He traveled from Bromley to Biggin Hill (he has a house nearby in Downe) so despite having plenty of time to do it I missed my opportunity to make the national headlines.
Tbh I found it quite disconcerting that he was able to stroll onto a bus unaccompanied. I was torn between knowing that he is a complete **** and almost having a tiny smidget of grudging respect that he was prepared to take public transport unaccompanied.
What surprised me most though was how little he appeared to be recognised by others, despite wearing a typically attention-seeking garish striped blazer.
I can't remember how long ago it was but I guess it was probably about 10 years ago. I had to point out to my friend "that's the ukip leader Nigel Farage". I don't for a minute believe that he could get on a bus unaccompanied now.
my fairtrade organic soya latte,
I didn't know Rammy Gregg's did them
I think the state has bigger fish to fry than bored mountain bikers wasting time on the internet
You ride a bike?
Most haven't a clue who you are, but you are online consistently advocating for violence against elected representatives of the community. Not sure how it makes you any different to the people on the pathway to violence.
Tbh I found it quite disconcerting that he was able to stroll onto a bus unaccompanied.
My view is that all elected representatives should catch the bus once a week in the area they represent. Not so they can be threatened, but so they see it as their voters do
Secondary advantage is that bus services would naturally improve
If you’re referring to the US capitol insurrection I didn’t have much of a problem with that.
Perhaps you should say that to the families of the people they helped to kill.
Most haven’t a clue who you are
You do realise this place is make believe don't you? Whether you know who I am or not it has little bearing on what I say here.
There's a big difference between advocating violence and being massively surprised or bothered if/when it happens. Do I think people should beat up MPs? No, because ultimately sacrificing yourself to a life in prison isn't worth whatever temporary satisfaction you think it may provide. Would I be particularly surprised or bothered if it did happen? Not really.
There are huge numbers people out there who have suffered massively because of the actions of a great number of (mostly tory) MPs. If these MPs want to feel safe walking down the street in their constituencies or getting the bus (as if!), then perhaps they should reflect on how they conduct themselves and use the priveleged position they've been put in to help their electors rather than themselves.
Perhaps you should say that to the families of the people they helped to kill.
Perhaps those defending the US government should say that to the people who the US government has killed via it's military or it's economic policies? Violence goes both ways, and it's always the state which does the vast majority of it.
^^^
So you're saying that now we see the violence inherent in the system? Once you give up on politics what have you got?
plus a legacy of PPE corruption to unwind
So you’re saying that now we see the violence inherent in the system?
Yes, we can always have a good laugh at Monty Python, you could have at least posted a youtube video. But it's a simple fact that there is violence in the system, and it's accepted because it's difficult to pin it on any one person or policy (apart from Blair of course). That's why MPs are the lightning rods for the anger generated when people see through the propaganda, because they are the people entrusted to operate the power of the state on behalf of their consituents. But in reality they do the opposite, they exercise that power against their constituents and in their own interests, so they can hardly be surprised if now and again that anger comes back to bite them.
[ good reference johnx2 ]
An MP who should have lost their job has. He should not be attacked. His successor should not face real bodily harm (or death), either while carrying out their constituency surgeries, or using public transport. Their offices should not be attacked (by all means glue yourself to their office doorstep wearing a t-shirt complaining about their political behaviour). Those wishing real harm on any MP and their offices are putting all MPs at risk, and then the idea of "them" having any idea what "we" need will be for the birds... as "they" will have to be kept apart from "us", or feel the results of everyone's frustration in the from of violence. If you really think that it's a "shame" that violence isn't occurring, and not just brushing up your slipper wearing anarchist image because you think "this place is make believe", that is quite depressing.
An MP who should have lost their job has.
How many others who should also lose their jobs have? The only reason Paterson has gone is because his incompetent boss saw an opportunity to help himself and totally cocked it up. Had that not happened he would still be in a job, and all the others like him are still in their jobs with no fear of ending up like him. So please don't try and claim this as a victory for transparency and accountability, it's the very opposite of that.
and then the idea of “them” having any idea what “we” need will be for the birds… as “they” will have to be kept apart from “us”
Err, wakey, wakey, they already are apart from 'us'. Or have you not been paying attention? It amazes me how many supposed lefties here are quick to defend corrupt tory MPs. It's clear to me now why they get away with it.
So please don’t try and claim this as a victory for transparency and accountability
I didn't. I'm saying that we need to remove MPs, not physically attack them. Between elections it is just about impossible to remove a sitting MP. I still don't think that they or their offices should be attacked... mostly because that makes it open season on all MPs, not matter what they do in office. It could well be the few MPs that you and I feel do try to work for "us" that end up with the greatest threat against them as they attempt to do so.
defend corrupt tory MPs
I didn't.
Really, which parliamentary constituencies are being gerrymandered? Specific examples if you don’t mind.
The narrative that the democracy is broken/stolen/sold is Trumpian bollox. The system may be imperfect but I fear the replacement by mob rule and people’s committees etc a lot more.
As for MPs being in it for themselves, I’m sure some are, I am also sure plenty aren’t, most do a reasonable job, some don’t. Parliamentary scrutiny needs to improve both of policy and legislation but that doesn’t mean throwing out the whole system for something even the left can’t define or agree on.
+1
Those rolling their eyes that "the opposition" haven't agreed to stand down so an independent can stand in this bye election, who are they supposed to stand aside for? No one has yet put their hat in the ring and there's no way that anyone associated with any opposition party could stand as it will backfire so it's not like they can organise it.
It's a great opportunity for someone but who could it be?
Perhaps those defending the US government should say that to the people who the US government has killed via it’s military or it’s economic policies? Violence goes both ways, and it’s always the state which does the vast majority of it.
The people who stormed the Capitol were defending the US government, that was the whole point.
Seriously, when you're attempting to justify the actions of nazis and racists, it's time to stop and have a think.