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Owen Paterson #Tory...
 

[Closed] Owen Paterson #Torysleaze

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@kelvin Again why didn't Corbyn vote ?


 
Posted : 04/11/2021 10:45 am
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That might be the first ever Mail headline that has made me happy. There is some hope.


 
Posted : 04/11/2021 10:45 am
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Edited to add What was Jeremy Corbyn’s excuse for not turning up ?

Given how much he’s been paid over the years for his rent-a-gob performances on Russia Today and Iranian state TV, he was probably thinking of pots and kettles

Anyway… I think that of our elected representatives are insistent on their right to be openly corrupt, they should have the decency to publish league tables

The going rate for an Owen Paterson, not even a junior minister, is 3 grand an hour.

I wonder what the going rate for a Kwasi Kwartang or a Gove is?


 
Posted : 04/11/2021 10:52 am
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Are you proposing that perhaps we should have the party with the second most votes in power instead?

PR would solve this, and you know it.

@kelvin Again why didn’t Corbyn vote ?

Does he pair with an opposition MP who had said he wouldn't be there?


 
Posted : 04/11/2021 10:52 am
 lamp
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Not much to add really, other than:

1. Absolutely no surprise in the accusations and the handling
2. There will be more of this that will come to light
3. They are corrupt to the core
4. They have no interest in looking after the general public, they are just keeping their noses in the trough and are securing that position.
5. They need to go


 
Posted : 04/11/2021 10:54 am
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Again why didn’t Corbyn vote ?

I neither know nor care. He isn’t even a Labour MP anyway. Johnson is embedding corruption in parliament and government, and with his thumping majority he can. Going ‘ooo look at the opposition’ when every opposition MP present (except a DUP one) voted against this incredibly cheeky circumventing/removal of rules put in place to put MPs off being corrupt, is pointing the wrong way. This corrupt government must go, and we need to all work towards that end.


 
Posted : 04/11/2021 10:57 am
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Time to march?


 
Posted : 04/11/2021 10:58 am
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This is the week to talk to Tory voting friends and family.


 
Posted : 04/11/2021 10:59 am
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That might be the first ever Mail headline that has made me happy. There is some hope.

playing to the crowd, at the first sniff of a GE it'll be back to business as usual.


 
Posted : 04/11/2021 11:00 am
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This is the week to talk to Tory voting friends and family.

Heh! They don't talk about politics... 🙂


 
Posted : 04/11/2021 11:00 am
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Does he pair with an opposition MP who had said he wouldn’t be there?

There's no pairing for three line whips.

I'm finding the opposition abstentions inexplicable, too. No explanation in the media. I do have one theory but it's probably wrong and I'm not sharing...

List here:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/nov/03/how-mps-voted-on-standards-reform-and-let-owen-paterson-off-the-hook

with his thumping majority he can

He didn't have a majority yesterday, not even close.


 
Posted : 04/11/2021 11:02 am
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PR would solve this, and you know it.

Totally agree 👍


 
Posted : 04/11/2021 11:03 am
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I’m finding the opposition abstentions inexplicable, too. No explanation in the media. I do have one theory but it’s probably wrong and I’m not sharing…

that allowing this vote to pass was a trap for Johnson & Starmer was happy to help with it?

especially as Labour had attack ads based on this ready to go?

https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1455934838528266244

cummings is loving this too

https://twitter.com/Dominic2306/status/1456200360259997702


 
Posted : 04/11/2021 11:08 am
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Why do some people have an obsession with Corbyn? It just plays to distraction tactics.


 
Posted : 04/11/2021 11:10 am
 poly
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It is entirely proper that anyone subject to a quasi judicial process has some right of appeal.

However, is that not what Paterson had by the House of Commons having to actually consider and agree (or otherwise) the committee’s recommendations? Those determined to save him knew that they would really struggle to get the house to find him not at fault and it would be easier to sell it as we need a proper appeals process.

It’s difficult to know if it’s just my bubble / echo chamber but there’s strong public opinion on this and I suspect they have misjudged what they will get away with.

Ironically had he gone quietly he might have stood a chance of being re-elected himself at the by election. Having created the Kerfuffle someone is bound to field a right leaning anti sleeve candidate and they will lose the seat - because it’s almost inevitable that whatever appeal process is put in, will still support the gist of the committees findings. Unless they can stall it until after the next election - and he sneaks out quietly?

I’d be very surprised if the two companies involved are not Tory party donors. That may be where the even bigger sleaze lies… because nobody is risking this mess to save one man when you have an 80 seat majority.


 
Posted : 04/11/2021 11:10 am
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I neither know nor care. He isn’t even a Labour MP anyway. Johnson is embedding corruption in parliament and government, and with his thumping majority he can. Going ‘ooo look at the opposition’ when every opposition MP present (except a DUP one) voted against this incredibly cheeky circumventing/removal of rules put in place to put MPs off being corrupt, is pointing the wrong way.

If there was a genuine reason why the ones who didn't vote, didn't turn up I am all ears. At the moment as a tax payer who pays MP's wages I feel a little bit let down that they were not there to stop something as important as this.

It was an easy win for the opposition, all they needed to do was turn up.

If you want to defend the Labour party in this instance then you are going to have to tell me why they didn't vote against it. If not I can only assume they didn't deem it important enough.

Does he pair with an opposition MP who had said he wouldn’t be there?

As far as I am aware pairing goes out the window with a 3 line whip.


 
Posted : 04/11/2021 11:11 am
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that this allowing this vote to pass was a trap for Johnson & Starmer was happy to help with it?

Damn you, Kimbers.🤣

I'm sure it's wrong though. If that was the case the commentators would be talking about it, and they're not.


 
Posted : 04/11/2021 11:11 am
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Why do some people have an obsession with Corbyn? It just plays to distraction tactics.

I think he was chosen as an example in answer to Kelvin's request for someone who absolutely *could* have voted but chose not to.

...but Kelvin seemed to lose interest in that once it was provided. 🤣


 
Posted : 04/11/2021 11:14 am
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If there was a genuine reason why the ones who didn’t vote, didn’t turn up I am all ears.

I quite like the theory above that they were giving the government enough rope to hang themselves in the court of public opinion, and had their attack ads ready.

Risky, but they were never going to defeat the government.


 
Posted : 04/11/2021 11:24 am
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That might be the first ever Mail headline that has made me happy. There is some hope.

For them it's simply a useful distraction from having to pretend that the ongoing car crash of Brexit is anything other than sov'rinty and control.


 
Posted : 04/11/2021 11:25 am
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In an interview with Times Radio this morning Anneliese Dodds, the Labour party chair, said that all the MPs who did not vote had been paired, meaning that by agreement their non-vote would be matched by a Tory non-vote. She said the system is used for MPs who are unable to attend votes because they are either ill, self-isolating or have a family emergency. She went on:

That’s what happened with those Labour MPs. There’s not a single Labour MP who agrees with the course of action that this government is taking. Every single Labour MP voted against who was able to, and it was only those who were unable to vote who didn’t vote.


 
Posted : 04/11/2021 11:26 am
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There’s some muppet of a Tory MP - Peter Lilly - on 5 Live saying that the previous independent system was ‘indefensible’ and ‘totally unacceptable’ whereas the system where they act as judge and jury on themselves represents ‘natural justice’

Meanwhile, back on planet earth…


 
Posted : 04/11/2021 11:29 am
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In an interview with Times Radio this morning Anneliese Dodds, the Labour party chair, said that all the MPs who did not vote had been paired, meaning that by agreement their non-vote would be matched by a Tory non-vote. She said the system is used for MPs who are unable to attend votes because they are either ill, self-isolating or have a family emergency. She went on:

That’s what happened with those Labour MPs. There’s not a single Labour MP who agrees with the course of action that this government is taking. Every single Labour MP voted against who was able to, and it was only those who were unable to vote who didn’t vote.

Have you got a link to source of that quote? It was a three line whip so I don't see how there could have been pairing and if there *was* pairing why did so many people bother to turn up?

"either ill, self-isolating or have a family emergency" - by definition those people won't be paired because to pair them could just be needlessly handing the opposition votes. Unless they paired those people with similar people on the Tory benches in which case that's not pairing - that's just coincidental people not turning up.


 
Posted : 04/11/2021 11:37 am
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screeching u-turn incoming

https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1456208783726759937


 
Posted : 04/11/2021 11:41 am
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So here we have the biggest open goal the government have provided yet, the press, the BBC, social media are all highlighting the self serving sleaze. Heck, even Starmer had a piece prepared and attack ads ready.

But no, we're going to get distracted by a few MPs who didn't vote and who wouldn't have overturned the government majority anyway.

This is why the bastards think they can get away with it. Fixated on winning a battle and nor a war.


 
Posted : 04/11/2021 11:44 am
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It is basically the dom cum method but rather than trial the ideas by a newspaper leak they are doing it by voting in Parliament.
Interesting though that all they are doing is giving the impression that public action can have an effect, which hopefully will inspire more


 
Posted : 04/11/2021 11:46 am
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Not much to add really, other than:

1. Absolutely no surprise in the accusations and the handling
2. There will be more of this that will come to light
3. They are corrupt to the core
4. They have no interest in looking after the general public, they are just keeping their noses in the trough and are securing that position.
5. They need to go

this

I wonder if Owen will spend the suspension stunning up new lobbying opportunities for himself


 
Posted : 04/11/2021 11:47 am
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(minor) U turn coming.


 
Posted : 04/11/2021 11:48 am
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screeching u-turn incoming

Hmmmm

Did someone mention Boris not liking the optics...


 
Posted : 04/11/2021 11:49 am
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But no, we’re going to get distracted by a few MPs who didn’t vote and who wouldn’t have overturned the government majority anyway.

The left love self immolation, it keeps them out of power. It's all about the virtue signaling.


 
Posted : 04/11/2021 11:51 am
 poly
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If there was a genuine reason why the ones who didn’t vote, didn’t turn up I am all ears. At the moment as a tax payer who pays MP’s wages I feel a little bit let down that they were not there to stop something as important as this.

When did it become apparent that this was going to be a major vote? Historically committee sanctions have mostly been rubber stamped. If your MPs are all working in their constituencies, at COP26, etc when you discover on Tuesday that this is going to be a big deal then you may not have time to mobilise them? I think the Leadsome Ammendment was only tabled late on Tuesday?

As far as I am aware pairing goes out the window with a 3 line whip.

Was this actually a 3 line whip though? I think it was only a standard whip?


 
Posted : 04/11/2021 11:59 am
 rone
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There’s no pairing for three line whips.

It can as long as both parties agree.


 
Posted : 04/11/2021 11:59 am
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But no, we’re going to get distracted by a few MPs who didn’t vote and who wouldn’t have overturned the government majority anyway.

Distracted by? I haven't seen the answer anywhere and I've been looking.


 
Posted : 04/11/2021 12:01 pm
 rone
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I’m finding the opposition abstentions inexplicable, too. No explanation in the media. I do have one theory but it’s probably wrong and I’m not sharing…

Some of them are isolating. Etc. No proxy vote.


 
Posted : 04/11/2021 12:02 pm
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change of tack. Well, U turn realising they'd overstepped maybe. Personally I don't think this changes much as in we've seen they'll get away with what they can...

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/nov/04/boris-johnson-makes-u-turn-over-anti-sleaze-regime-for-mps-owen-paterson


 
Posted : 04/11/2021 12:02 pm
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It’s all about the virtue signaling.

Something the hard right are experts at.
Anyway enough of your desperate attempts to divert away from just how bent the tories are now that they are having to rewrite the rules to try and protect themselves. Since lets face it its not about Paterson is it, its about Johnson and his cronies getting worried about external scrutiny.


 
Posted : 04/11/2021 12:04 pm
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Distracted by? I haven’t seen the answer anywhere and I’ve been looking.

You might want to look at the last couple of pages again, plenty of potential reasons and suggestions.....oh, squirrel!


 
Posted : 04/11/2021 12:07 pm
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It can as long as both parties agree.

In this case they obviously didn't agree to pairing because hundreds of them turned up. ...and why would either side agree, the whole point is to get the jump on the other side.

Was this actually a 3 line whip though? I think it was only a standard whip?

Deffo a three line whip.

If your MPs are all working in their constituencies, at COP26, etc when you discover on Tuesday that this is going to be a big deal then you may not have time to mobilise them?

Yes, you do, you charter a helicopter you cancel your engagement. Missing a 3 line whip is serious and career limiting. That's the point. (And some of these abstaining Mps are in London.)

But we're all guessing. There must be a reason for it, none of us know the answer and apart from an article that I can't find the media haven't answered it. Maybe the political podcasts over the weekend will explain it all.


 
Posted : 04/11/2021 12:08 pm
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Handy that the new Covid treatment is annouced today. Pill shaped squirrel.


 
Posted : 04/11/2021 12:09 pm
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Anyway enough of your desperate attempts to divert away from just how bent the tories are now that they are having to rewrite the rules to try and protect themselves. Since lets face it its not about Paterson is it, its about Johnson and his cronies getting worried about external scrutiny.

Who are you on about? I'm in the throw the book at him and a 30 day suspension is too light camp based on what I've read. The system may need improving but Owen Paterson isn't a good example of why.

It's the left wingers on here getting upset about labour MPs not voting on the amendment hence the reference. Starmer couldn't lose on this, win the vote it's a government defeat on sleaze, lose the vote the government are making sleaze easier. But let's focus on beating labour up, bonkers.


 
Posted : 04/11/2021 12:11 pm
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change of tack. Well, U turn realising they’d overstepped maybe.

Not sure what else he could do as soon as the other parties refused to join in the rewrite.

...but again, wasn't that predictable? So why bother.

Scratching my head today....


 
Posted : 04/11/2021 12:12 pm
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It’s the left wingers

Of course its always the left to blame isnt it?
Now lets get back to the bent tories rather than your attempts to show us that lovely squirrel.


 
Posted : 04/11/2021 12:15 pm
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Of course its always the left to blame isnt it?
Now lets get back to the bent tories rather than your attempts to show us that lovely squirrel.

I don't think that's the point he was making,but we digress.


 
Posted : 04/11/2021 12:18 pm
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Pushing boundaries... simple tactic that needs an opportunity (Owen Patterson) the Cabinet is better informed of its MPs risk appetite/tolerance for a really important (for them) issue in the future.

Ledsom was primed for this one, obvious from her reaction to being questioned on the "issue"

Or all involved were dumb as **** but i doubt it.

Mogg as ever utilsed as the voice of reason (oh the irony) rather than retreat.

Might be a sign of some genuine "thinking" going on.


 
Posted : 04/11/2021 12:23 pm
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In this case they obviously didn’t agree to pairing because hundreds of them turned up. …and why would either side agree, the whole point is to get the jump on the other side.

Annelise Dodds has said that all Labour MPs who did not vote were paired.


 
Posted : 04/11/2021 12:24 pm
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