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Great night for Liverpool that, cheers Rafa.
"Ignore those who pretend to know. Ignore lies and misinformation. Listen to people who know best. If you do that, you end up wanting the vaccine and the booster."
Klopp on vaccines. Lad.
One of the best tunes ever recorded. Hats off for shoe-horning that one in 😂
Never saw them live. Did have tickets one night (ironically in Liverpool) but managed to highside my GPZ on the way there and ended up in hospital instead
Terrible refereeing for the second goal. No way that play should have continued. 2 players down in the area clutching their heads and you let play continue? Really?
2 players down in the area clutching their heads and you let play continue?
And we all know footballers would never feign a head injury in order to try and gain an advantage.
You reckon both of them were feigning that, do you?
Well the usual rules apply. If two of your defenders were on the floor in the box having clashed heads and the opposition, instead of putting the ball out, as they should have done, took advantage and scored, what would your opinion be then?
I’m sure you’d be fine with that, yes?
Rafa came up trumps for you again tonight. Great signing, that 😂
I wouldn't be especially happy but I wouldn't see it as any kind of travesty either. Turns out he was fine didn't it? And there was no foul involved.
I have a question for you: would he have stayed down clutching his head if Newcastle had got possession of the ball and were steaming down the pitch on the counter attack? And would Newcastle fans and ABLs still think the ball should have been put out?
Anyway never mind all that what about TAA's goal. I reckon that falls under the classification of a thunderbastard. Lovely.
To be fair, that was an absolute screamer
Obramovich's firing gland must be getting twitchy now, even the recent chelsea wins haven't been convincing.
and WTF is going on with the teams and covid, I have to be vaccinated or tested to attend work, why can't the PL implement such a simple rule.
I did think Chelsea would drop off over City and Liverpool a bit, but didn't expect it to be last night. They seem solid, but they don't seem to have quite the killer instinct of the other 2.
I think it’s well established the vaccination take up is low among premier league players - age and intelligence probably a factor. Klopp seemed pretty confident the other week his squad were vaccinated, of course you can still test positive after being vaccinated, and have mild symptoms.
I think we need to see a bit more playing on when players are "injured", it's pretty easy to tell when a player is actually injured and requiring medical treatment. Turns out the ref was correct to play on as Hayden finished the game, the ref is in charge so wait for a whistle.
I think we need to see a bit more playing on when players are “injured”, it’s pretty easy to tell when a player is actually injured and requiring medical treatment. Turns out the ref was correct to play on as Hayden finished the game, the ref is in charge so wait for a whistle.
Dunno about that, i thought it was harsh on Newcastle. I still think Liverpool would have won, but not convinced that was right.
I think the vaccination rate in the PL is getting better but still not great. Much worse in the lower leagues apparently.
I'd not be happy sharing a changing room with an unvaxxed player. And again if they are unvaxxed is fairly likely they are also less responsible about wearing masks, social distancing, bothering with hand sanitizer, not going to parties/crowded events, etc etc.
Yes it's their choice but it's also a choice with consequences. When it comes to contract renewals or picking the team in less trying times I think the players who won't do the right thing will find out some more about that.
Obramovich’s Firing Gland
(Disturbing) band name right there. ^^^
The postponements are ruining my FPL team/season! Only 5 games this weekend now
Went to Anfield last night. A decent game and it's pleasing to see Newcastle have a go at least. Mike Reilly (Wirral) really is odius though. The best chant was 'Mike Reilly, its all about you' coupled with the traditional reference to onanism.
You're setting a very dangerous precedent if you play on when a player is down clutching his head. Hayden was visibility shaken for 5 minutes but I think they did the concussion protocol apparently. It felt very different from the De Gea 'injury' and lazarus like recovery. I think it was Hayden who actually played Jota onside in the end as he was laid on the ground. That can't be right.
Liverpool would still probably have won but that incedent and a decent penalty shout when TTA might have fouled Fraser could have made it interesting.
@slowpuncheur - how did you feel being at the match given the present covid situation? I was meant to be going to Old Trafford on Saturday. Its academic now as its off anyway, but I have to say I wasn't feeling great about being packed in with 70 odd thousand people, even if it is (sort of) outdoors
It felt very different from the De Gea ‘injury’ and lazarus like recovery.
That was very different. De Gea was on the deck due to the standard comedy routine involving Fred raking his studs down his own goalkeepers ankle, so the play should have continued and despite the goal being very bizarre there was no legit reason for it not to stand. I personally think the play should have stopped last night given that it was a clash of heads, and it seems particularly bonkers that a player down injured is playing somebody on
@binners. Not great re Covid. Filled in an online declaration on the day which required a ticket reference BUT absolutely no checks on the gate of the Proof of Vaccination App. I was in the Dalglish Stand rather than the away end so there was certainly less chance of people near me disbursing particles as it was like a library compared to the away end:) Mask wearing on the concourse was probably around 60/70%.
South American countries to join the cup of nations, that's a bold power move by eufa having all the nations that would be expected to be at the pointy end a world cup in a biannual competition. I think this is going to get messy.
Hayden was visibility shaken for 5 minutes but I think they did the concussion protocol apparently.
Eddie Howe was complaining saying Hayden was still getting headaches after the game. Why the F did he play out the rest of the game then?
VARs being shown up again today, how Kane's foul wasn't even referred by VAR, but Robertson's was is a bit of a head scratcher.
I thought Jota should have won a penalty too, heavy and clumsy challenge in the box where he got none of the ball when Jota was about to shoot. But VAR is still better than last season so I shouldn't complain too much.
I didn't think the Jota one was a penalty, no where near enough contact. The Kane tackle though.....
I think the coms between var and ref should be available to the broadcasters so the decisions can be understood, just keeping it all undercover does feel like they are brushing mistakes under the carpet.
It's meant to assist referees, not cover things up, it could have been used a few times today but wasn't, both penalty appeals, red card appeals and other bits, honestly it's not as if VAR is overturning it, it's there to let the referee see something they may have missed, last year VAR was seen as overruling the referee, now they're just not raising it if it almost looks right to them, instead of actually doing the job it's there for.
It’s still subjective though, apart from offsides - you’ve still got a bloke judging whether the on field ref should have a look. I think they’re wary of stopping the game too much but penalty decisions and bad tackles should be looked at for sure. Agree with MSP - hearing the rationale may help.
now they’re just not raising it if it almost looks right to them,
The intention was always that they would review everything but only intervene if, in their opinion, there was a clear and obvious error. Seems like the threshold for clear and obvious is much, much higher this year. Which is fine for the most part. It has been inconsistent though. Relatively less contact has resulted in pens this year than today's.
What was going on yesterday with it, I'm not sure. I swear the VAR had drawn the line level with the defenders hand on Arsenals goal yesterday. I don't think that's how it's supposed to work.
And that's the issue, the ref has left the pitch today and is the talking point, he's taking the flak for his decisions, where VAR was brought in to eliminate this and allow the referee a chance to review, if the reasons he gave to Klopp and the panel are true, i.e. that it wasn't a penalty as Jota had 'stopped' to get the contact that's laughable, same with Kane's reasoning about speed/velocity/etc, about 5 folk in the studio haven't heard of that one, and a few thousand at home!
Kane tackle was horrific, split second away from snapping Robertson's shin in two. I'm also preferring the laissez-faire approach of VAR this season but if it's not going to be used for that what's the point in having it at all?
I don't know whether the respective culprits in either scenario had some influence, I'm sure Robertson is seen as a nastier player than Kane so will get more benefit of the doubt. Having watched it back, Kane's tackle really doesn't look good and was definitely worthy of a red. Robertson's tackle was never a leg breaker so looked less worthy of a card to me.
I was out and about today so didn’t see any footy
Just watching the Liverpool Spurs game on MOTD and both the refereeing and the VAR decisions were completely incomprehensible.
Absolutely zero consistency
You can argue whether Robertson’s challenge was a red or not, but if it was then Kane’s certainly was too
Robertson's was an absolutely textbook example of excessive force or brutality. No question it was a red. Why the ref needed VAR for that one, I have no idea.
Kane's was more difficult. He didn't do any of the things that make it easy for the ref to decide it was a nailed on red. He didn' go in two footed, straight in. His foot didn't go in over the ball, viewing it at full speed in real time it wasn't clear he didn't get the ball and his foot go across the leg instead of into it. Slo-mo shows that better. Because he goes to ground early and swings his foot across his body it doesnt look as bad. I think that's why VAR didnt intercede.
Although oddly in the spanish league there was a totally cynical two footed flying tackle from behind that only got a yellow, so who knows anymore.
Robertson's was petulant and aggressive but not dangerous. Kane's was a disgraceful out-of-control leg-breaker. No surprise to see a bitter trying to defend it though. No doubt you'd be there booing Robertson for diving or something.
Unsurprisingly Conte didn't see any of these incidents but was reliably informed by his staff about the 'handball' by Salah that apparently should have ruled out Liverpool's goal. 🙄
Is Conte the new Wenger
They were both dangerous and failed to take the safety of opponent into account. They were both deliberate, in that they knew what could happen, it wasn't accidental. In fact you could see Robertson's happening from 5 yards away.
Kane's wasn't more serious because his opponent's foot wasn't planted
Robertson's was almost knee height and could have been a ligament wrecker.
(point being - it's not the severity of outcome but the potential to cause it that dictates the seriousness nowadays. Players have a duty of care to each other)
Kane has form for those tackles but as England's chosen one, get away with murder. Robertson deserved red for stupidity. Looked worse than it was but he was clearly out of control. If Kane got a red, would Robertson have done that? He obviously felt aggrieved. It was a cracking game of football though.
Did anyone see Eddison take out Ryan Fraser by the way? VAR checked it and said as Cancello had the ball it wasn't a foul. I don't understand the rules any more.
Well the ref certainly upset Alan Shearer on MOTD, though not half as much as Dúbravka's inexplicable 'pass' that led to the corner that the first goal came from
It wasn't just that pass though. Cancello broke his neck to keep the ball in whilst our entire team stopped thinking it would go out. Doesn't matter how good you are, you have to be committed.
I'm not sure Howe's insistence that we have the keeper or defenders capable of passing the ball around at the back is right :). Lascelles in particular looks panicked every time the ball isn't on his forehead. Ciaran Clarke is probably lower championship/ League 1 level now. The owners must feel like they've bought a bit of a classic car that has just been sat, neglected for 15 years. January window will be interesting.
Yeah, VAR will need to be a bit more supportive of the referees for me, i.e. what is was intended to do, not have another referee somewhere in the UK making their own mind up about it, the bad tackles wouldn't take any longer for a VAR check as treatment is being carried out, the penalty decision as well, you have players arguing with the ref, why not just have them trot over to the screen?
For me though, Kane's was an out and out red, a complete out of control leg breaker of a challenge, yes he's a forward, he was heated up after scoring and so on, but that was an awful tackle, Robertson's red was a complete petulant kick out, he was more likely to injure himself with that and got a red for it, think most aren't arguing the red on review, but just the lack of consistency when everyone watching, bar the VAR ref picks Kane's as being the worst challenge by a mile.
That Ryan Fraser foul as well, if the ref is saying it's not a foul as Cancello had the ball, well does that mean you can just scythe down attackers if your teammate has the ball, it's the referee's explanations today that are the most suspect, as they aren't even following the rules of the game!
Indeed, when the ‘extra ref’ principle is applied inconsistently it really frustrates. In either case the way the on field ref saw things, for me, could have been 2 reds or 2 yellows - whatever he decides as he sees it. The whole game was a fairly physical affair with both teams going at it, the on field ref didn’t miss either challenge. Why the VAR ref felt that Robertson’s needed a further look and Kane’s didn’t just leads to an extra layer of inconsistency.
RM.
Robertson’s was petulant and aggressive but not dangerous. Kane’s was a disgraceful out-of-control leg-breaker. No surprise to see a bitter trying to defend it though.
I've no idea who the bitter is, but there is only one person whose biases are showing. Maybe trade the specs in for a less tinted version.
No one is arguing Robertson was hard done by. You are literally the only person trying to play down Kane's challenge apart from maybe Harry Kane. I wonder why...
Come to think of it wasn't Fred an Everton fan 🧐
No one is arguing Robertson was hard done by.
I think what you mean is that no one is saying Robertson's wasn't a red, but that's not how I read what you actually wrote.
This
Robertson’s was petulant and aggressive but not dangerous
Rather suggests you think he was hard done by. Petulant and aggressive don't make it a red card. Not dangerous would tend to make it not a red card. It was violent and dangerously. Hence the red.
Kane's wasn't apparently, if there was sufficient doubt that it was a red, VAR would have intervened.
Don't know Fred. Maybe hum a few bars, I'll see if I can pick it up.
Pull up your trousers, your biases are still showing.
Robertson's was a red, Kane's was a definite red. The fact that they were treated totally differently is the issue. But then you knew that.
Kane was trying to win the ball, going for a 50-50, over-zealous, not filthy
Robertson just lost his temper, a shocking 'challenge', obvious intent to hurt
It's the cynical taking-one-for-the-team fouls to break up an attack that really piss me off
Also, is Obstruction still in the rule book?
Robertsons was something you see many times during a season when folk are timewasting in the corner or shielding the ball, it’s no argument to give a red, but Kane’s tackle was wreckless and dangerous, he was moving at speed with no control and he made no attempt to come out of that tackle when the ball was gone, the two fouls aren’t even close in terms of being dangerous
I'd rather have been on the end of Robertson's challenge than Kane's. Robertson was lucky that he had time to take the weight off that leg, Kane's challenge had momentum behind it and his studs were up.
At the risk of flogging a dead horse the way Robertson leapt 5 ft in the air to get away from Kane's challenge is telling - it wasn't theatrics it was 'I need to make absolutely sure I escape this so my leg doesn't get broken'. But not even worth referring to VAR apparently. And one reason given was that Robertson managed to jump out of the way! Er...
Liverpool Leicester game is well worth a watch on the highlights btw - great comeback from Liverpool and some cracking goals including an absolute screamer from James Madison.
Refs seems to have totally given up on stopping goalies come off the line before a penalty kick is taken though. There were a few saves in the shootout that looked well dodgy to me.