MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
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6 sleeping tablets and a 70cl bottle of tequila. That we know of.
That's pretty bad, isn't it? Would that amount of each be enough to kill someone - that's their intention.
🙁
Take them to A+E - right now. Go.
Get the person to drink a glass of water with 4 tablespoons of salt in it, in one. asap.take to a+e
or leave em
Don't ask in a forum, ask a doctor sharpish! If in doubt go to a&e right now!
Induce vomiting, don't let them go to sleep, call 999.
Take them to A+E - right now. Go.
That.
But if they were trying to kill themselves they'd have done more tablets and you wouldn't know what they'd taken 'til the post-mortem. Serious situation, regardless.
As above go go go go go go
I know the whole "why are you asking on a forum?" thing. This was not my first port of call. Ambulance is on the way, person is sat with a relative in the meantime.
I'm trying to build a case to justify getting a chopper out to take me home.
for some folk that's just a warm-up before they go out on the town..
but definitely get them to a+e ASAP to be safe..
Doc here
Quit frigging around. Phone 999 now. Someone who has taken that much stuff may be heading for airway management problems soon. And they need assessment of their mental state by a professional, not you or an Internet forum.
Edit. I think you should have said that stuff in your second post in your OP.
Impossible to answer your later question without knowing a hell of a lot more.
As above, warm water, disolve salt in it, make the person down it. After vomiting, get them to A&E as fast as you can
Dont induce vomiting..... Straight to a/e do not pass go do not collect£200
You see what the 2 qualified posters have put do that, although someone already has I see. Hope they get sorted and in a better frame of mind soon.
Some serious contradictions here. Dialling 999 will get a paramedic quicker than driving to A&E.
I would have thought.
Shouldn't be wasting time asking us 999 is the number to call
as above plenty of salted water and walk the person Must keep them walking
must not let them sleep.
Some serious contradictions here. Dialling 999 will get a paramedic quicker than driving to A&E.I would have thought.
Depends how close you are to the nearest a&e, and also if you're in a fit state to get the person in the car and drive them there.
As for the inducing vomiting thing, you're not meant to do it unless the medicine warning label says so. I think it does for most sleeping pills, and it definitely is a good thing for alcohol poisoning IMO.
FFS! Don't induce vomiting ever.
Depends how close you are to the nearest a&e
Obviously ! 🙂 Generally speaking an untrained person negotiating traffic/traffic lights/junctions/etc whilst stressed out and panicking, is not a good idea.
I would have thought.
Some serious contradictions here. Dialling 999 will get a paramedic quicker than driving to A&E.I would have thought.
You're right of course. It's almost always better to phone 999 than take someone in.
On a point of technicality, I could almost certainly get someone from my house to A&E quicker than an ambulance could get here (unless it was coincidentally close when it got the call). The difference is that:
a) if someone stops breathing in my car there's nobody and no equipiment to deal with it
b) I'm not trained to keep driving safely while a loved one is dying next to me.
As I've already said, this wasn't my first port of call. My wife is dealing with the immediate, and she's keeping me in the loop via email.
Ambulance/paramedic is quickest cos the person is in a reasonably out of the way location with no vehicles available. Wife is ~1hr away, but person's brother is sat with person.
Sad though it is, the place I work has a very macho attitude and if I say I need to get home because of this without spelling out the very worst case scenario, I fear I'll be told where to go and get labelled as a work-shy oik. That and the fact that it'll cost roughly £85k (iirc) to get a special flight.
I hope whoever it is that's gone to such lengths makes a full recovery and gets all the help they need. 🙁
Where on earth are you???
This has been a long term thing, Elf. As much as I think the NHS is great, the person simply doesn't tick all the correct boxes when it comes to getting help. So frustrating to watch her self-destruct, yet no-one does anything other than detox her and pack her off home.
offshore?
Where on earth are you???
I'm stuck offshore. No crew change flights on a weekend for me to cadge a lift on, so it would be a chartered helicopter/medivac chopper.
Ah i see. Must be horrible for you being so far from family at a time like this, my sympathies. 🙁
Can I help? Another person to sit and wait? This isn't news I like to hear...
on their own, almost impossible. Together, possibility. As others have said calling 999 is your best option.
Recovery position so they cannot choke on their vomit.
F*ck. Hope it goes well.
Mr Ox, I'm a nurse and very used to seeing the various states people get themselves into after overdoses.
People have hinted above that the main problem can be when you either obstruct your airway or you are sick and then inhale the vomit.
Other than that, [i]and working from the limited info given above[/i], 6 sleeping tablets doesn't sound like a large amount. The combination with alcohol isn't a good mix, but if they are ok in airway terms, the actual effect of the things they have taken should just need time to wear off.
If you need any explanations of anything passed on, post up..
Im 99% sure you will need a lot more than 6 to kill you.
I recon he will have major amnesia and sleep pretty well.
Fingers crossed for you/her
Edit: Beaten to it.
As much as I think the NHS is great, the person simply doesn't tick all the correct boxes when it comes to getting help. So frustrating to watch her self-destruct, yet no-one does anything other than detox her and pack her off home.
Trouble is, there's too much emphasis on treating the end results, rather than trying to seek effective early solutions which could help prevent future issues. Cure, rather than prevention, with Mental Health. It's very sad.
As much as I think the NHS is great, the person simply doesn't tick all the correct boxes when it comes to getting help. So frustrating to watch her self-destruct, yet no-one does anything other than detox her and pack her off home.
That's shit 🙁 Now's not the time the time to be critical or have debates about mental health care provisions, but as already suggested, this sounds very much like a cry for help, rather than an irreversible permanent solution. Although it doesn't undermine the seriousness of the feelings felt by the person of course.
Let's hope this cry for help will result in the tormented person getting just that - proper long lasting and supportive help, which is their inalienable right.
In my very limited experience once someone manages to actually get into the mental health system, the help and long term support can be really very excellent. Hopefully this will be a positive turning point in the person's life. Good luck.
Elf, there are some people who you just can't help, just can't reach, who do this over and over again. It's a massively tricky situation, and one that is not that uncommon.
Elf... What Crikey said. We don't know the story here. But there are people who it is almost impossible for health workers to help. For instance people with drug or alcohol issues who do not want to change, people who are in destructive relationships or with severe personality disorders or chaotic behaviour patterns. And in all these situations it can be very difficult for friends or family.
Yes I'm aware of that, but I'm also aware of the fact that a lack of effective early intervention too often leads to worse problems in the future.
And it would be much better if we, as a society, were better able to identify warning signs and have the knowledge to try to help people suffering from mental health problems. And if such things were less stigmatised and feared. Ignorance is the most damaging thing, so many times.
Anyway, as Ernie sez; not the time and place for such a discussion really.
Hey, discuss away. Don't mind your p's & q's on my behalf.
Wife & Pigster on the way over, DickBarton, but thanks for the offer. We'll just have to see how this one goes. Hopefully she'll be fine, but long term alcoholism has caused severe damage to her liver, and suicide runs in the family. Not a good situation from many angles.
Cheers for the comments and advice anyways. Now get out there and enjoy your Bonfire Night toffee apples.
I'm currently on duty in a deliberate self harm team, there is not really much point on me speculating on your friends situation, but I do hope all goes well. IME mental health support for long term/ chronic alcoholics can be pretty patchy, for a wide variety of reasons. Anyway, best finish me sarnie, saturday nights usuare usually pretty lively!
I've nothing constructive to add, just wanted to say I hope everything works out ok.
Hope all is going well and that she is ok
Ox i know how hard it is when your away and need to be home i do environmental survey and geo survey work and at mo floating off the west coast of greenland if i needed home right now i think it wouldn't happen hope all pans out ok and she gets the help she needs
I can't believe people are suggesting driving to a&e and inducing vomiting. I'm not a doc, but I don't reckon they get people in to hospital and say drink this salt water, puke up all over, you'll be fine...
I hope she's ok. Sounds awful but at least now she should get a proper psyciatric review, if she doesn't you need to push for it, make sure the a&e doc asks for a review. Actually agree with Elfin to an extent, its a shame things have had to go so far before she gets help.
Thanks for the thoughts, folks.
Quick update, she's OK I suppose. Told the paramedics to jog on and leave her to die, so the GP came out with a view to sectioning her. Acted nice as pie to the GP so he gave her a clean bill of health and left. And we're back to square 1 👿
Glad to hear she's doing ok hope she continues to get help.
But she's ok (alive at least). And that's something.
As discussed, the fact that it was 6 tablets and not a determined whole packet or 2 it sounds like a cry for help. It's easy for someone to get scared/embarrassed when things go further and make out that they're ok.
You mention this has occurred before and you're "back to square 1". I think the initial cause for this needs to be addressed; whatever is going on in her head. Until the motivation to do this has been confronted, the behaviour will recur.
Does/did the GP know that she has a history of this behaviour? If they are fully informed I think they have an obligation to someone who is clearly a danger to themselves. As soon as they are equipped with the knowledge that something may happen I'm pretty sure they re legally obliged to follow it up. An assessment of capacity shouldn't consist of a quick chat!
So sorry you are all dealing with this.
This is meant to be constructive, hope it doesn't sound nasty. This from personal experience.
In NA and AA, they reckon you should leave someone to hit rock bottom (it's called Tough Love), then and only then will they:
a) seek and use help
or
b) die (which may not be a bad thing for a soul in such torment).
Both groups have ancillary groups for relatives/friends of the user so they can get support and learn how to deal with the person. They are attended and run by addicts/ex-addicts so the person feels a connection (not like a psychiatrist who has never been ill and doesn't know how the person is feeling). They are free and you just turn up.
It must be awful for her, you and others around her. Hugs to you all x
Cheers, Karin.
Problem is I don't think support groups for her will achieve anything. She won't go anyway. Plus, the history of suicide I mentioned: her mother committed suicide when the family told her it was AA or nothing. There just doesn't seem to be anything we can do other than watch her kill herself through drink/suicide, whilst at the same time health professionals deem her safe and competent and not a danger to herself or others because she knows how to behave when they interview her.
When someone you love is ill in this way it is natural to feel sorry for them, but they do feed on that, and they feed on the energy they are getting, so the more upset everyone is, the more attention and energy they get. May I suggest that you all bone up on how to deal with this in a way that is helpful to all? If nothing else, you will need help with dealing with the guilt, especially if/when she does top herself.
[url= http://www.al-anonuk.org.uk/ ]For people who know someone with drink problems[/url]
[url= http://forum.famanon.org.uk/ ]Families Anonymous[/url]
HTH x
Told the paramedics to jog on and leave her to die, so the GP came out with a view to sectioning her. Acted nice as pie to the GP so he gave her a clean bill of health and left.
So she didn't go to A&E ? It's a shame that she's been a 'clean bill of health' - it does indeed suggest that you're back to square one. And it does highlight what was previously said concerning how difficult it can be to help some people.
I know of someone who was very reluctant to accept help, or even, that they had a serious problem. It took a couple of overdosing attempts, arrests, and all sorts of endless bother, before they were sectioned. Although it was only for a few weeks (can't remember about 2 or 3) it was the best thing that ever happened to them. They were finally, to a great extent, sorted out, and along with a supportive backup team, they have been able for many years to live a very stable life. It's not a completely problem free life, but it's certainly no longer a mess.
Anyway, it must be a constant dark cloud hanging over you Ox, don't give up hope, and I hope the person concerned finally gets the help she clearly needs - even if has to be reluctantly forced upon her.
Hope your stress levels are now reduced Ox. Don't get ill yourself as a result of the problems ashore.
All the best
Mike
When someone you love is ill in this way it is natural to feel sorry for them, but they do feed on that, and they feed on the energy they are getting, so the more upset everyone is, the more attention and energy they get.
this....
one of my aunts was like this. when she was happy she was great fun to be around. then she'd be low and a right bitch. she used to try and drown herself in alcohol. my mum found her slumped in the kitchen witha bottle of pills one time. they rushed her to the hospital (5 minutes down the road) to have her stomach pumped. my mum and another sister asked for a doctor to see her with the view to sectioning her. his question was "if i give you another bottle of pills will you take them" "no". with that the doc was happy for her to go on her way. (i'm not having a go at the doctor(s). they see enough loonies and have enough on their plate, and i honestly think that if someone wants to top themselves, they will). a few up and down years and a few smaller incidents inbetween (again, pills, alcohol, wandering off for a night and a day) and following an argument with her fella (was was and is a top bloke who loved her dearly) she jumped from the landing with the belt form her dressing gown tied to the ballustrade and her neck.
my mum and one of her sisters found their little sister hanging, visible from outside hanging, framed in the hallway.
i think now that, despite the upset at the time, that it was for the best.
she finally took the decision to end it, and i, desite her selfishness, respect her decision.
to the OP... i hope things work out for you and her. fingers crossed.
There's a lot of sound advice being given here. Desperate/depressed people will always seek people who tell them what they want to hear. This means they will drift away from friends who often give the most appropriate responses.
Having been through something like this I'd emphasise the need for everybody, and those not so closely involved, to be educated properly about how to respond to someone like Ox's friend. Tough love is not easy to give.
The other really important thing is that those who are on the frontline of caring need to have support mechanisms. When we had to take care of some of the section several times, we maintained our equilibrium because of people taking care of us. Making sure that we were riding, seen all the good things in our lives, having proper meals etc.
Having done some reading around issues like this it's amazing about how close we all are to the edge. Someone with a clinically diagnosed condition may be exhibiting 7 symptoms (that might seem totally unrelated). I know I and most of my mates have 6!
Good luck Ox, take care of yourself as as well as your friend.