[Closed] Osbourne says no to currency union.

Yes, I used to do lots of that kind of thing, haven't for ages...

teamhurtmore - Member
Didn't you post all those photos of derelict buildings before?

He's switched to pics of syncopated marching derelict minds... 🙂

Technoviking says vote yes!

Isn't that Ben? In all honesty if I looked that that I would spend as much time as possible with my top off. (Tats excepted)

Hey, I know Techno-viking! He's a very nice guy, very friendly!

Hey, I know Techno-viking! He's a very nice guy, very friendly!

Techno-Vikings always are.

It's those bloody Emo-Vikings I can't stand.

It is, I believe, an Orange Order march - a group for which the phrase "ignorant f***wits" could have been invented.

Kona, dont forget that there is a strong totalitarian/suppress dissent element not far under the surface of many yS supporters. Just look at the leader.

The bloke in the hi viz jacket needs some help with colour co-ordination though. Quite an outfit!

I don't know why you're being so snooty about one of the oldest community groups in Scotland

Have you met any Orange Order people? There are fewer of them in Glasgow than there used to be, but it's the most bigoted, small-minded, ignorant organisation you could imagine. Most of them even have no idea what history they're "celebrating", it's just a way to attack Catholics.

bencooper - Member
Have you met any Orange Order people? There are fewer of them in Glasgow than there used to be, but it's the most bigoted, small-minded, ignorant organisation you could imagine. Most of them even have no idea what history they're "celebrating", it's just a way to attack Catholics.

A bunch of archaic sectarian hate peddlers with roots in NI, not truly Scottish IMO.

Have you met any [s]Orange Order[/s] yS people? There are fewer of them in Glasgow than there used to be, but it's the most bigoted, small-minded, ignorant organisation you could imagine [i][ok that's ridiculously harsh!!][/i]. Most of them even have no idea what [s]history[/s] independence they're "[s]celebrating[/s] advocating", it's just a way to attack [s]Catholics[/s] English Tories and their Labour, Lib-Dem sycophants.

HTH / FTFY 😉

Oh my aching sides.

dont forget that there is a strong totalitarian/suppress dissent element not far under the surface of many yS supporters. Just look at the leader.

HTH / FTFY

Not really 😉

It's not about you, honestly, it's about us.

bencooper - Member
It's not about you, honestly, it's about us.

And the English are accused of being arrogant and selfish? Ben, the implications of the vote extent well beyond "you" even if the DO stops making irresponsible threats. I appreciate that is often forgotten but that doesn't make it any less true.

Because AS is the only person making "irresponsible threats" Oh I forgot,better together is "pretty tame" ( love their latest no voter comparing the possibility of a yes vote to the partition of India) Oh;and it is about us,WE are making the decision not you. I am sure if the boot was on the other foot you and all the rest of the little Englanders would be really looking at any implications for Scotland.

What's the latest "irresponsible threat" then... Is it still the one about not letting EU fishing boats fish in our waters if we're not in the EU, on account of they'll have absolutely no right to and the only reason they can do it now is because we're EU members?

TBH it's hard to keep track of what's an "irresponsible threat" or not now, since that particular wolf gets cried everytime you state the bleedin obvious.

Northwind - Member
TBH it's hard to keep track of what's an "irresponsible threat" or not now

C'mon NW, it's a lot but not THAT many.

WE are making the decision not you.

Actually that's not strictly true. The UK Government agreed to give the Scottish Parliament specific powers to hold a referendum. But actual independence will require the approval of the UK government. Obviously it's not going to refuse it if the referendum clearly shows a majority supporting independence and all legal requirements are fulfilled. But unless Scotland declares UDI that's how it's going to be.

And the English are accused of being arrogant and selfish? Ben, the implications of the vote extent well beyond "you" even if the DO stops making irresponsible threats.

I still haven't worked out what DO stands for. Anyhow, if it's arrogant and selfish to want self-determination then fine, I'm arrogant and selfish.

The currency union thing wasn't an irresponsible threat? The EU block wasn't an arrogant threat? The border controls idea wasn't an arrogant threat?

The trouble is whatever the No side says is a sensible statement of fact comes across as a threat to the Yes side, and vice versa.

Have you met any Orange Order people?

I just find it funny that you, as someone who believes the Scots have different values to the British and that those values will result in a better Scotland once independent, are faced with such cognitive dissonance when confronted with a bunch of Scots with such strong values. I think this might actually be the best possible demonstration of the "no true Scotsman" fallacy.

The currency union thing wasn't an irresponsible threat?

There isn't going to be currency union, that's a fact not a threat. As stated in the OP 117 pages ago. Although you choose not to believe it, or at least claim not to believe - I suspect that you probably do.

BTW I believe that DO is the Deceitful One. Silly name calling appears to be is very fashionable on here.

I don't just believe that Scots have different values to the rest of the UK - it's an electoral fact. How many Tory MPs are there in Scotland? How many UKIP councillors?

However Scotland has it's share of bigoted idiots too - the sectarian problem is a big one, and my worry is that no-one's really assessing it's impact on the referendum.

I'm not sure what the "No true Scotsman" fallacy is. I'm first-generation Scottish, with English-born father and partner. They're both voting Yes, by the way, as is my English-born father-in-law.

I'm related to half of Fermanagh and East Kilbride

There's some serious inbreeding going on there. No wonder they're all apparently a bit loopy.

There isn't going to be currency union, that's a fact not a threat. As stated in the OP 117 pages ago. Although you choose not to believe it, or at least claim not to believe - I suspect that you probably do.

Facts are things like "Edinburgh is North of London" - the currency union stance is a negotiating position.

the currency union stance is a negotiating position.

It isn't. It might be if both sides wanted to negotiate. But that isn't the situation.

[url= http://ww.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/yes-does-not-mean-yes.23438016 ]Coalition source says yes might not mean yes[/url].
[url= http://sundaypost.com/news-views/politics/yes-vote-no-guarantee-of-independence-1.223772 ]Baroness Jay Independence will not automatically follow yes vote[/url]

Obviously it's not going to refuse it if the referendum clearly shows a majority supporting independence and all legal requirements are fulfilled.

I hope you're right Ernie

DO is a far more accurate description than bullies, buffers and blusterers that the DO uses with gay abandon when pressed.

Oxford Economics will be the next one to get the three BS barrel - "taxes and borrowing costs will rise and spending will fall" - why won't people stay on script? That's not what it says in the BoD and that's gospel surely?

Edit, sorry that's as new news as the herald saying its pro-independence 😳

Your first link doesn't work gordimhor and I'm not sure of the point of the second one.

The referendum is to establish the wishes of the people of Scotland, a yes vote will not be a declaration of independence. Independence will be a process that follows, and has to be granted. Unless as I say the Scottish Parliament declares UDI. Which is obviously not going to happen.

So yeah, what's new ?

Edinburgh Evening News on the same story

SCOTLAND may not get independence even if the Yes campaign wins the referendum, it was claimed today.

An unnamed senior colleague of Prime Minister David Cameron was quoted saying a Yes vote would not guarantee independence if negotiations between Edinburgh and London could not be completed satisfactorily, adding that the status quo would be “the default option”.

First Minister Alex Salmond dismissed the comments as breathtaking, irresponsible and contemptuous of the democratic process in Scotland.

You do realise that all they're doing there is explaining what it says in the Edinburgh Agreement, as I've already mentioned several times on this thread. Despite popular opinion otherwise, AS doesn't get everything he asks for in the independence negotiations even if you vote yes - independence only happens if an agreement can be reached which doesn't disadvantage rUK. Clearly Sir BS of Eck hasn't actually read the Edinburgh Agreement.

That is indeed a problem with the Edinburgh Agreement. But can you really see Westminster refusing independence if the referendum votes Yes? The UK would become an international outcast if it tried to pull that kind of thing.

So Sir BS gets everything he asks for and concedes nothing in the independence negotiations, because the UK has to give him independence? I'm not sure why the Edinburgh Agreement not allowing him that means there is a problem with it.

Don't worry though, it's probably just a negotiating position.

An unnamed senior colleague ......

That carries some weight doesn't it ?

The reality is that if the referendum clearly shows a majority supporting independence and all legal requirements are fulfilled then there is no possibility that Scotland will be denied independence.

Any suggestion to the contrary is simply to give Alex Salmond the opportunity to have a little rant and dismiss the comments as "breathtaking, irresponsible and contemptuous of the democratic process in Scotland", and generally whip up anti-English sentiments.

It also effectively plays down the consequences of voting yes by suggesting that voting yes doesn't necessarily mean independence, it does, at least it means Scotland separating from the rest of the UK - the consequences are grave.

generally whip up anti-English sentiments

When has he done this? I'm not a big fan of Alex Salmond, but I've never heard him be anti-English. Anti-[i]Westminster[/i], certainly, but that's a totally different thing.

Of course it's not, it's exactly the same thing. I specifically chose not to say 'Anti-Westminster sentiments' because it would have meant agreeing with his little game. It's like the BNP claiming they're not racist because they dislike Muslims. To attack Westminster is to attack English politicians.

Oho, so the SNP is like the BNP now? 😀

Again, there's this obsession with independence being anti-English - it really isn't. I know quite a few English-born people who are voting Yes.

I said the SNP is like the BNP, did I ?

OK I did. It's exactly what I said. I'm not going to argue.

So how many points does that score you ? Have you "won" yet ?

An btw when you tell me that you know quite a few anti-English bigots who are voting No, it will provide a rather more convincing argument that anti-English sentiments have no bearing on how people will vote in the referendum.

ernie_lynch - Member

To attack Westminster is to attack English politicians.

And Welsh ones, and Northern Irish ones, even Scottish ones. So ridiculous to pass it off as "anti-english"

And Welsh ones, and Northern Irish ones, even Scottish ones.

Er yes. And that includes SNP politicians ffs. Do you think Salmond is aiming his criticism at SNP politicians ? 🙄

That's exactly the point - it's not Westminster that's being attacked, it's English politicians in Westminster that's being attacked.

I love the irony in Ernie continually citing anti English sentiment when he loves to chuck in the anti Scottish stereotypes every so often. Doesn't matter how many times people point on this thread to voting behavior etc...

I don't just believe that Scots have different values to the rest of the UK - it's an electoral fact. How many Tory MPs are there in Scotland? How many UKIP councillors?

You missed the above (not for the first time)

.....round and round and round and round and around we go.......

How about [url= http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/overseas-sales-scotlands-oil-gas-3497896 ]oil[/url]

If you want an example of what triggers anti-Westminster sentiment, take a look at the latest utterances of Baroness Jay. She is not the first member of the House of Lords to raise this.

Those parasites are not elected. It ain't democracy.

duckman - Member
Doesn't matter how many times people point on this thread to voting behavior etc...

Would hate to mention misrepresentation yet again, but I think you will find that Ernie refers to voting behaviour at least as much and probably more than any other poster on this thread. He regularly mentions current voting expectations as measured by polls often to refute some of the latest BS.

As for missing points and facts, he is merely pointing out the detail again. Ok, we appreciate that facts and details are not welcome from yS but that should not mean that they are erased from the debate.

I love the irony in Ernie continually citing anti English sentiment when he loves to chuck in the anti Scottish stereotypes every so often.

And you obviously love making stuff up. I am very much "pro-Scottish", as I am indeed "pro-British". Nothing I ever say can be described as anti-Scottish other than when said in jest.

I recognise that anti-English sentiments exist in Scotland. And that where they exist they very much serve the purposes of the pro-independence movement. You don't have to be anti-English to be pro-independence but you do have to be pro-independence if you are anti-English.

Unless of course you know people who are anti-English but also anti-independence ..... do you ?

And before we get into the realms of fantasy with suggestions that anti-English sentiments don't exist and therefore cannot possibly play a part in people's decision to vote yes :

http://www.scotsman.com/anti-english-bullying-1-1810591

BTW duckman you play a blinding impersonation of a grumpy Scotsman with no sense of humour, in fact it's so good I'm assuming it must be real ? 🙂

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