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Konabunny Every journey starts with the first step, if we vote yes we can choose our own destination.
gordimhor - Member
Konabunny Every journey starts with the first step
But much better if it is a forward one and with the correct map and compass in hand.
But much better if it is a forward one and with the correct map and compass in hand.
Both of which are best achieved by independence.ie with control of all the policy levers
Thats a great idea.... Likewise the money gained from Scottish Oil revenues shouldn't be looked at as a UK resource... The money from them should be treated as a loan which should be repaid if independence is gained..
I think this has been done to death, it's the UK's oil. If Scotland leaves the UK it may or may not take future mineral rights with it. I personally believe the UK would grant Scotland a portion of the future rights in relation to the size of its population in return for Scotland's pro rated portion of the national debt. But like most things to do with independence nothing's actually been worked out yet. The SNP are completely unprepared for independence in terms of planning and policy as their only policy focus is becoming independent.
gordimhor
.ie with control of all the policy levers
I love your SOH. Better crack that duck's version earlier! Si solum....
Jambalaya - the last point is spot on - Incredible really after all this time.
Every journey starts with the first step
And it is the emptiness inside which gives the columns of a temple their purpose.
[img] http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_CudGbXbfHUM/SUktprh_hNI/AAAAAAAAAxs/oCqiCq4X5Io/s400/master_po [/img]
As you say Jambalaya,unbelievable we are still doing this after all this time,right up there with the free the Shetlands thread that totalshell starts each year.Still if it helps with the clear separation anxiety that manifests itself in you and Ernie's posts and the worry he may have to drink wine from a supermarket ( NOT booths either) when he retires here that is behind THM's opposition,then fire away.
You love it really ducks - it becomes addictive after a while!! 😉
You know what,after 4000 posts are either side going to change each others rather entrenched views?
jambalaya - MemberI think this has been done to death, it's the UK's oil.
It is today. And post independence, it won't be. The reason there's so little discussion about it is because it's one of the few things that's not really open to any doubt, only the most bonkers of No people claim otherwise.
Oh, hi!
are either side going to change each others rather entrenched views?
Yes, possibly. A few years ago, I was open to the idea of independence. But with the very interesting political debate (if dispiriting from an Economics perspective):
You (ie yS) have convinced me (as someone who is in favour of devolved power in principle and anti-big government) that the case for independence is remarkably shallow and frankly deceitful in many important respects
You have convinced me that there are clear differences between the Euro-area and the UK in terms of their suitability as optimum currency areas - it does not make sense for the Euro-area but does for the UK (for both sides) - and the DO knows this clearly
That (following on from the above) the DO is little more than a chancer and poorly equipped for the role he occupies. We all deserve better.
Apart from that, little has changed!
[p.s. despite all the wind and sails BS, I would still recommend McCrones book to anyone interested in this whole debate]
I personally believe the UK would grant Scotland a portion of the future rights in relation to the size of its population in return for Scotland's pro rated portion of the national debt.
We've done this before, and it's total bollocks. Is the UK entitled to a share of Canada's shale oil reserves? Australia's uranium? South Africa's gold and diamonds? All those are countries that left the UK (or the British Empire as it was) and took all their natural resources with them.
Nothing like what you've suggested has ever happened before, ever. And think about it - what happens if populations change? What if the oil reserve estimates change?
It's total nonsense, sorry.
On a different subject, the BBC has been promoting the "grassroots" Vote No Borders campaign extensively. It's had more media coverage in the past few days than all the Yes campaigns have had put together, ever.
Which is suspicious.
What's more suspicious is that Vote No Borders registered with Companies House only on the 18th of March this year - and registered with the Electoral Commission the day after. It didn't even have a website for another month and a half*.
But that's not all the suspicious stuff - it's registered address is in London, at the same address as a communications consultancy - and the registered directors are the same. It's also headed by a Tory millionaire, who wrote the austerity plan for the Tories back in 2009.
It's all very odd.
*speaking of the website, the person who registered the website used to work for the same consultancy - and now works for the Bank of England.
Goniads take on the No Borders
Oh yeah, that folk-pop group - also registered as a company in London, around the same date.
Because what group of young, eager musicians doesn't make sure they're registered with Companies House before releasing their first song?
They made one mistake, though - they remembered to register www.votenoborders.co.uk but not www.votenoborders.com 😀
@bencooper (and @Northwind) - I know we've discussed this before and we don't agree. Scotland is potentially leaving the UK. The licences to extract the oil and the associated future revenue streams where granted by the UK for the benefit of the UK. It is not automatic that Scotland would be granted the same mineral rights as was Canada for example in terms of new reserves yet to be licenced. Trying to rely on a precedent set with the old Empire, there is no such precident.
I guess one real spanner in the works is that Scotland could be trying to negotiate the details of its independence in 2015 with UKIP at the table !
jambalaya - Member
...I guess one real spanner in the works is that Scotland could be trying to negotiate the details of its independence in 2015 with UKIP at the table !
What's the problem? Negotiating with fellow independence seekers? 🙂
To be fair, the idea of UKIP in power is exactly as realistic as the idea that Scotland would be denied access to its own mineral wealth.
[quote=duckman ]You know what,after 4000 posts are either side going to change each others rather entrenched views?
Why, is that your aim when posting on this thread? 😯
Tomorrows Herald
[url= http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/sunday-herald-is-first-paper-to-back-scottish-independence.1399149163 ]Sunday Herald backs independence[/url]
That's news?
First time they've come out and said it.
I wonder when the BBC will announce their support for the No campaign?
Sunday Herald is first paper to back Scottish independence
In other words the only one. Good for them - they've identified an unexploited niche in the market, that should boost their sales.
Oh look at what they suggest : [i]"To read the Sunday Herald editorial in full, buy tomorrow's print edition or come back to HeraldScotland from early on Sunday".[/i] That sounds like a good idea.
Whichever way Scotland votes in September I think we can safely assume the Sunday Herald is on a winner.
bencooper - MemberI wonder when the BBC will announce their support for the No campaign?
None of the rest of the press need to annouce it, they might as well have it tattooed on their faces.
I wonder when the BBC will announce their support for the No campaign?
October 15th 2012 wasn't it? 8)
October 15th 2012 wasn't it?
😀
Not a surprise with the Herald. But they'd do the yes campaign a favour by putting the referendum news section always the free access side of the paywall.
Uniformed men marching down the road, telling you how to vote - that's encouraging.
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(Not my pic)
What are you insinuating ben? Howcome when the nationalists highjack the saltire and emblazon it with yes, this is somehow freedom of expression, however if someone displays a banner saying vote no, you are somehow being told how to vote. Quite frankly that is utter p**h.
Forgive my ignorance, but as an Englishman unused to certain Scottish traditions - why is there someone marching wearing what appears to be a Wermacht officers uniform?
* I am viewing this on my phone so small photos.
The brown shirts arrive tomorrow Ben - did the herald not report that ?
If you look closely some of them have KKK puppets on their shoulders too....
What are you insinuating ben? Howcome when the nationalists highjack the saltire and emblazon it with yes, this is somehow freedom of expression, however if someone displays a banner saying vote no, you are somehow being told how to vote. Quite frankly that is utter p**h.
I don't mind people having "Vote No" banners. I do mind when they march down the street in uniform to do it. It's not exactly a friendly, approachable image is it?
Forgive my ignorance, but as an Englishman unused to certain Scottish traditions - why is there someone marching wearing what appears to be a Wermacht officers uniform?
It is, I believe, an Orange Order march - a group for which the phrase "ignorant f***wits" could have been invented.
Port old DO - being bullied by Paddy Pantsdown and Pussy Riot now. He is collecting an impressive range of people who recognise BS at its best. Quite an achievement to unite such a variety of folk. A role at the EU or UN to follow....?
We had some scouts the other day Ben. All a bit spooky isn't it?
"It is, I believe, an Orange Order march - a group for which the phrase "ignorant f***wits" could have been invented."
https://mobile.twitter.com/GTFB1946
They seem like 'don't knows' to me. 😉
http://greengairsthistlefluteband.webs.com
http://archive.bebo.com/Profile.jsp?MemberId=4268652569
Uniformed men marching down the road, telling you how to vote - that's encouraging.
Don't worry about them..... according to the Yes campaign Jesus Christ is telling you to vote Yes
[url= http://www.yesscotland.net/interest-groups/christians-independence ]Christians for Independence[/url]
I believe that God trumps the Orange Order.
I don't mind people having "Vote No" banners. I do mind when they march down the street in uniform to do it. It's not exactly a friendly, approachable image is it?
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Okay, I give up - what does DO stand for?
(I know it's Alex Salmond, I just can't work out the acronym)
Is that Arnie McShortnegger ? ^^
Okay, I give up - what does DO stand for?
I'm afraid you don't have need-to-know clearance.
I don't really have want-to-know clearance either 😉
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/p>
Technoviking says vote yes!
Fair enough, I will let you keep guessing (it's very obvious, what is the first word that springs to mind with our friend? ).
Thanks for the posts today though, they were a laugh. Prefer the more straight one of the crane on the other thread though, I had forgotten about your alter ego. That scared me too!
Was that on the Edinburgh march? There was a bloke doing the call-and-return thing:
"What do we want?"
"Independence!"
"When do we want it?"
"Now!"
I felt like shouting "in about 18 months, after a properly organised referendum!" But figured that wasn't quite in the spirit of the event 😀
I really need to get back to doing more of that silly stuff - life is too boring with work and family, that's why I have to come on here and argue with you 🙂
Ernie. I am supposed to feel guilty enough as it is for voting no. I don't need god against me as well.
ben, I think you don't mind. This is they way you want to portray no voters. If anything they probably help your cause, especially if it is an orange march. It appears as a way of linking voting no to fascism. Like puting a Hitler tache on Salmond. The sort of thing that nationalists say is nonsense and does not help the debate. Your photo adds very little.
Much safer!
Didn't you post all those photos of derelict buildings before?