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You would be right,I would substitute Westminster for NATO and the EU.
zippykona - Member
I am English and pro union but I just can't see how independence should be decided on whether the numbers add up.
Vote with your hearts not your wallets
Nah,we are tight with money,anyway,it is all because we hate English accents(fnf) or just the English in general,at least according to this thread.
You also need to look at the difference between short-term numbers and long-term ones.
Short-term, we can have as many arguments as you like about oil reserves, balance of oayments, percentage of the economy involved in the financial sector, etc etc. Danny Alexander is planning to come to Scotland next week to lay out the facts - sound familiar?
But long-term, everyone agrees that Scotland would be successful as an independent country. Even David Cameron said so.
Worrying too much about the short-term stuff is like deciding on a lifetime's marriage based on who pays for the sandwiches at the wedding reception.
balance of oayments
Disappointed that wasn't miss spelt 'oatments'
Hey duckman I am merely pointing out the casually racist attitude displayed by a lot of Scots towards English people.
Nope,you were sprouting rubbish,as pointed out by one of your fellow pro union posters.And induldging in a spot of casual racism yourself.
On this thread we have been referred to as sweatys or jocks.I don't recall you or anybody else suggesting those terms were offensive.Indeed STW had a 7 page thread where it was debated whether the term jock was offensive,started by a contributor on this thread,lots of contributors added more inventive terms.(Apparently it isn't, we are just sensitive,also a common reply to any suggestion the no campaign is negative on this one) This was done early in the thread,don't worry;nobody else could provide any more convincing proof than your Scots don't like English accents crap. In the meantime,tolerant England still has 278,000 hate crimes a year.
I would never refer to a Scottish person as a sweaty or a jock. However it is undeniable that there is anti-English feeling in Scotland. [url= http://www.scotsman.com/anti-english-bullying-1-1810591 ]Here is some proof.[/url] I don't condone the names that some English people use to refer to Scots and I am sure you would not condone the violence against English people by some Scots. For the record the line about "Cameron sounding so English that you can't bare it" was a wind up, did it touch a raw nerve? 😉
Worked with a guy a 'Taste of London' a while back.
He got the crap kicked out of him in Bristol. He was by himself having a pint waiting for a train, was attacked from behind without any known provocation other than the stated "being a (insert derogatory names for Scots here) ****"
You could almost say there are idiots everywhere. They no know boundaries and are truly one of the most internationalist movements to be found anywhere in the world.
Purely from personal experience, I've observed far less anti foreign person sentiment in Scotland than I did in England. At least that's been the case in my corner of Scotland.
Nope,bollocks like that statement allows folks to put your posts on this thread into context.As for touching a raw nerve? Nah,I have encountered lots of English who have a disparaging view of Scots,based on their own sense of superiority.Bearing in mind the thread I mentioned,hardly a surprise there is another posting on here.
Purely from personal experience, I've observed far less anti foreign person sentiment in Scotland than I did in England. At least that's been the case in my corner of Scotland.
What proportion of the Scottish population is foreign compared to that of England?
Slightly clunky statement konabunny, but I know what you mean. Don't know the percentages, however I would imagine Scotland can only ever dream about the kind of ethnic and cultural diversity apparent in England. This diversity of a population in a relatively small space does bring pressures and issues to be discussed, hence the rise of UKIP.
Scotland can then stand at the sideline and proclaim a moral superiority.
The truth is that the UK and England in particular has been a welcoming place for immigrants of all backgrounds. Scotland has not been the destination of choice for the overwhelming majority. Would be interesting to see the statistics for Afro Carribean immigration to Scotland.
Scotland will not be the destination of choice post independence either, hence our culturally weakened state.
The welcoming nature of Scotland becomes apparent when my wife, who has lived here for 10 years, feels guilty about voting no. She feels that it is not her place to try to burst the bubble of Utopia voiced by the noisy nationalists.
Duckman the original statement was asking why Cameron is loathed when he has done less damage to the UK than the two previous Scottish PMs Brown and Blair. As is often the case the question was avoided. So English people have a sense of superiority, it is generalisations like this that are the basis for all forms of racism. [url= http://www.scotsman.com/news/scotland/top-stories/1-in-3-english-racism-victims-1-900068 ]1 in 3 English living in Scotland suffer racial abuse.[/url]
[b]I have encountered [/b]lots of English who have a disparaging view of Scots,based on their own sense of superiority.
So English people have a sense of superiority,
Spot the difference. If generalisations are the basis for racism, stop making them.
Nope fnf,you will have to do better than that,your statement was that "we hate cameron because he sounds so english." Here is a wee uncomfortable fact for you..Tony Blair has spent more time in Oz than Scotland,and we do hate him as well.I was surprised by your link as there were only 4012 reported hate crimes in Scotland last year,does that mean there are only 12,000 English folks up here? As for the first one,it contained 8 incidents of anti English harrasment the most recent of which is 3 years old.We are supposed to be sensitive,yet a holiday comp for during the time England were in the football is one of your examples of racist Scots?
Suggesting the majority of Scots are anti English and voting because we hate David Cameron is just you being lazy at best,or displaying a sense of superiority based on being English that I encountered a lot of in my 9 years in London.Mind you,I didn't say all English people had a sense of superiority,but as said above,generalize away!
Wrong again Duckman my exact words were "Scots only dislike Cameron because he sounds so English that you can't bare it". I have provided proof that some Scots are Racist towards English people, the link above says it is as high as 1 in 3 English people living in Scotland have faced discrimination, face it you have a problem up there. Blair was born in Scotland he is your I am afraid whether you like it or not. I also suggest you look up the difference between exaggerate and generalise. I will leave the generalisations to you being as you are so good at it.
For the record the line about "Cameron sounding so English that you can't bare it" was a wind up, did it touch a raw nerve?
Stupidity often does 😉
OK then,I will leave you and anybody reading your contributions to think about how valid any of the nonsense you spout is,you know when you decide a week later it is a "wind up" As for generalizations may I ref you to both stef and JY above...
It is actually spelt generalisations, or after independence are you planning on using American English just like you are supposedly going to use the pound? I did read the reply from Stef and dismissed it as pedantry, at least junkyard is getting into the spirit of things.
Is that the best you can do? Tell you what,I wish to change my opinion on the way my tablet spelt it. Shall I do it next week and pretend it was a joke? Just to fit in with you. Stef picks you up on misquoting and it is pedantry? ARF! Must be a bit of a sod when you display how stupid you are then dig yourself in deeper A WEEK LATER!
Does anyone have a good popcorn gif?
I do,no idea how to convince it to display mind.
What proportion of the Scottish population is foreign compared to that of England?
All the sassenachs living up there for starters.
......my exact words were "Scots only dislike Cameron because he sounds so English that you can't bare it"............ Blair was born in Scotland he is your I am afraid whether you like it or not.
And whether you like it or not Tony Blair sounds every bit as English as David Cameron.
So if as you claim the only reason why Scots dislike Cameron is because he sounds so English, then they must dislike Blair in equal measures.
I think you'll find that the real reason Scots don't like Cameron is because he is a Tory. After all Scots don't like even Scottish Tories. And Cameron's very Scottish name doesn't seem to help him.
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fasternotfatter - Member
Hey duckman I am merely pointing out the casually racist attitude displayed by a lot of Scots towards English people.
Of course, that only works one way doesn't it? The English would never treat scots/welsh/Irish with disdain, would they?.
It does only work one way and that is because of the air of superiority that all English people have. On the other hand it could be a feeling of inferiority that some Scots feel around the English.
On the other hand it could be a feeling of inferiority that some Scots feel around the English.
Which Scots would that be then? Alastair Darling? George Robertson?
I think you'll find that the real reason Scots don't like Cameron is because he is a Tory. After all Scots don't like even Scottish Tories. And Cameron's very Scottish name doesn't seem to help him.
Yup. It's not because he's English, it's not because of his accent, it's because he's a ****.
Slightly clunky statement konabunny, but I know what you mean
How is it clunky?
All the sassenachs living up there for starters
The majority of Scots are sassenachs.
The majority of Scots are sassenachs
Sassenach means english so you are saying the majority of scots are english?
Sassenach means english so you are saying the majority of scots are english?
I think the majority are Polish nowadays.
fasternotfatter - Member
It does only work one way and that is because of the air of superiority that all English people have. On the other hand it could be a feeling of inferiority that some Scots feel around the English.POSTED 5 HOURS AGO # REPORT-POST
Who said all English have an air of superiority then? It wasn't me. And in the same post that you said abuse only goes one way... 🙄
[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/10792044/Alex-Salmond-I-admire-certain-aspects-of-Vladimir-Putins-leadership.html ]Oh (H)ECK![/url]
(Tannoy)- Teamhurtmore to the forum, THM to the forum!-(tannoy)
So it's true, UKiP and SNP leaders are the same.
Personally it's time we put this silly English and Scottish tiff to one side and got back to the burning issue that is Freedom for Yorkshire. This will of course include any who speaks Yorkshire but is unfortunately living outside the soon to be independent Yorkshire.
Sassenach means english so you are saying the majority of scots are english?
It means lowlander/Anglophone, you pleb.
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kona. I meant to say your question rather than statement. Was not attempting to imply anything, the question was valid, just using 'foreign' seemed a bit ambiguous. (Would this include Irish nationals for example).
Interesting hearing about the Salmond/Putin reports. Not sure exactly what he admires, and also the context, however the mainstream press has not made a big fuss it seems, with opposition critics saying his comments were simply ill advised and poorly timed.
Would be interesting to see how many would react if the shoe was on the other foot, and comments like that had come from Alastair Darling though.
It means lowlander/Anglophone, you pleb.
I need your special dictionary then
It does not from any link I have seen nor do I know anyone who uses it as such Its route is the word Saxon hence the similarities between the gaelic, the irish word and the welsh word
Why do you think that it means anything other than English? I have never heard this - LINK or are you being sarcastic and about to claim you were joking?
From wiki
In the Celtic languages, the word for the English nationality is derived from the Latin Saxones. The most prominent example, a loan word in English, is the Gàidhlig Sassenach (Saxon), often used disparagingly in Scottish English/Scots. It derives from the Scottish Gaelic Sasunnach meaning, originally, "Saxon", from the Latin "Saxones". As employed by Scots or Scottish English-speakers today it is usually used in jest, as a (friendly) term of abuse. The Oxford English Dictionary (OED) gives 1771 as the date of the earliest written use of the word in English.
Sasanach, the Irish language word for an Englishman, has the same derivation, as do the words used in Welsh to describe the English people (Saeson, sing. Sais) and the language and things English in general: Saesneg and Seisnig. These words are normally, however, used only in the Irish and Welsh languages themselves.
Cornish also terms English Sawsnek from the same derivation. In the 16th century, the phrase 'Meea navidna cowza sawzneck!' to feign ignorance of the English language was used in Cornish.[5]
England, in Gàidhlig, is Sasainn (Saxony). Other examples are the Welsh Saesneg (the English language), Irish Sasana (England), Breton saoz(on) (English, saozneg "the English language", Bro-saoz "England"), and Cornish Sowson (English people) and Sowsnek (English language), Pow Sows for 'Land [Pays] of Saxons'.
Not sure exactly what he admires
According to the linked article he admires Putin for having "restored national pride" and being "effective".
National pride is a fairly meaningless concept imo. Many Americans, for example, will proudly fly in the stars and stripes in their front gardens but it doesn't mean that they give a toss about their fellow Americans or the common good. National pride does not equate patriotism, although I can see the attraction for Salmond as he tries to appeal to meaningless petty nationalism.
I suspect what Salmond really admires with regards to Putin is his poll ratings.
Aye I think you have it there ernie
I have no idea WTF he meant it was bit like praising Hitler for unifying germany tbh
A proper foot in mouth moment by AS up there with his Iceland/Tiger economy speech
Why do you think that it means anything other than English? I have never heard this....
I've heard it said that it refers to a lowlander, although never an Anglophone.
I always understood it belonged to non Gaelic speaking Southerners,at one time from the Highlands down,who didn't follow the old ways e.g. the clan system.It was used in dispatches to describe the city council in Glasgow who refused to open the gates to Bonnie Prince Charlie's army by Donald McDonald, an islander. Last 20/30 years it is increasingly a description for the English as we are all English speakers up here now.
All the dictionaries say that sassanach means english. I do remember hearing the word used to mean a person from south of the highland line like Duckman I think the change in meaning is a fairly recent thing.
EDIT The different spellings prompted me to try the dictionary of the scots language which says
DSL - SND1 SASSENACH, adj., n. Also Sassanoch, -enagh, Sasennach, -unnach; the form in the 1706 quot. represents the Gael.pl. Sasunnaich. English, English-speaking, formerly also applied to the Lowlanders of Scotland; as a n., an Englishman or -woman. The word was orig. put in the mouths only of Highlanders but is now in somewhat jocular use throughout Scotland. [?s?s?n?x]
*Sc. 1706 Letters from E.C. to E.W. Concerning the Union 6:
We call them Sassanich, in Latin Saxi or Saxoni.
*Sc. 1737 J. Drummond Memoirs Locheill (1842) 113:
The English (or “Sassanoch”, that is, Saxons, as they call them in their language).
*Sc. 1771 Smollett Humphrey Clinker, Melford to Phillips (3 Sept.):
The Highlanders have no other name for the people of the Low country, but Sassenagh, or Saxons.
Given that the region that is now Lowland Scotland was settled quite extensively by the Saxon invaders in the C5th & C6th to the point that later Anglo-Saxon records describe the remaining pocket of non-Saxon lowlanders as the 'Strathclyde Welsh'* then the old meaning of the word does seem to be more accurate.
*Welsh is derived from Walesch, meaning foreigner/other in Old English i believe.
just using 'foreign' seemed a bit ambiguous
The topic was attitudes to foreigners. How else would you discuss it without using the word "foreign" (or its derivatives)?
Meanwhile, I'm really enjoying being corrected by English people about what the correct definition of Scots words (used in this thread as an insult by an English person against English people). It's almost as much fun as when a bunch of Americans were telling me the kilt isn't a skirt and any true Scotsman would take offence to me saying so.
gordimhor - Member
All the dictionaries say that sassanach means english. I do remember hearing the word used to mean a person from south of the highland line like Duckman ...
That's what I was taught - south of the Highland line, so it included Lowlanders and English, basically non-Gaelic speakers, and not an insult.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/apr/28/alex-salmond-fisheries-eu-scotland
I wonder if hell threaten to cut off the EUs oil supply next? Although he'd need to ignore Scottish waters actual oil production and the EUs oil consumption first. Maybe that's what he likes about Vlad, that he can turn the energy taps off?
Slightly different.
http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/eu-denies-alex-salmond-s-claim-over-living-wage-1-3391162