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we'll happily make the payments as required. we'll have the gold etc upfront though.michaelbowden - Member
seosamh77 - Member
so we'll just take our 9% of the gold reserves and bank of England assets. Lets see what that does to the value of the pound eh?And we'll deduct your 9% of UK debit from that 9% of the Gold Reserves. I wonder who will owe who......?
If you transfer reserves, then it would be natural to reduce money supply as you would have a slightly smaller economy. The ratio of money supply to reserves would then be maintained and so there would be a limited to no impact on sterling's worth. It is not rocket science, just central banking.
It is not just the US, London was the sixth biggest city in the French presidential election. I am not convinced it is that complicated to allow those who were born in Scotland to register to vote in the referendum - let them come to you. However, it would based on anecdotal evidence be detrimental to the yes campaign
which, goes to prove that the residency test is correct.big_n_daft - Member
I'm surprised that property prices didn't go through the roof with all the returning diaspora coming home to register to vote so they could ensure a "yes" for a new independent homeland
seosamh77 - Membermichaelbowden - Member
seosamh77 - Member
so we'll just take our 9% of the gold reserves and bank of England assets. Lets see what that does to the value of the pound eh?And we'll deduct your 9% of UK debit from that 9% of the Gold Reserves. I wonder who will owe who......?
we'll happily make the payments as required. we'll have the gold etc upfront though.
Is this just another case of 'this suits iS so this is the way it'll be'??
Alternatively, rUK could offer to 'pay' its gold debt to iS over the same period that iS offers to pay its proportion of the UK debt....
I currently have a British Passport, if Scotland is no longer part of Britain, then I can't have a British passport, I will need a Scottish one (although I believe I can hold onto my British one until it expires).
Read my link above, you'll most likely be able to stay a British citizen like the rest of us, though that depends on the rUK government not going all Theresa May.
Though as it's quite possible Scotland will stay in the EU while the rUK leaves, it might be an idea to get yourself a Scottish passport if you want to keep working in the EU.
Why are we arguing about this? The vote directly effects those who live in Scotland, so it's those people who make the decision. Seems pretty simple. As soon as you get into letting people with Scottish heritage vote it quickly becomes a cluster **** who who was born where and who lived where when. Keep it simple. You live here, you get a vote. You don't, tough.
Not sure what the numbers involved has to do with anything - surely it's the principle which is important here, and you appeared to claim that the franchise was the same as every country in the world including the US when that's quite clearly not the case.
Yes, I made the mistake of making a statement without including a footnote to the effect that maybe 1 in 10,000 non-US-born people could vote in US elections but that was because the US has fixed rules about what makes someone a citizen.
Whereas we also have fixed rules about what makes someone eligible to vote in the referendum, rules agreed by all parties including the UK government. So meh - it's a bit late to start whining about it now. Anyone who's really bothered has until midnight to move up here and buy a house 😉
which, goes to prove that the residency test is correct.
Does it? In what way?
As soon as you get into letting people with Scottish heritage vote it quickly becomes a cluster **** who who was born where and who lived where when.
So yS are wrong with their fairly simple citizenship definition?
No, I think the rules for citizenship after a yes vote are fine, but it would be a royal pain in the arse to apply those to voting in the referendum. It can be hard enough to trace a family through official records when researching family history, never mind trying to verify potentially millions of people who want to vote in the referendum, especially if they won't be directly effected by the result as they don't live here.
If you are Scottish and not resident here, you have already voted - with your feet.
Perhaps this is unfortunate because all the overseas Scots I know would vote Yes.
Yes, I made the mistake of making a statement without including a footnote to the effect that maybe 1 in 10,000 non-US-born people could vote in US elections but that was because the US has fixed rules about what makes someone a citizen.
Still not sure what the numbers has to do with it. Maybe a footnote to explain that the US does allow people who don't live in that country to vote in the elections. Actually given your "every country in the world" claim and mefty's comment above, is there a single example of a country you can find you wouldn't need to add to that footnote? Or maybe it would have been simpler not to make a statement which is so demonstrably false?
(I'm also curious why you keep picking on people not born in the US to use for your figures, when the disenfranchisement for the referendum is far wider than that)
imo, and lets be honest, this is another question of opinion, is that if people don't live here and don't have any set date for returning(if they do they can get a vote). Then their links to scotland are tenuous at best imo and they shouldn't be getting a vote. If they want a vote they are welcome to return.aracer - Member
which, goes to prove that the residency test is correct.
Does it? In what way?
Surely you lot must realise that most of your "facts" are subject to just as much spin as everything else?
Out of interest, can non UK resident British citizens vote in general elections? I don't think you can but I'm willing to be proved wrong. The voting criteria for the referendum seem spot on imo.
It's interesting as this got brought up by an expat scot complaining he wouldn't get to exercise his no vote, as some sort of gerrymandering. Which would maybe have some justification if we excluded english voters that are resident(that'd you'd have to say will largely vote no).. But well we haven't so...epicyclo - Member
If you are Scottish and not resident here, you have already voted - with your feet.Perhaps this is unfortunate because all the overseas Scots I know would vote Yes.
yip, my recurring point throughout the thread.molgrips - Member
Surely you lot must realise that most of your "facts" are subject to just as much spin as everything else?
Predictions of doom are far wide of the mark, and predictions of utopia are similarly wide...
Scotland will be a successful nation somewhere in the middle(assuming a yes vote which is still in the underdog position.)
lets be honest, this is another question of opinion
Something with which I have no problem at all, it's only when it's described as "proof" it becomes an issue. Clearly the general principle of franchise used by most countries (contrary to Ben's claims) is different though.
can non UK resident British citizens vote in general elections?
http://www.aboutmyvote.co.uk/register_to_vote/british_citizens_living_abroad.aspx
I currently have a British Passport, if Scotland is no longer part of Britain, then I can't have a British passport, I will need a Scottish one
wrong
are the many thousands of Scots in throughout Europe (including England) going to have to get work permits?
no.
The Scottish vote for independence has the potential to affect the day to day life of many thousands of Scots living outside Scotland
I don't see it affecting my daily life
as such they should have a say in what happens.
it you wanted to be a full member of the Scottish political community, you should've stayed there.
[quote> http://www.aboutmyvote.co.uk/register_to_vote/british_citizens_living_abroad.aspx
Huh, well there you go. Seems a bit daft to me that you can vote in general elections in a country you haven't lived in for up to 15 years, but there you go.
Scotland will be a successful nation somewhere in the middle
What do we want? Mediocrity! When do we want it? Evermore!
contrary to Ben's claims
Look, I said I was sorry - I forgot how anal and nitpicky some people can be 😉
"The vast majority of people outside the US do not get to vote in US elections, even though those elections have a big impact on their lives"
There, is that a better statement covering all the bases?
11 hours, 36 minutes to get up here and buy that house 😀
aye, welcome to the UK! 😉ninfan - Member
What do we want? Mediocrity! When do we want it? Evermore!
What do we want? Mediocrity! When do we want it? Evermore!
I'm fine with mediocrity - look at all the trouble trying to be important on the world stage has gotten us into.
After a bit of Googling I think I have this BOE Gold issue down, now never one for being great at maths excuse any errors,
BOE Kg Gold £/Kg
310300 £24,715 £ 7,669,064,500
iS share 9% £ 690,215,805
UK Debt £1,417,978,690,000
iS share 9% £ 127,618,082,100
rUK owes iS -£ 126,927,866,295
Now they're all very big numbers but I'm fairly sure that iS's share of the BOE gold reserve is sweet fanny adams when comparerd to its share of the UK debt.
Edit - What happened to all my formatting?
yip, my recurring point throughout the thread.
Predictions of doom are far wide of the mark, and predictions of utopia are similarly wide...Scotland will be a successful nation somewhere in the middle(assuming a yes vote which is still in the underdog position.)
Top post, seosamh. Apart from Darling I don't think there are many on the No side who won't admit iS can be successful, just as apart from Salmond there aren't that many claiming it will be utopia. Though I suspect that quite a few Yes supporters do believe the utopia claims.
What do we want? we don't know or care as long as it frees us from the yoke of English opression & tyranny!
When do we want it? Evermore!
Actually the BoE reserves are around £403bn.
As you were.
bencooper - Member
We may go around and around - but the DO still can't get it straight.
Ah, good old THM, yet again you turn someone pointing out you're completely wrong into an attack on Alex SalmondPOSTED 1 HOUR AGO # REPORT-POST
Ben, good luck substantiating that post. I was responding to the post attacking me specifically on the current point. Please tell me where I am completely wrong on that. BTW, you may want to remember that the DO finally admitted on air that he (not me) was wrong and that he tried to make is believe (his words now) that "we haven't argued it's the currency that's the asset, it's the financial assets of the UK." Does he have a hot line to the marines???
At least he has been dragged into admitting that. Let's see if he tries the old trick again before the 18th.
Lies on the currency, lies on NHS......the list is long. A house built on sand may be your own, but....
Lies on the currency, lies on NHS......the list is long. A house built on sand may be your own, but....
I really hope you put as much effort into exposing the lies and hypocrisy of the UK Government.
Lies on the NHS, lies on student fees, lies on spending cuts, lies on VAT... the list goes on and on.
michaelbowden - Member
seosamh77 - Member
so we'll just take our 9% of the gold reserves and bank of England assets. Lets see what that does to the value of the pound eh?And we'll deduct your 9% of UK debit from that 9% of the Gold Reserves. I wonder who will owe who......?
Don't worth Michael, understanding how a balance sheet is structured and works is not a yS strong point. If the First Minister doesn't understand it*, then no surprise that yes supporters can't either.
* "if you don't let us share your debt, we won't share your debt." And you want to trust people who spout such nonsense to look after your interests? Bizarre.
Look, I said I was sorry
Sorry, I missed that, apology accepted 😉
I'm not sure if it's nitpicky to suggest that your latest footnote doesn't quite explain the significant difference in franchise between US elections and the Scottish referendum by not actually mentioning the difference for people born there. I'm sure it wasn't your intention to miss off that important information, so how about:
"unlike the Scottish referendum, in most other elections people born but not currently resident in a country do get to to vote"
"unlike the Scottish referendum, in most other elections people born but not currently resident in a country do get to to vote"
I'm still not sure why that's the case though. Why [i]should[/i] you get a vote if you're not resident in that country?
bencooper - Member
Actually the BoE reserves are around £403bn.As you were.
You might want to check that!!!!
As you were.
I really hope you put as much effort into exposing the lies and hypocrisy of the UK Government.
I have to admit if the UK government was calling for independence from some other body I'm not sure I'd vote yes either on that basis. I wonder about the lies and hypocrisy of the next level up...
bencooper - MemberActually the BoE reserves are around £403bn.
As you were.
My Figures were for GOLD reserves as taken from here as this is what was mentioned by seaosamh77
[url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_reserve ]WIKKI[/url]
However, if your figure is correct for the BOE's total reserves the principal remains. iS will OWE rUK a whole shed load more from its 9% of the UK debt than it will ever get from its 9% of the BOE reserves.
Circa
£91,348,082,100
especially, if you are only claiming there is 7 billion in gold reserves, and ignoring all other assets.! 😀Don't worth Michael, understanding how a balance sheet is structured and works is not a yS strong point. If the First Minister doesn't understand it*, then no surprise that yes supporters can't either.
Why should you get a vote if you're not resident in that country?
Dunno, not an expert on electoral franchise, it seems to be quite standard though so I'm assuming somebody who knows better thinks it a good idea.
""unlike the Scottish referendum, in most other elections people born but not currently resident in a country do get to to vote"
it's not enough to be born somewhere, you have to be a citizen. there's no Scottish citizenship because there is no Scottish state. suggesting that a referendum on the creation of a Scottish state should be determined on the basis of putative quasi-citizenship of a state that doesn't exist is absurd.
and if you really wanted a voice, you shouldn't have buggered off in the first place or should have moved back when the vote was on the table.
I did the analysis on page 13, you need to look at net assets as the reserves back up money issued. If we transfer the reserves, then we would also reduce money supply so the net balance sheet position would be much smaller.
Here is my earlier post
The Bank of England's balance sheet consists of assets - securites, repo and other advances to banks etc, gold etc, loans to government of £400 billion, it has liabilities of £400 including notes issued the pounds in your pocket and borrowing (dominated by its Asset Purchase Faciltity). Its net assets are £3 billion so on your argument you would be entitled to 9% of these which would be £270 million. You've then got your share of the pound and the reserves - well done.
it seems to be quite standard though
We've got a data set of 2 on this thread so far.
3 - US, France, UK. I think those are the only ones which have been checked, though feel free to add some more.
I'm not claiming their won't be a deficit, they will be, as the UK has been run like shit for god knows how long.mefty - Member
I did the analysis on page 13, you need to look at net assets as the reserves back up money issued. If we transfer the reserves, then we would also reduce money supply so the net balance sheet position would be much smaller.Here is my earlier post
The Bank of England's balance sheet consists of assets - securites, repo and other advances to banks etc, gold etc, loans to government of £400 billion, it has liabilities of £400 including notes issued the pounds in your pocket and borrowing (dominated by its Asset Purchase Faciltity). Its net assets are £3 billion so on your argument you would be entitled to 9% of these which would be £270 million. You've then got your share of the pound and the reserves - well done.
Point is that there are assets and there are debts, and they will be split. ie armies, banks assets, government holdings etc etc etc etc.
There' are 1.25 trillion in assets that the UK hold. the debt is about 1.4 trillion.
page 43
Total assets (billions, 2012) £1,267.6
When you let the debt outstrip the assets, I call that bad management. Another good reason to go it alone.
You seem to be mixing up rather a lot of things there....
Never mind, it's not about the financials is it!?!
The UK has been run like shit for god knows how long....
Hmmmm,......