[Closed] Osbourne says no to currency union.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/05/26/european-elections-alex-salmond-ukip-bbc-video_n_5391239.html?utm_hp_ref=uk

The DO was quite clear about the BBC's role in UKIPs success. Although for a change there was at least a grain of truth in what he was saying this time.

However, hIs ability to keep a straight face when avoiding DImbelby's point about the level of support remaining flat was brilliant even by his standards.

Nous attendons toujours......

I see AS has "gone off one one" again about the report which suggested iS would have a £1.5bn bill for duplicating government depart ers like tax (£750m alone) and DVLA etc. it's hard to know what the exact bills are going to be but they will be substantial.

It's interesting that UKIP got a Scottsih MEP, I suppose the SNP and Scotish Labour believe their pro EU stance represents the region (see what I did there 😉 ) but it's clear there is a body of voters worried about the EU. I just wonder how much greater that would be if voters felt adopting the euro was a real possibility

I don't get all of this anti EU sentiment. Continental cheese is fantastic and the women aren't half bad after you have got them to shave their arm pits.

All this hostility towards the BBC, blaming them for UKIP winning a seat?

Just a couple of months ago you were telling us how project fear were recklessly threatening to take it away - now you're saying you don't want it after all - make your bloody minds up 😆

it's hard to know what the exact bills are going to be but they will be substantially less than paying for trident .

FTFY

Well, it's made me decide I don't care any more. I don't care if we get a currency union, I don't care if we get kicked out of the EU and NATO, I don't care if it costs me money. I want out.
That Euro election result showed me that those are all prices worth paying to get away from the toxic, xenophobic politics south of the border.

Well, it's made me decide I don't care any more. I don't care if we get a currency union, I don't care if we get kicked out of the EU and NATO, I don't care if it costs me money. I want out.

That Euro election result showed me that those are all prices worth paying to get away from the toxic, xenophobic politics south of the border.

[url= http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/25/neil-lennon-persecution-shames-scotland-celtic-manager ]Yep. All that kind of stuff is confined to south of the border.[/url] 🙂

PS: I thought you had already made up your mind, plus everyone's you had spoken to 🙂

Ukip are newsworthy because they are new.Hence coverage disproportionate to their vote.I console myself with the idea that this will be a high point for the provisional wing of the Tory party. Turnout was very low,people give a poo about general elections,that will be reflected in them being a footnote in history in a couple of years,hopefully just after nige gets jailed for fiddling his expenses.

UKIP have around for twenty years so the 'newsworthy because they are new' argument sounds a little weak. But I do agree with not being unduly concerned about UKIP now being a credible long term potent political force - for various reasons including the fact that they have no significant substance imo.

What, Farage is "not whiter than white" 😉 either. Another similarity. Perhaps they could enjoy doing time together then? Has Farage been cosying up to the "dirty digger" too?

konabunny - Member
Do you think it might be worth taking a breath and seeing the election in historical perspective? The UK has had centuries of stability. A novelty party getting a few euro seats is no reason to chuck a tanty and bin the lot.

If they get the balance of power, this is what Scotland has to look forward to.

[img] [/img]

That's not a very good picture of Lord Monckton, in fact it doesn't look anything like him.

Here's a much better one.

[img] [/img]

That's terrible Ernie,taking a picture of the poor man during his visit to the proctologist is low IMO. "Trampled bagpipe" is excellent mind you,but alas,factually incorrect as at anything up to £1200 a set,and us being tight,no Scot is going to leave them where they might get stood on.

"Trampled bagpipes" for a moment I was hopeful that geezer in the layby off the A82 had finally cracked and trashed his own [s]cat screeching bags[/s] bagpipes.

I'd say judging by Ernie's pic, he's trampled on some bagpipes, and a subsidy junkie is putting them where they don't belong.

But more likely it's an environmentalist engaging with one of the leading intellects of the No Global Warming set.

UKIP is popular because their one policy, leave the EU, is popular. This isn't purely a UK phenomenon of course, results have been similar across Europe, as I posted elsewhere in Spain and Greece it's the left wing parties than are anti-Europe, elsewhere it's the right. The common ground is that the EU is not popular and the one party speaking about that is UKIP.

The Scottish member has got off to a flyer. It would seem that gay marriage takes back the gains that "gay liberation or whatever you call it," have made,despite being gay himself. Oh, and the SNP are "a bunch of Edinburgh Advocates doing the Highland fling." This is going to be ace,in a car crash type of way.

Blame the BBC all you want but the truth is a significant amount of the Scottish people support their policies:

http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/seven-out-of-ten-scots-back-ukip-policy-on-immigration.24278719

For clarity not popular means circa 25% of the electorate, across the EU, vote for anti EU parties. Its not even all countries either the Dutch for example

It is is still a minority view.

the truth is a significant amount of the Scottish people support their policies:

MMMM which to put most weight on, it is a tough call

I'd quite like to see Salmond attempt the (Hoka) Highland Fling.

@Junkyard - the EU elections do typically have a modest turn out but our system of democracy can only count the votes actually cast. There might have only been 1 in 10 people who voted for UKIP the point is that it's more than who voted for the other parties.

There might have only been 1 in 10 people who voted for UKIP the point is that it's more than who voted for the other parties.

Are we talking Scotland or UK here? Edit, you are replying to Junkyard. I take it you mean Scotland,in which case they polled 10.3% of the vote,still well behind the main "other" parties.

TOTAL VOTES CAST

SNP 389,503

Lab 348,219

Con 231,330

UKIP 140,534

Green 108,305

LD 95,319

Britain First 13551

BNP 10150

NO 2 EU 6388

There might have only been 1 in 10 people who voted for UKIP the point is that it's more than who voted for the other parties.

it is not true for scotland which is what we are discussinf
It is true for rUK so it is another reason for them to leave then 😉

Well there is the comedy of AS speech coming up. Apparently highlights will include:

Scotland would become independent "in more promising circumstances than virtually any nation in history", the first minister is to say.

[b]according[/b] to Auntie. The fiscal deficit will no doubt be airbrushed then among other things.

The Scottish government will also unveil its own analysis, which it said would demonstrate "Scotland's financial strengths and the economic opportunities [b]that only come with independence[/b]".

And yet you will be proposing asking those despised Westminster Tories in a foreign country to set you economic policies. Wouldn't it be great, if they were straight just for once. If it can only come with independence, put that on the table.......unless it's that obvious why you won't!

Apologies - I was talking nationally, appreciate that this is a Scottish thread so not relevant. It seems logical UKIP is weak in Scotland as I imagine it's seen as very "English" and in any case you have your own nationalist party in the SNP ,whether the SNP is left/centre/right is irrelevant as its the nationalist argument which is important. I do see the Herald piece highlighted that immigration and EU law making was a concern is Scotland. I do fear the Scot's don't realise they will have to be totally EU compliant if they join post independence.

@tmh - the economic opportunities will include cutting corporation tax to levels at below/Ireland in order to encourage businesses to relocate to/remain in Scotland.

Amazon and Starbucks already planning a move to a greenfield site in Cumbernauld?

I was talking nationally, appreciate that this is a Scottish thread so not relevant

Lets no get too excited about UKIP's single Scottish MEP.

The polled fourth in Scotland, without the Lib Dem collapse they wouldn't have stood a chance of getting an MEP.

Its an entirely different situation to England where UKIP were first in every region except London

Its an entirely different situation to England where UKIP were first in every region except London

The SNPs message is about a Scotland for Scottish people's benefit of course run by Scots. That's exactly what Marine Le Pen says about France, all the dialogue and rhetoric is about about equal opportunity for all French, as per UKIP in the UK. In Spain and Greece the nationalist parties are from the left. It's not a left/right question but it is one about Nationalism and that's very strong in Scotland too.

[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/10859064/Barclays-Independent-Scotland-likely-to-get-new-currency.html ]More support for a currency union[/url]

Front page of the Financial Times:

[img] [/img]

The Treasury manipulated the figures to make the cost of independence look [i]ten times[/i] bigger. If you're going to lie, may as well make it a whopper...

If true, that is as pointless as it is shocking. The case is flimsy enough - there was no need for stupidity.

Bloody politicians.

Never mind that what you doing disagreeing with me on helmet threads 😉
I do agree though it is the great thing about STW
FWIW i dont always wear a helmet but i always do the same as my kids - hypocrisy was what i objected to there. One of the areas where STW debates changed what I do.

TBH i was more interested in why Barclays reckon there is a 10 % chance of the Euro- seems a bit high tbh. Re the article we all know ALL politicians are lying bastards , that is not news to anyone.

@Rich I think its a very similar situation, the nationalist parties (SNP / UKIP) came first. It just showed itself slightly differently.

@ben - I read a couple of days ago the piece which suggested a max of £2.5 and a likely cost of £1.5 The reality is none of us really know, that in itself is an issue.

@junkyard, I'm surprised Barclays probability is so low, I think he euro is inevitable for an independent Scotland which joins the EU.

Anyone here have a view on Junckers (likely new EU president) stance regarding Scotland joining ?

They were just on Radio 4 with the SNP fell arguing each person [ migh thave been houshold] will be thousands better off wiht Danny boy arguing it will be billions worse off

As i said two lying bastards lying.

It probably is inevitable for iS but in that sense it is probably inevitable for rUK - however we are talking decades if not longer for this. It is not inevitable it will happen in 18 months time. It is probably inevitable they have to commit to it but do nothing more than that, Will be interesting to see if they would rather be in the Euro zone or alone though

Junkers is interesting as the parliament proposed him when they cannot do this , they are starting to assert power against the "kings" [ elected leaders of the member countries]
I know nothing if their views on that issue or any other tbh

@JY - I've long held the view that if you're in the EU you have to join the euro/single currency eventually, that applies to the UK too although given our longstanding membership and strength/size we have been able to stay out for the time being. Problem is that the failings of the current currency setup have been laid bare and as it stands it would be madness to join now and it seems unlikely the necessary reforms will be implemented anytime soon. I think Scotland is going to be in a tricky place trying to join the EU and attempting to stay out of the euro.

Others have and the EU is expansionist in nature and this would be the first member they lose - all be it a strange manner.

i think there is more chance of them being refused entry than being forced to join the Euro [ though they will have to "commit"]
Like 99% of this tbh we do not know what will happen but i think they can avoid the Euro if they wish to

@ben - I read a couple of days ago the piece which suggested a max of £2.5 and a likely cost of £1.5 The reality is none of us really know, that in itself is an issue.

Thing is, it's not just Yes and the SNP saying the Treasury's figures are rubbish, it's the very economist they based the figures on. Since the Scottish government already has departments for most things, we need four new ones - defence, foreign affairs, a reorganised HMRC, and a reorganised DWP.

the very economist they based the figures on

[url= http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/cf63cf8c-e5b4-11e3-a7f5-00144feabdc0.html?siteedition=uk#axzz3309GGinP ]Financial Times comment on costs[/url]

And this is where the No movement have gone so wrong.

Rather than the usual subtle lies and misinformation they have jumped in using Baron Munchausen's Manual of Bovine Excrement and relied on us being too stupid to see through this sort of thing.

Which may work if you have a total control over the media (as they appear to), but unfortunately for them we now have the internet, so the tactics that worked in previous referenda don't work now.

So the Treasury gets caught red-handed lying about figures - what does the BBC do? Spin it as "contrasting claims".

This is the same BBC who gave hourly coverage to the astroturfing Vote No Borders group, giving them more coverage in one day than they've given any pro-independence group ever.

I know I keep going on about the BBC, but they're supposed to be held to a higher standard of impartiality.

Rather a political own goal to come up with an estimate which is so open to ridicule.

they cut before the questions though so that would have been interesting

It is behind a firewall epicyclo precise please

@JY - if you Google the article title ("data on costs of Scottish government misleading") and access it that way you can read it (after answering one or two marketing questions)

This tool is quite fun 8)

[url= http://lmgtfy.com/?q=data+on+cost+of+scottish+government+misleading ]Let Me Google That for You[/url]

So it is my fault hegave the wrong link then 😉

I did that and did not even have to give any info- I have to confess not use your link just in case it was wrong 😛

Seriously though Thanks

But Prof Dunleavy points out three problems with the Treasury’s working. First, not all 180 bodies would be major departments; second several departments already exist in Scotland and would simply need to be enlarged; third, his estimate applied to the “chaotic” way in which the last Labour government established new departments, not to a planned, orderly transition. He estimated the set-up costs would be closer to £150m-£200m.

He told the FT that based on an advance briefing last week the Treasury’s release “is seriously misleading”.