[Closed] OS: Tell me about running trainers

There is a video of Joe Friel talking about the various aspects of running technique, he reckons thinking about forefoot striking is a good place to start for most runners (but its about the weight landing on the forefoot, not running on tiptoes which is where the heel kiss comes in, what is viewable by observation and how it feels to the runner don't always add up to the same thing), but its when you increase the cadence that all the different aspects come together.

For me it's not an either or thing. I've a pair of flats that I use for shorter distances and sprinting, and a chusioned pair that I use for longer distances when I know I'm not going to be able to concentrate all the time.

Ascis GT1260 and innov8 f 195

my times are generally slower in flats over 10k distances

See I know fast runners, I know fast forefoot runners, I know forefoot evangelists. The fast people mostly just are fast and their technique is what it is. I know forefoot evangelists who've got so bogged down in drills and technique they've lost the simple joy of just going for a run. I'd like to see more proof from the evangelists that they can run hard and injury free. And I'm fully aware that speed isn't only way to measure success or fun. But it's one way, and fairly easy to measure.

Me, I'm a kisser that tries to be light on his feet, keep a cadence up, lift with the hams, in lightly built shoes, without interfering with the simple joy thing. I've got countless hours of technique ingrained that would take a bit of unravelling. Whilst I'm still improving and not getting injured I'll probably continue not being that arsed.

What shoes? to Barefoot Bingo. Ten posts everytime. Other gaits are available, your mileage may vary.

I've a pair of flats that I use for shorter distances and sprinting, and a chusioned pair that I use for longer distances

Now, I wasn't sure about this - I haven't used my normal shoes since getting the flats. I figured that I'm trying to train my legs to run like that, so why would I go back?

The fast people mostly just are fast and their technique is what it is

Yeah but however fast you are you might be faster still with a different technique.

tries to be light on his feet

Right.. but what does that actually mean? I'm trying to be light on my feet by landing more on the forefoot.

On longer runs I land forefoot first then my whole foot ends up taking the weight.

I've a pair of flats that I use for shorter distances and sprinting, and a chusioned pair that I use for longer distances

This is the very advice I was given in a running shop when I bought my flats.

Turns out the trainers I have already are racing flats too. Good job I'm a neutral runner and have no aspirations of running further than a half marathon.

Molly did you read that thing I linked to? Chances are that by running faster you'll end up striking further forward on your foot anyway.

Seems that evidence for barefoot running is sketchy if not completely non-existant.

[i]who've got so bogged down in drills and technique they've lost the simple joy of just going for a run.[/i]

This.

I decided to be a fell runner, bought some fell shoes and some cheap road shoes and did it. It's the doing that counts, not the technique, its the racing that counts, not the gait analysis.

'You're just lucky, you don't get injured like me'

Cobblers, I just made sure I built up to everything slowly and carefully ending up doing 45 miles a week plus racing.

Back to the OP, how long have you used the cheap trainers? I probably have a very similar pair of adidas sports soccer specials, at first they were a bit tight like all adidas but after a few runs they were fine and I have used them for 3+ years with no problems up until now where I am getting foot cramps so will change them soon. So you need to give your shoes a chance. I will probably buy a lighter weight trainer next time, Nike lunarglide and free run look interesting as do Puma's FAAS range, they have improved their range with Bolt being a great marketing tool. Asics and NB also seem popular so I will look at their ranges.

What are your running goals to lose weight or become a reasonably fast runner, maybe both. To lose weight you want to burn as many calories as possible so a lot of upper body is fine maybe interval sprinting will be better than a long slow 5km. To run fast over 5km/10km etc you need less upper body movement, check out the difference between Bolt and Farah. Farah only really starts using lots of energy towards the last couple of laps.

Seems that evidence for barefoot running is sketchy if not completely non-existant.

[i]Seems that evidence for barefoot running is sketchy if not completely non-existant.[/i]

Quite true. If only people acknowledged the same holds true for raised heels in shoes, we'd be making progress 🙂

The fast people mostly just are fast and their technique is what it is.

lol! That is so true! What shoes you have is going to make little difference until your getting quick times and even then it is minimal, the only reason I would change your shoes is if they are uncomfortable.

Agreed... I just can't help thinking barefoot is a bit of a fad though.

Running should be allowed to have it's 29ers too 🙂

For me it's not an either or thing. I've a pair of flats that I use for shorter distances and sprinting, and a chusioned pair that I use for longer distances when I know I'm not going to be able to concentrate all the time.

This is the best advice on the thread.

Phat Shoes...

[img] [/img]

Yeti - Humans have only been using cushioned running shoes for the last 3 decades. Heel strike and cushioned shoes are just a passing fad in our 200,000 year evolutionary history.

What do they run in then? Only post if you actually know and are not just assuming.

Get off your barefoot high horse will you? I've not seen anyone running distance or competitively off track in barefoot shoes. Granted I have not examined every runner, but a half marathon, a couple of all-terrain races, some CaniX, a higher than averagely sporty peer group and Mrs TT's running club(s) seem a fairly broad view of things.

My point is that they may well work for some people - particularly those with a good style, gait and probably fairly slim build. The rest of us (imperfect gait, different length legs, old injuries, heavier than average) will probably be happy with 'normal' trainers. I suffered far less once I had been fitted for trainers best suited to me rather than just buying on looks. Elite athletes winning in lightweight shoes either run on a track or don't expect the shoes to last more than a few races, as well as having a good style and a much higher speed than us plodders.

As is tarmac and recreational running...

I've done dozens of events on road, trail, cross country and fell in the past few years. I've helped organise a couple. I know one barefooter by name that turns out regularly and have seen a handful of others. A couple more recreationally. And yes, I know not everyone races but there is definitely more internet noise about barefoot than the actual number of people doing it would suggest. Then there's Ian obviously 🙂

I am not an advocate of barefoot running, and don't run in barefoot shoes, but I do suggest many aspects of the technique involved in barefoot running could and should be applied to all running.
Improving technique and gait is better for injury prevention,injury is not an excuse to ignore gait and technique.

Ok. I walked into that one. Rocks, saltpans and sun backed mud are also hard...at least they are were I grew up in Africa and ran barefoot until begging my parents to buy me some fashionable trainers as a teenager. After 23 year of injuries, muscle aches and joint pain I've rediscovered the way I ran as a child. It works for me, it may not work for other, but it's worth looking into in order to make an informed choice.

MSP I think that if you're running ok in your trainers and your injury free then why change?

People get to wound up ( me included) by fashion and "science" on the Internet. There was a bloke on another running thread here who was saying, "

Ok. I walked into that one.

Ahh, but because of your forefoot striking technique, you've nimbly got away with it 🙂

My son has said he wants to start running when the nights get a bit longer and I'd like to start with him. We both need trainers, now I like the idea of 'barefoot' running but would it be a good idea for those new to running?

I've got 'funny feet' - high arches and wear to my heal of my right shoe which suggests overpronation. I'm not overweight and I'm fairly fit.

I like the look of those New Balance Minimus Trail Shoes, would they work for me on the road?

I've not seen anyone running distance or competitively off track in barefoot shoes

[url] http://www.inov-8.com/New/UK/News-Detail.asp?L=26&N=409 [/url]

A pretty high proportion of off-road races are won with x-talon 190s and bare-grip 200s.
These are classed as 'barefoot shoes'.
Granted it's a terrible term though.

MSP I think that if you're running ok in your trainers and your injury free then why change?

I guess it depends what your targets are, I am training to do a half ironman this year, I have always been an awful runner, overweight with bad gait and technique, there is no way I could do the mileage I need to do without improving my technique. I have tried to increase mileage in the past without working on technique and it has left me hobbling around in pain.

I don't ever think I will be a good runner, but I do think I can go faster and further with less injuries by improving my technique.

I also wonder if some of the people who say its rubbish, actually have pretty good technique to start with.

Running mid to long distance is about as natural as riding a mountain bike for a lot of people.

This argument of comparing the majority of UK runners to Africans running in barefeet just doesn't work. It might apply if you're 7 stone and have a family history going back for thousands of years of running for hours and hours.

I think my 15 stone frame and that of my father, his his ancestors before that were not designed to run 30 miles in bare feet at all, but rather are more suited to short sprints. We were probably good at fighting with massive swords and ploughing fields though.

It's horses for courses, innit?

A pretty high proportion of off-road races are won with x-talon 190s and bare-grip 200s.

I said 'off track', not 'off road'. Far more comfortable with the idea of traction over cushioning for off road running, but tarmac and concrete are a different thing (as are tracks).

I said 'off track', not 'off road'.

Oh dear what have I started....

I can't work out how to do the quote thing but in response to the above points/questions:

My trainers didnt feel as if my left arch was being supported, then after a while I ended up with a pain in my right hip which I've never had before. My route was a mixture of woodland singletrack and pavement/tarmac, about a 4 mile route. Also, although I tried the trainers on in the shop and they felt fine, and being a 10 in Adidas they just dont feel as comfortable as I think they should.

My main aim to just to do some other type of exercise other than cycling and to get back to my pre-xmas weight (dropping half a stone).

Thank you for the advice so far!

Nike cortez!

A pretty high proportion of off-road races are won with x-talon 190s and bare-grip 200s. These are classed as 'barefoot shoes'.

Oh christ I'm a barefooter after all! When do I start winning?

My main aim to just to do some other type of exercise other than cycling and to get back to my pre-xmas weight (dropping half a stone).

In that case I would start with some of those things you can buy to put in the shoes to support your arch. Then if that fails try another brand, you will have to ask on a running forum to find if Nike are wider than Asics or if NB have a better arch than Puma. Trying them on in a shop is not going to give you much info, so you will have to trust the shop assistant and online reviews. If it gets painful when running slow down or even stop, you need to wear in the trainers like any shoe. Although it should not take to long.

I like the look of the toggle on the Inov8 trainers but the sole looks like a child designed it.

To lose weight I have always found diet over exercise sees the best results, combine the two plus perhaps some press ups, sit ups, tricep dips and that half stone will fall off! Good luck

Saucony Progrids.

Molly did you read that thing I linked to? Chances are that by running faster you'll end up striking further forward on your foot anyway

Yes - but from my experience I want to be on my toes above about 8m/m pace, which I don't consider fast.

Get off your barefoot high horse will you?

I'm not on one - I've only made suggestions for people to look at, not tried to evangelise.

My point is that they may well work for some people - particularly those with a good style, gait and probably fairly slim build. The rest of us (imperfect gait, different length legs, old injuries, heavier than average) will probably be happy with 'normal' trainers.

The theory is that 'normal' shoes allow you to continue with imperfect technique and whatnot, whereas "barefoot style" shoes make you adopt a better technique. You have to do more work and use more muscles, but that benefits you in the end because you are using your muscles for stability not relying on the shape of your shoes.

Personally that appeals to my sense of physical aesthetics and completeness - call it purism if you like, it wouldn't be unfair.

As for fashion - I experimented with forefoot striking once on a treadmill without having read a single thing about it or knowing anything of the current fashion. Same speed, same conditions, I thought I'd try running like I do when I sprint, and it was amazing - like when you've been carrying a heavy rucksack and you take it off. I think I posted on here at the time and everyone replied saying 'yeah google for barefoot running'.

FWIW I started doing it with a pair of Brookes Ravenna which were sold to me after the running expert watched me run in about 15 different pairs, and I was labelled over-pronator. They still have the grey wedge but a much lower heel than previously and they are advertised as having 'support when you need it, not when you don't' - not sure what that means. They weren't bad at all but I still felt the heel was getting in my way, which is why I went looking for flat shoes and ended up with the NBs.

After a year or so I went for a run in the original shoes I'd bought which felt like boats - huge heels, really wide and awful to run in.

just be careful not to knacker your calf muscles up like I did. I'm still out of action with a strained soleus and inflamed achillies. I [i]was[/i] a fast 41min 10k cross country runner. Hoping to be back running in springtime.

Kev

I should add that I've never run far and I am quite happy to stop and walk when I feel a pain, even if it means walking home.

Has anyone got links to good training articles for technique etc?

Dr N Romanov's book on POSE running is useful. He's website http://forums.posetech.com/content.php may be of some use.

What kind of techniques are you interested in? Are you looking to change where on the foot you land like they are saying on this thread?

If we are talking setting personal fast times you need to conserve energy for a fast finish so just look at Mo Farah or Bernard Lagat. You need to run fast whilst being comfortable to set yourself up to basically sprint 800m as they are pushing bloddy hard those last two laps. I think the best way to do this is by keeping your upper body as still as possible, it is difficult to explain! lol!

I will also sometimes change my stride as I feel as though it gives me a rest even though I am not slowing but I doubt pro's change stride without changing pace.

I think the best tip would be don't get annoyed if you don't beat your record every week. Oh and leg it! 😆

I did actually drag this thread back up to add something useful:

The latest edition of Runners World has several pages covering barefoot running. From what I read, a number of people are concerned that it is the footwear leading the change rather than the form of the runner. There is nothing intrinsically wrong with barefoot, but much time and effort should be put in to ensuring the form matches the footwear - some 8 to 12 weeks needed to re-educate.

Just thought some people might appreciate the pointer to Runners World.