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Is there any actual evidence that eating plenty of fruit and veg leads to better athletic performance?
I just saw something at work where someone was emphasising the importance of a healthy diet for performance, but pondered on the impressive performance of some people on what might be considered a less than optimal diet.
I've seen plenty of studies where the levels of various chemicals within the body have been measured from which various inferences can be drawn, but are there any definitive studies where one group of athletes has eaten more fruit a veg and produced faster times than a control group who have been a stranger to green stuff?
most fruit gives very little nutrition.......fact.
I would have thought that the experiment cannot be ethically carried out in humans since it would mean providing a deliberately poor diet for an extended period of time to test the hypothesis.
I imagine up to a point it hads a large effect but after that point it makes no difference. I would guess this turning point isn't much different from the point at which you would suffer from diseases like scurvy or rickets.
At the very top of Olympic performance I think it might be the difference. But for normal people, don't live of chips? LOL
You want to ask a dietician, who have to be suitable qualified to call themselves such, not a nutritionist, who can be any old [s]Gillian McKeith[/s] quack.
And didn't Usain Bolt admit to enjoying a KFC a couple of hours before the Beijing 100m final?
I would have thought that the experiment cannot be ethically carried out in humans since it would mean providing a deliberately poor diet for an extended period of time to test the hypothesis.
There's more than one way to crack an egg.
Most studies that involve looking at people tend to find a group of 30/40/50/60/70/80/90somethings and asking them about their diet then checking up on them 5 or 10 years later to see who's dead. If you've a spread of people on similar diets over the whole range it's possible to infer how those diets affect them over the whole 60 years.
Therefore no one has had to change anything about their lives for the study and it's all ethical and above board.
most fruit gives very little nutrition.......fact
Where's that fact from?
i thought i had added one of these >>>>>>>> 😉
so ignore me.
Ahhh... fair dues.
😆
IHN - Member
You want to ask a dietician, who have to be suitable qualified to call themselves such
To be fair, anyone can call themselves just about anything !!
Anyway, there is now a professional accreditation and registration scheme for nutritionists and the membership criteria are actually more stringent than those to be a registered dietician,
but don't let the facts get in the way of your narrow mindedness eh 😆
Try telling that to my pirate friends with scurvy 🙂
Fruit is the best way and in some case the only way of getting vitamins and minerals (most people would call this nutrient) assuming you don't want to use Holland and Barrat. It is also high in fructose a sugar that would supply energy quickly. They are also very high in fiber. A regular bowel movement would reduce weight and without it you would be uncomfortable. BUT for high-energy exercise you really need to go for an increased complex carbohydrate diet i.e. pasta rice etc while muscle building requires a high protein diet. To sum up a balance diet i.e. veg and fruit but an increase/decrease in protein or complex carbohydrates depending on what you are training for.
Cough
[url= http://www.badscience.net/category/complementary-medicine/nutritionists/ ]www.badscience.net/category/complementary-medicine/nutritionists/
[/url]
But (ignoring the beetroot and buffering thing), there's never been anything along the lines of we gave this group of athletes an extra bowl of Broccoli each day and it took 10 seconds off their 10k time?
I think it's about how F&G and the micro-nutrients contained within help to stave off illness and ensure optimal recovery.
Could be talking BS though.
hilldodger - MemberTo be fair, anyone can call themselves just about anything !!
What? like nuclear scientist? Surgeon? Prime Minster? Arms/Explosives Search Dog Handler (bring your own dog)? Film Star?
stever - Member
Cough
http://www.badscience.net/category/complementary-medicine/nutritionists/
Spit
a four year out of date link from a failed medic turned journo/cod author, wow you've really got me there!
You keep taking the doctor's sweet little pills though 😆
maybe you can even google up that fat comic's YouTube clip for the clincher eh....
I only eat fruit. I have legs like a pretzel 🙂
[i]there is now a professional accreditation and registration scheme for nutritionists[/i]
Is the professional accreditation and registration scheme a legal requirement in order to call one's self a nutritionist? Or am I right in saying that anyone can call themselves a nutritionist?
[i]To be fair, anyone can call themselves just about anything [/i]
They can't call themselves a dietician.
a four year out of date link from a failed medic turned journo/cod author, wow you've really got me there!
You keep taking the doctor's sweet little pills though
I wasn't aware Ben Goldacre was either a failed medic or cod author. Can you provide a reference?
Dietician is a protected term. To quote the fat comedian, it's the difference between a dentist and a toothyologist.
I wasn't aware [b]Doctor [/b]Ben Goldacre was either a failed medic or cod author. Can you provide a reference?
FTFY.
[url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Goldacre ]Goldacre was educated at Magdalen College School, Oxford then studied medicine at Magdalen College, Oxford where he obtained a first class degree in his preclinical studies in 1995. While at Oxford he also edited the student magazine Isis. He was a visiting researcher in cognitive neuroscience at the University of Milan, working on fMRI brain scans of language and executive function, and then he went on to study clinical medicine at UCL Medical School and qualified as a medical doctor in 2000. He received a master's degree in philosophy (funded by the British Academy) from King's College London. He passed the MRCPsych Part II examinations in December 2005 and became a member of the Royal College of Psychiatrists. In 2008 he was a research fellow at the Institute of Psychiatry, King's College London. As of November 2009[update], Goldacre is a psychiatric registrar and Guardian research fellow at Nuffield College, Oxford.[/url]
If that's failing, sign me up
In the words of Jim Royle: Failed? My arse.
stever - Member
I wasn't aware Ben Goldacre was either a failed medic or cod author. Can you provide a reference?
well how about from his own website.....
....Really sorry, I’m not really a writer
One book, cobbled together from newspaper columns - Cod author by anyone's definition
and also from his website
Ben is 36 and currently works full time as an academic in epidemiology
"failed medic" a term used in the medical profession for someone who gains a medical qualification, then sees little or no clinical activity but uses the title to add emphasis to their off-topic activities.
[i]then sees little or no clinical activity but uses the title to add emphasis to their off-topic activities. [/i]
But he works full time in medicine, specifically, according to your post, epidemiology.
Anyway, let's get the question answered about nutritionists - can anyone call themselves one?
Yes.
Going back on topic, there is more and more evidence that eating the 5 a day is actually quite bad for you considering our high sugar modern diets.
Low carb is the way forward! Even Mark Cavendish used a low carb diet running up to the Tour.
As I have stated the calories in fruit is made up of Fruitose therefore you would be taking in a lot of sugar but you don't have to have a "high sugar modern diets" 5 a day diet is about nutrients such as vitamins, minerals and of course fibre.somouk - Member
Going back on topic, there is more and more evidence that eating the 5 a day is actually quite bad for you considering our high sugar modern diets.
But not on the tour?? A Low carb diet is a high protein diet no way is that a good way to train for a high cardiovascular exercise. It is called the Atkins diet which causes you to be tired because of the lack of carbs. In fact unlike other diets it works becouse protein is an appetite surpresent. Again this cannot be good way to train for high cardiovascular workouts.Low carb is the way forward! Even Mark Cavendish used a low carb diet running up to the Tour.
There's lots of evidence out there. If you send me your details and £300 I'll show you the good stuff.
I'll need to Tweet it to you as my email is playing up though 🙂
A Low carb diet is a high protein diet no way is that a good way to train for a high cardiovascular exercise. It is called the Atkins diet which causes you to be tired because of the lack of carbs. In fact unlike other diets it works becouse protein is an appetite surpresent. Again this cannot be good way to train for high cardiovascular workouts.
Interestingly they had one of the team GB cyclists or ex team GB cyclists* on radio 4 last week, and his said that they train on a lot less carbs than they used to and carb depleted training was a core part of their regime now.
*The recollection is spoiled a bit, by me not remembering the person's name!
IHN - Member
let's get the question answered about nutritionists - can anyone call themselves one?
Yes: just like IT consultant, graphic designer, software engineer, management executive, personnel officer, photographer, journalist, sports coach etc it's just a job title and old mug off the street can add it to their CV, set up in business and charge for their services....
It is called the Atkins diet which causes you to be tired because of the lack of carbs
It's not just called the atkins diet, there are a lot of diets out there. As for the tiredness, that is only for a short period while moving your body into Ketosis. Once your body in in Ketosis then it's not so bad.
Atkins also only drops your carb levels low for teh first few weeks after that you can have limited carbs to support any training you are doing.
Some athletes have seen an increased performance after following this sort of diet as they don't experience the sugar crash half way through a ride.
let's get the question answered about nutritionists - can anyone call themselves one?
Yes: just like IT consultant, graphic designer, software engineer, management executive, personnel officer, photographer, journalist, sports coach etc it's just a job title and old mug off the street can add it to their CV, set up in business and charge for their services....
..but not like Dietician, which just any old mug off the street [b]can't[/b] call themselves.
there is more and more evidence that eating the 5 a day is actually quite bad for you considering our high sugar modern diets.
Sorry that is utter shite. The bad thing is the high sugar modern diet... not the fruit.
Stop drinking coke, stop eating sweets, keep eating fruit.
Also. I think people on this place need to get some perspective on where there body is and their training levels are, compared to a top endurance athlete.
If you don't share their body compostion stats, and don't do a similar training volume, then why do their diet??
Okay, so my point stands; if you ask someone with the job title of Nutritionist for advice regarding your diet you have no guarantee that they are suitably qualified to provide that advice. If you ask someone with the (protected) title of Dietician, you do.
I'm not saying that all nutritionists are quacks, doubtless some really know their stuff. However my view is, I admit, somewhat skewed by quacks such as McKeith, who's base-less 'science' has unfortunately become recieved wisdom.
If you don't share their body compostion stats, and don't do a similar training volume, then why do their diet??
Esp. If it doesn't involve pies.
With respect to fruit, presumably we only need to go back 50 years and this was pretty much a seasonal product. I'm not going to go down the path of saying it's not natural therefore it's not right to eat fruit 24/7, because that would be silly, but it doesn't appear to be natural so maybe does seem worthy of some critical analysis.
[i]I think people on this place need to get some perspective on where there body is and their training levels are, compared to a top endurance athlete.
If you don't share their body compostion stats, and don't do a similar training volume, then why do their diet??[/i]
Exactly.
I'd also lump into that the use of pre-ride shakes, recovery shakes, electrolyte drinks etc etc. For the average once or twice a week rider like what you get on here, who are probably carryng what could charitably be described as 'energy reserves' and rarely, if ever, push themselves to the absolute limit of anything, it's at best unneccesary and at worst, snake-oil.
Esp. If it doesn't involve pies.
I train with up to 6 pies a day. When it's coming up to the national champs I'll go way beyond this. It's good to know you can eat more pies than required to beat the competition.
I'd also lump into that the use of pre-ride shakes, recovery shakes, electrolyte drinks etc etc.
IHN - don't even get me started on this one.
*pokes TSY with a stick covered in gel wrappers* 😈
With respect to fruit, presumably we only need to go back 50 years and this was pretty much a seasonal product
Just been thinking about this... people used to make jams and preserves to store fruit for consumption throughout the year.
More generally though, there must be places in the world where fruit grows year round and presumably people have floursihed there?
I'm a registered nutritionist. Many top athletes follow a very similar diet plan to the one that I recommend.
My beef is with the fast-and-loose end of the nutritionist spectrum. Correct, anyone can call themselves an IT Consultant, but I'm not sure it's that relevant. Nutritionists are not all charlatans and there's clearly no doubt that food is critical to health, performance, longevity, etc.
There's a deliberate blurring of the boundaries between academia, scientific rigour and commerce. They're generally long on assertion, but short on evidence. My best friend's daughter studied with Professor Patrick Holford at the 'Institute for Optimum Nutrition'. I wish she hadn't, but it doesn't make her a bad person.
Nutritionist is so broad a term, it's essentially meaningless, the well-meaning man in my local health food shop is a nutritionist. Or a shopkeeper with a lot of tablets to sell. And you still haven't convinced me Ben Goldacre is a washed up medic.
More generally though, there must be places in the world where fruit grows year round and presumably people have floursihed there?
Indeed, which is why I don't really want to draw any conclusions, apart from people flourish on a vast variety of different diets.
apart from people flourish on a vast variety of different diets.
Which is why pies are so good.
I can think of 100's of fillings from savoury to sweet, just like that.
johnners - Member..but not like Dietician, which just any old mug off the street can't call themselves.
Yes, of course anyone can call themselves a dietician - they'd just be lying.
There have been quite a few cases where highly protected and regulated medical professions, even surgeons, have been "infiltrated" by chancers and apparently it took their collegaues quite a while to "suss them"
IHN - Member
Okay, so my point stands; if you ask someone with the job title of Nutritionist for advice regarding your diet you have no guarantee that they are suitably qualified to provide that advice. If you ask someone with the (protected) title of Dietician, you do.
You are all so "trusting" that because someone uses a so-called "protected" job title then they are proficient, truthful and reliable - wow, I can now see why so many people get scammed 😆
You are all so "trusting" that because someone uses a so-called "protected" job title then they are proficient, truthful and reliable - wow, I can now see why so many people get scammed
You're just sounding desperate now. "Dietician" as a job description means something, "nutritionist" means nothing. Clear enough?
With respect to fruit, presumably we only need to go back 50 years and this was pretty much a seasonal product.
We are getting taller and stronger with every generation, when man started cooking foods it made proteins easily digestible and allowed accelerated brain development. Basing diet advice on history is pretty dumb.
[i]We are getting taller and stronger with every generation, when man started cooking foods it made proteins easily digestible and allowed accelerated brain development. Basing diet advice on history is pretty dumb[/i]
Comparing the timescales of evolutionary adaptation over millenia and changes in eating habits over 50 years is pretty dumb.
Basing diet advice on history is pretty dumb.
So I take it you're not a fan of epidemiological evidence?
My best friend's daughter studied with Professor Patrick Holford at the 'Institute for Optimum Nutrition'. I wish she hadn't, but it doesn't make her a bad person.
Ugh. Patrick Holford appears quite highly on my List Of Dangerous Bastards. Somewhere between Mathias Rath and Andrew Wakefield. You have my sympathies.
As an aside, do you know what "Professor" Holford is actually a professor in?
Psychology.
Am I on the list? It's been said that I have shifty eyes.
And I'm a Nutritionist 😉
No. You're not dangerous.
Your all dumb. Geddit?
johnners - Member
"Dietician" as a job description means something, "nutritionist" means nothing. Clear enough?
Nothing means anything without context 😆
Within the context of the NHS, the largest employer in UK of both dieticans and nutritionists, both job titles are clearly defined, as are their respective roles, necessary qualifications and career options.
As they have been for the last 10 years.....
In November 2002 the British Dietetic Association and The Nutrition Society published jointly "The Employment of Nutritionists in NHS Nutrition and Dietetic Departments - A Professional Development Guidance Document" in order to encourage the employment of more nutritionists to meet a demand that outstripped the supply of registered dietitians. This guidance sets out kinds of roles for nutritionists to work safely within their Statement of Professional Conduct.
http://www.nhscareers.nhs.uk/details/default.aspx?id=840
Your all dumb.
You'r...ahh
Surely the key is just to eat stuff in moderation. If I eat just fruit, and lots of it I end up with the blazing shits. If I eat only peanut butter sandwiches I end up fat and have terrible breath. If I eat only salad I'll probably start reading the Guardian and grow a beard.
Moderation is key
I am a Nutritionist
Southern Yeti, it's not utter shite, how many of our parents drank coke 50 years ago, how long has Red Bull been available??
There are so many sugars in micro meals that are fattening people up. I'm not saying the fruit is bad here, i'm just saying that eating it on top of a 'typical' diet is not beneficial.
Just thought I'd throw this in as well...
http://www.****/femail/food/article-1349960/5-day-fruit-vegetables-myth-claims-nutrition-expert.html
http://www.zoeharcombe.com/2012/03/five-a-day-the-truth/