[Closed] On the subject of offence caused...

Anytime telling the truth is wrong, it's time to beware. And of course being PC is all about not telling the truth, which is why I refuse to subscribe.

I also think it's perfectly acceptable to draw comparisons between the holocaust and the Israeli crimes against the Palestinians. Unpalatable perhaps, but no less valid.

[i]But he accused "the Jews" in Israel of "inflicting atrocities on Palestinians... on a daily basis". [/i]

Difficult to dispute that on a factual basis really, so lets howl 'antisemitism' instead. Like every other time anyone dares to criticise the behavior of Israel really. Its all so predictable

I also think it's perfectly acceptable to draw comparisons between the holocaust and the Israeli crimes against the Palestinians.

+1

Interesting article on the Quartet here: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/9806139/Tony-Blairs-record-in-the-Middle-East-is-a-sorry-one-its-time-he-quit.html

In theory, the Quartet represents the international community. In practice, as the French diplomat Anis Nacrour, who used to advise Mr Blair at the Quartet, told me for a Channel 4 Dispatches programme 18 months ago, it was set up as a “smokescreen” for Israel and the United States. Its real function, said Mr Nacrour, was “buying time for allowing the Israeli government to do whatever they wanted to do.”

TuckerUK - Member
And of course being PC is all about not telling the truth, which is why I refuse to subscribe.

1/10, back to troll school

I also think it's perfectly acceptable to draw comparisons between the holocaust and the Israeli crimes against the Palestinians. Unpalatable perhaps, but no less valid.

Indeed it is, but I'm at a loss to see the parallels between the Holocaust ([i]was the mass murder or genocide of approximately six million Jews during World War II, a programme of systematic state-sponsored murder[/i]) and the Palestinian situation.

No mater how deplorable the Middle East situation, I don't think they are of any equivalence.

It's just a programme of systematic state-sponsored persecution, annexation and repression.

We've never seen that before have we.

vinneyh has a point, it's much more akin to the ethnic cleansing seen in the balkans recently.

Happy to accept there's a lot of similarities with the ghettoisation of the Jews over the centuries by the way.

TuckerUK - Member
Anytime telling the truth is wrong, it's time to beware. And of course being PC is all about not telling the truth, which is why I refuse to subscribe.

+1

Shut up you annoying C£$NTS. +3 I think it is to not being happy with Genocide amd generally nasty murderous shi t. This is like facebook. Look! bad stuff!

The Holocaust may not be [i]directly[/i] comparable to the agression and repression directed against the Palestinian people, but as it is the Israeli State - a State formed out of Europe's collective guilt over the Holocaust - then using Holocaust Memorial Day to point out that the very same State born out of ethnic cleansing, a policy of Lebensraum and the dehumanisation of an entire ethnic group is now committing such acts is a very apt time to make such a point.

Too many people are using "Jew" and "Israeli" interchangeably. They are not the same thing.

Too many people are using "Jew" and "Israeli" interchangeably. They are not the same thing.

True, but for USA foriegn policy, they are extremely interchangable, hence their rather liberal support of the Israeli government. If any other country had behaved like that the great democracy of the world would be outraged, but the very large Jewish influential population dictates otherwise.

Approximately what percentage of one isn't the other in origin?

[i]They are not the same thing. [/i]

There's a number of groups in the current (and putative) Israeli government who want this to be the case. Currently there are 1.5 million non-Jewish residents of Israel but very few are full citizens.

Approximately what percentage of one isn't the other in origin?

I don't think it really matters. Many countries are predominantly Christian, but they don't all behave in exactly the same way, do they?

No mater how deplorable the Middle East situation, I don't think they are of any equivalence.

+1

The situation there is six of one and half a dozen of the other; that's not quite how it was in 1940. Both sides are equally guilty of atrocities. Firing rockets indiscriminately into Israeli settlements is just as bad a firing rockets at known targets and also killing innocent civilians.

The situation there is six of one and half a dozen of the other

Not really. There is an overwhelming power imbalance.

The whole regional situation is completely hopeless. Can we not just nuke the whole area? Oh...erm.... actually....

[img] [/img]

Not long now then eh?

it's like anything else isn't it. Really difficult to label a bunch of people in a certain area with a certain prejudice or not. The label will be put if it is financially viable. If it was about humanitarian concerns it'd be somewhere else I suspect. Terrible things happen all over the world all the time.

Indeed it is, but I'm at a loss to see the parallels between the Holocaust (was the mass murder or genocide of approximately six million Jews during World War II, a programme of systematic state-sponsored murder) and the Palestinian situation.

I hear you and of course there are differences. I understand that the Israelis are not attempting genocide on the scale that was visited upon the jews. I do think the forced relocation, ghettoisation, indiscriminate bombardment of civilians and blockade of food and medical supplies has direct parallels though. Another difference is that the Israeli subjugation of the Palestinians is done with western manufactured weapons, and to a degree with western acquiescence. Bloody hands in Europe and America. It's hard to understand why so many people in the ancient heart of the world hate us isn't it...

ATTENTION SEEKING FAILING POLITICIAN SHOCKER.

Perhaps get a life and aim your misplaced comments at places nearer to home like northern parts of ireland

Not really. There is an overwhelming power imbalance.

That may be so when you look at the conflict between the Palestinians and the Israelis but it's not the case when you look at the region as a whole nor when you consider what it is they are doing to each other.
The various terrorist organisations operating in Palestine are just as capable of committing atrocities as the Israeli army are.

are we over the German thing now?

are we over the German thing now?

No, and we never should be IMO.

The various terrorist organisations operating in Palestine are just as capable of committing atrocities as the Israeli army are

The capability of the Israeli army to do so vastly outweighs the capability of Palestinian terrorists.

The capability of the Israeli army to do so vastly outweighs the capability of Palestinian terrorists.

However, the Palestinian terrorists tend to use their offensive capabilities to the fullest.
There must therefore be an argument that the Israelis show restraint. (Note: this is not necessarily the same as a proportionate response)

Mr Ward makes the mistake of stating what thinking people are thinking and gets reprimanded by his leaders who entered a coilition leaving thinking people thinking "what were they thinking".

I'll be with friends in Germany soon, just what grudges should I be bearing and how do you suggest I show them?

On the other hand I got in a highly entertaining conversation with some Israelis on the way to Compestelo (what jews were doing on a catholic pilgrimage I have no idea). I don't know what propaganda they see on their local TV but it must be very different from the propaganda I watch.

Edit: "restraint" that's an intersting word for illegal occupation and heavy-handed reprisals.

However, the Palestinian terrorists tend to use their offensive capabilities to the fullest.
There must therefore be an argument that the Israelis show restraint. (Note: this is not necessarily the same as a proportionate response)

Of course they don't - offensive actions tend to be in response to specific circumstances.

The state of Israel does as much as the US allows it to.

Edit: "restraint" that's an intersting word for illegal occupation and heavy-handed reprisals.

It's about as restrained as the Arab nations were in 1948 and then again in 1956, and then 1967 and 1973.

The fact that one is more powerful than the other doesn't make them worse.

They're both as bad/good as each other.

Why is Israel's "occupation" illegal btw?

In a broader historical context Jews have faced persecution for centuries and there are some pretty nasty examples here in the UK so you could, if you were so minded, understand why they lash out.

However, I would have hoped that history would have taught them the compassion that they seem to clearly be lacking when dealing with the other peoples who share the land they were gifted after WWII.

Why is Israel's "occupation" illegal btw?

Edukator does have a point. Their occupation of land post the 1948 Arab-Israeli war went beyond the boundaries agreed by the UN partition which created Israeli in the first place.

The UN has passed numerous resolutions calling for the Israelis to withdraw to the previously agreed borders but this is about as likely as a long lasting peace in the region.

The fact that one is more powerful than the other doesn't make them worse.

True.

They're both as bad/good as each other.

Not true. What matters is what happens.

It's about as restrained as the Arab nations were in 1948 and then again in 1956, and then 1967 and 1973

I see we're going to need to dig the map out again.

I see we're going to need to dig the map out again.

Possibly not - see above.

Possibly not - see above.

I agree with your post but it's more fundamental than that - land was taken in order to create Israel. Conflict was always going to be inevitable.

This map?

[img] [/img]

David Ward is quite right in what he says but perhaps a less confrontational analogy would have got the point across without the cries of anti-Semite and mass hand-wringing by those who prefer to appease the Ghettoisation of a populace, but then again that would have garnered far less national headlines and talk which i figure was his intention all along - well done David, hat's off to you..

Lets hope that the current Israeli government of Netanyahu's Likud party takes notice of the swift kick in the bollocks that the recent election served them with, Yair Lapid is by no means an palestinian appeaser but his centre led party offers a greater hope for formation of an ongoing peace process, especially as some in his party vehemently oppose current Likud policies regarding the "Palestinian problem", it's certainly an improvement on the current situation anyway.