[Closed] On my road bike ride today, i came across a bad accident

still s8tannorm

sorry to hear that

I've been fortunate enough to do a variety of things in my life, some of which have been relatively unconventional or risky. I've rock-climbed, power-kited, fell-walked, jumped out of perfectly good aeroplanes, run long-distance; I've ridden mountain bikes, quad bikes, motorbikes, driven a variety of cars (often, ah, "enthusiastically"), I could go on.

*Without fail*, all of these activities have had one thing in common.

The difference though is that the first six don't involve risking killing other people.

And PeterPoddy - as I said before and you ignored - you clearly ride your motorbike beyond your abilities and shouldn't be on the road.

Wonder how many car drivers here have had several crashes that were their own fault and mostly (luckily) involved no other road users?

I must say, I'm surprised at the amount of "all bikers are barstewards" attitudes here

Where?

As has been admitted to me by a few bikers - one of the main reasons you get a fast bike is so that you can enjoy riding like a bit of a nob. I'm sure it's an amazing buzz but there's no point pretending it's not irresponsible.

Hate to say it Cougar but I suspect most red blooded males (and females) on here have also done most or all of those activities.

Yes superbike riding is also "fun" but it also endangers many other people - a motorbike going too fast (and let's admit it, they are very often going too fast) could kill people very easily. Lots of people. Yes a car can do the same but you don't often see cars sneaking through tiny gaps at 100++mph, tailgating a foot from a car bumper or taking all sorts of other risks in the pursuit of "fun."

How well do bikes corner and brake compared to something like a lotus exige?

Obi - bike slower by a fair margin. Most well sorted sporty cars can out- corner a superbike. But the bike is MUCH quicker in a straight line.

I ride a sportsbike with a race can (no baffle), small plate, use an iridium visor on sunny days, and ride well in excess of the NSL when I deem it safe to do so, based on nearly 30 years of riding motorbikes and police advanced training.

To many people that makes me something akin to the Antichrist.

The antichrist is meant to be aiming for the complete destruction of the world as we know it, creating hell on Earth. You are a middle aged IT manager going a bit fast on a sports bike. I think you need a sense of perspective; compare yourself to something a little less evil. Gremlin perhaps?

😉

Police advanced training - hmmm. That'll make you a serving or former traffic cop. I smell a whole heap of Arbroath Smokie coming off that one.

Lol - well, middle aged: yes. Manager: yes. IT: <spits> no!

Ok, to many people I am akin to a gremlin. But with less hair...

Obi - nope, no chance of me ever being a copper. A two day Ride to Arrive course with Avon & Somerset police back in the late 90's. Best money I (actually my wife paid) ever spent, those polis boys sure know how to ride, their lines are millimetre perfect.

ride well in excess of the NSL when I deem it safe to do so

i'd rather you did it when we all deem it safe ie almost never

So it wasnt even remotely close to being of an advanced level. More like pass plus in car driving terms.

Obi - nope, the aim was to get attendees to Advanced motorcycle test level. I was told I was at that level at the end of the course.

a_a: our opinions clearly differ. "we all"? You're appointed to speak for everyone?

Obi - its actually much more than pass plus. Its a higher level than IAM stuff.

I was referring to the law on speed limits. Now I break em on my bike all the time, but rarely "well in excess". The thing is you decide a level of risk but its not just for yourself and whilst you might be gods gift to riding but you cannot predict the actions of the other clowns on the roads and as such you put others at risk. I dont want to be critical as you may be a good rider but many ride fast on the roads for fun, I find that quite wrong, take it to a track.

a_a I don't disagree with what you're saying. I do like to ride fast, it's why I have a sportsbike, but I sure as hell don't want to get killed and have my kids grow up without a father, and being naturally a fairly courteous person (most of the time....) I don't want to p*ss off or inconvenience other road users. Hence when I want to go out for a hoon I go out early (7.00am) on roads I know well, that are fairly traffic-free (at that time of day), and are suitable for the sort of riding I want to do - good surface, good visibility, no hidden junctions etc.

I don't get why so many bikers go to honey-pot areas on sunny Sundays or bank holiday weekends - it can't be any fun, the risk of an accident is far higher, and loads of car drivers end up hating bikes and bikers even more, as evidenced on here.

Hey ho, like Peter Poddy I love all things on two wheels, motorised or pedal-powered.

TJ are you sure? It's just that my sources tell me that you cant get to a decent level on two days training.

Obi - it depends on your level before you do the course. I'd ridden for over 15 years when I took the course, learnt a hell of a lot, and was told at the end of the course I was of a standard to take, and probably pass, the IAM test. A girl in my sub-group of three had only recently passed her test and was miles away from IAM standard, but undoubtedly learnt skills over the two days that greatly increased her chances of living to old age.

So many bikers spend a fortune on shiny bits (like most MTBers!) when spending a few hundred quid on advanced training (road or track) increases the fun of riding hugely and makes you far safer. And incidentally, police riders, when let off the leash, don't hang about. The memory of coming over top of the Mendips at 120mph+ with a uniformed copper on his Pan European right up my chuff (with oncoming car drivers flashing me in a "slow down, there's a copper RIGHT behind you" kind of way lol) will always remain with me. The point being that the copper in question had determined I was capable of riding at that speed in appropriate conditions, and as he knew we'd all do it anyway, best he imparted his skills and knowledge to enable us to be able to judge when and where to do it safely.

my bike tries to shake my teeth loose if I go over 80mph which I find a good enough way of slowing me down.

That copper was quite clearly a bell end and should have lost his job and his licence for doing that. High speeds are for the track. Going like f*** on the road is incredibly selfish behaviour.

I have to say I fail to see how 120mph can be done safely except on maybe a very empty motorway.

Can motorcyclists see properly out of those funny helmets they wear these days? Just wondering as a lot of them seem to be way off line a lot of the time.

problem with mobikes is no matter how good the rider is, some blind old t**t will pull out and knock you off, no probs if your in a car, few dents insurance ect'ect, but on a bike your toast, i know 4 peaple that this has happend to over the years, 3 dead, one in a wheelchair for life
biggest problem with bikes is old duffers in micras who dont wear their glasses

I love bikes, but not enough to make up for a roughly 60 times increased risk of death when compared to driving cars. I stopped riding on the road, and took up track days, but seeing someone (a family guy, just like me) get killed at Cadwell Park was enough for me to completely give up riding.

If you ride a bike you just have to accept the odds that say you're more likely to have an accident (people don't see you, diesel on the road surface means a crash for a bike versus a slide for a car etc etc), and that once off the bike your chances of survival are much lower.

Good luck to those who ride. But no matter how much I love bikes, I'll not have another one.

> [i]I'd have a bike, but I know I'd kill myself in a month because it would be too tempting to use the power and acceleration on the road[/i]

Same here - it took me long enough to calm the hell down in a car. I'd die on a bike. Just couldn't resist the acceleration.

That copper was quite clearly a bell end and should have lost his job and his licence for doing that

Daily Mail-style knee-jerk reaction I'm afraid. Look at it logically: Any muppet with a bike licence and a load of cash can walk into a dealer and buy a 180mph superbike. A lot do and then find they have nowhere near the skills or experience to handle it, leading to idiotic riding as witnessed by many on here, or them ending up in hospital or worse.

Whether you like this state of affairs or think it's sensible (it's probably a sign that I'm getting old that I'm starting to think it's not) it's the way it is. Given that people can and do buy such bikes and want to and will use the performance in question, instructors like the copper I referred to are to be commended as they recognise that fact and do their best to impart sufficient skills and knowledge to keep these guys alive.

Similarly, my (car) driving instructor took me out on the local dual carriageway while I was learning and made me accelerate to and sit at 70mph. Scared the life out of me first time he did it, but his rationale was that you'd have to drive at that speed on motorways and the like once you'd passed your test so best that you did it first in controlled conditions. Similar sensible thinking IMO, but sadly uncommon.

Good luck to those who ride. But no matter how much I love bikes, I'll not have another one

A fair few people feel the same about road cycling. I can understand why people think that way, but I love road riding and road motorcycling too much too stop. I accept the risks and do my best to mitigate them.

anagallis_arvensis - Member

"I have to say I fail to see how 120mph can be done safely except on maybe a very empty motorway. "

And of course your judgement is superior to the police rider who was actually there at the time.

Plus a very empty motorway is when you see 172mph on your speedo.

Alledgedly.

my unkle was killed when a driver pulled out from a junction, ended his life and ruined the lives of his loving wife and three kids.

I'm rather drawn to getting some kind of rat bike/streetfighter/cafe racer type thing though.

aka - I did a Police driving course at Portishead (A&S Police HQ) after my IAM test. I had a temp driving job (thanks partly to having an IAM pass) and as part of it I had to take and pass a Police test. It was the most fun I've had in a car I reckon - the instructor was inspirationally good and observant and we learned tonnes of stuff. The observed run was nerve racking but the rest was a hoot. Don't know what level I officially achieved but got decent marks and learned loads of stuff that even a serious trackday or "performance" course won't even touch.

BenjiM - Member

My girlfriends next door neighbor was killed yesterday in a motorbike accident. He left behind 3 young girls and a wife. He was a very successful electrician just about to move to a bigger house too. Such a huge shame, really nice fella too. He's from Longridge near Preston.

I've just heard via another source that the Longridge bloke's accident was a head-to-head between two bikes near Hawes, so I think its a safe bet you were talking about the same tragedy BenjiM.
Just goes to show how widely a tragedy like this effects so many, in one way or another.

The first properly sunny weekend of the year is often a nightmare for motorbike accidents.

I used to be a year round biker but these days do much less mileage and only did my first proper ride of the year a couple of weeks back, although in my case that was a 500 mile day with some sleet and hail rather than a fast blast! On my CBF or XBR I'm fine (and take it pretty easy anyway) but it'll be a while before I take the sports bike out.

aka_Gilo, you seem to need to do a bit of growing up with regards speeding on public roads. What would happen if say a bird or a rabbit appeared on the road and you hit it at 120mph? You'd probably be dead. How good are you at spotting diesel, pot holes or patches of gravel at 120mph? I'll be not very good - hit any of that lot and you will end up dead. You dont tend to get any of them on race tracks, everyone tends to be going the same way and there is immediate life support on hand too.

The copper if caught doing that now would probably face prison too.

Surf-Mat - Member
aka - I did a Police driving course at Portishead (A&S Police HQ) after my IAM test. I had a temp driving job (thanks partly to having an IAM pass) and as part of it I had to take and pass a Police test. It was the most fun I've had in a car I reckon - the instructor was inspirationally good and observant and we learned tonnes of stuff. The observed run was nerve racking but the rest was a hoot. Don't know what level I officially achieved but got decent marks and learned loads of stuff that even a serious trackday or "performance" course won't even touch.

Pleased to hear it 😉 So did this 'job' involve driving on b&t's?

People understimate how stable bikes are at speed. Hitting a rabbit or bird at 120mph is very unlikely to have you off, as is hitting patches of gravel or diesel if upright. Potholes big enough to be a problem can be spotted a long way off. I've done close to 100mph on very bumpy fireroads and Landrover tracks (while racing!) and it's not been any problem.

Not that I'm advocating those sorts of speeds on the road, just mentioning that you'd be surprised how stable bikes are when at speed.

Obi - thanks for your concern but I've been around long enough to make informed decisions as to how I ride.

+ what epicsteve said - spot on.

People understimate how stable bikes are at speed. Hitting a rabbit or bird at 120mph is very unlikely to have you off, as is hitting patches of gravel or diesel if upright. Potholes big enough to be a problem can be spotted a long way off. I've done close to 100mph on very bumpy fireroads and Landrover tracks (while racing!) and it's not been any problem.

Surf-Mat - that's where I did my riding course. Great bunch of chaps there, and really superb riders /drivers. You really do learn so much from them.

normally i wouldn't get involved in a thread like this yet i feel compelled by the comments of aka_Gilo.

firstly the excessive speeding that you seem so proud of is wrong either in a car or on a bike. the safety of it has **** all to do with your perceived ability. you are not the only road user. how do you account for other peoples actions? nobody expects the approaching car/motorbike to be doing 120mph - have you seen what a crash looks like at this speed? i suggest you look at this...
[img] [/img]

secondly, do you realise how little respect you have for other road users (and their families). its not just yourself you put at risk. take that picture for example, the car pulled out of a junction near a bend the bike was doing the sort of speed you deem acceptable, the rider could not see the car until it was too late and now 3 people are dead.

i strongly recommend that you take a trip to your local A&E to see what excessive speed (car or motorbike) does to people and there families.

i very much doubt this post will have an affect on you but it's worth a try.

aka-Gilo - you are mistaken in your assumption that I am concerned for your well being. All I care about is my own personal safety and that of my friends and family. You go and kill yourself if you want, but please try not to take anyone else out with you.

You have proven my point about the rider course that you went on being shit too. Motor skills are easy to learn and to teach. It's the cognitive ones that are way more important though.

i strongly recommend that you take a trip to your local A&E to see what excessive speed (car or motorbike) does to people and there families.

That accident is awful.

Andy - not full on B&Ts, just a smartish semi cop uniform. I ferried forensics to ahem... you know where and often carried a LOT of drugs and weapons!

i strongly recommend that you take a trip to your local A&E to see what excessive speed (car or motorbike) does to people and there families.

It doesn't have to be excessive speed either. The NCAP tests are carried out at a relatively low speed to get their results. Up the speed by just 10mph and you'd see dramatic differences.

Get upto a legal NSL or 70mph and you could see horrific consequences from a legal driver.

I think NCAP offers a false sense of security to most drivers.

And of course your judgement is superior to the police rider who was actually there at the time.

doesnt matter about my judgement or the coppers what matters is what other road users expect.

anagallis_arvensis wrote,

"doesnt matter about my judgement or the coppers what matters is what other road users expect. "

And again, huge assumptions that there were other road users, or that their expectations were relevant- that sort of speed through junctions etc would pretty much always be reckless but if other road users aren't making decisions based on your speed, it doesn't matter what they expect. So either you believe that both riders in this situation, including the hugely trained police rider, were reckless idiots or you believe that just maybe, they'd taken into account the road and the conditions and the level of traffic and made a decision based on that.

he does mention that people were flashing him so assume that means cars were about.

So either you believe that both riders in this situation, including the hugely trained police rider, were reckless idiots or you believe that just maybe, they'd taken into account the road and the conditions and the level of traffic and made a decision based on that.

No doubt they were assessing risk and decided it was worth it for their fun, but had I been around they hadnt asked me if I wanted my risk levels increased for their fun. Even if the risk to others was only raised slightly I dont believe they have the right to take that decision. 120mph on a road with a 60 or 70 mph limit increases risk for all.