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Two bikes colliding means either one lost control badly or they were both using the racing line.
Possibly one perfectly innocent biker got taken out. Both using the racing line? Assuming it's a 2 lane road, one would assume they would be on different lines?
I'd have a bike, but I know I'd kill myself in a month because it would be too tempting to use the power and acceleration on the road.
No you wouldn't.
No offence, but the fact that you've said that means that you are actually more sensible than you think you are and are possibly just afraid of the idea.
When I got a motorbike I got a cr*p commuter and rode in all weathers and on all kinds of roads. Having cycled in the city for years I concentrated on making good observations.
Even now I don't ride a sports bike and have no delusions of possessing superb skills, although I'd like to think that I was now fairly competent.
I do, however, see some very poor (both dodgy and dithery) riding from people on incredibly potent bikes. Having ridden fast bikes I know that I couldn't do one justice.
As with road cycling, being aware of your surroundings and the potential for danger is an important part of self-preservation.
ps. As with a lot of things, I can't understand the lack of 'discretion' from a lot of people on motorbikes. There are times and places for some things and a sunny Sunday afternoon in a very busy national park isn't the place to be hooning about whilst having to dodge old duffers in Rovers.
Whilst driving, I've had to avoid bikers overtaking in the opposite direction on blind corners. They'll just wrongly assume that I'm a non-biking driver who doesn't understand.
TheLittlestHobo - MemberNever understood why the police dont target these 'popular' racing routes on sunny days.
They do.
coffeeking - MemberTwice now I've had to dart to one side to avoid the helmet of a speeding motorcyclist whos leaning across the white line into my lane.
Classic inexperience mistake
I was out on my motorbike yesterday and witnessed some very poor and dangerous riding by other bikers. A lot of the bikers I saw had no understanding of road positioning and visibility.
I went home in the end because I didn't want to be caught up in somebody elses accident.
TandemJeremy ....you are passing the 2nd car at 100 mph.
TandemJeremy ....motorcycles that fly past at what looks like outrageous speeds
So how much in excess of the national speed limit would [i]you[/i] class as "outrageous" if 100mph is your recommended safe overtaking speed ???
I wish you would explain that to the biker I was following home from Glentress yesterday. He was easily doing 100mph along the straights but was bimbling round the corners like a complete novice.It's quite possible to move from A to B with astonshing speed on a motorbike, far in excess of what a car can do, easily, safely, and stress free. (And I don't mean outright speed, I mean point to point speed)
I don't have a problem with bikers on the whole when I see them in my mirrors I generally pull over to the left side of the carraigeway and let them get on with it I know how much faster they are then a car (even a fairly quick one). I also agree its safer for them to overtake as quickly as possible. But the consequence of an error on a motorbike are a lot higher as the OPs post demonstrates
He was easily doing 100mph along the straights but was bimbling round the corners like a complete novice.
He probably was a virtual novice. Most bikers don't do many miles and very few learn the ropes and become comfortable whilst owning a slow bike before buying a banzai monster.
-Any fool can wang the throttle open. Point-and-squirt
Where in Yorkshire was it? Can't find it on the BBC site.
Just under 20 years ago I was out on my road bike with a couple of friends, just finishing a 90 mile Sunday run, heard what sounded like RC plane engines up ahead, realised within a couple of seconds that they were actually motorbike engines hammering along the road we were about to join. They went round the corner just in front and opened it up onto the short straight. Then we heard a thud, then a more interesting noise, then we saw the fireball and small spinning objects trailing flames carrying on, then came the mushroom cloud.
We carried on to find half a Sierra, burning with a man burning sat in the front seat, the hedge was on fire as was the field beyond, there were little pieces of burning car, motorbike(s) and motorbiker(s) spread along the road, the hedge and the field.
There was nothing we could do to help any of them.
It wasn't very pleasant.
theres a certain area on a yorkshire road (Settle-N.Yorks) to be exact, lots of bikers have accidents on this stretch of rd.... you always see fresh flowers tied to the lampost........wish they,d slow down just a Tad..
Hobo they do we have a Police Hayabusa at the local plodshop for just such weekends.... 😆
TBF I have alot of friend who ride and ride hard......when they roll up out side of the house with the tyres melting I don't even ask......
zokes - Member
It has always made me wonder why the signs say "THINK BIKE". Why not just tell the twunts on bikes to "THINK CAR" once in a while, and there's be a few less issues...
+1.
I'd be interested (as a none biker, none car driver currently) to know what % of motorbike accidents involving car involve excess speed on either part.
Why do the police need a fast bike to catch these guys? A speed camera taking pictures is more than enough. They only need the speed and reg number.
If a guy loses his bike licence does he lose his car licence as well. If a lot of these bikers are middle aged born again bikers they will have a lot to lose if they are risking their car licence as well.
Havent got a downer on bikers btw, i just would be happier if they werent risking lives getting their buzzes.
Two more here in Devon yesterday http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/devon/8700335.stm
Remind me again why I wouldn't ride a motorbike on the road.
Two of my best mates are recent converts to biking but are both incredibly sensible riders. At the weekend they were out enjoying the good weather and came to a junction. They slowed and approached as you would expect, stopping as there was a car coming from the right.
Then some clown on a bike following them swerved around them both at the junction and straight out - powering away to narrowly avoid the oncoming car.
TandemJeremy ....you are passing the 2nd car at 100 mph.TandemJeremy ....motorcycles that fly past at what looks like outrageous speeds
So how much in excess of the national speed limit would you class as "outrageous" if 100mph is your recommended safe overtaking speed ???
I much prefer biker (or fast cars for that matter) to get past me as quickly as possible. Its safer for everyone involved. its all about time exposed to danger.
Imagine a biker passing two cars travelling a 50 mph say he accelerates to an "acceptable" speed of 70 mph (lets call his average speed during the manouver 60mph) this gives him a speed delta of 10mph over the slower traffic if he needs 50m (of relative distance) to complete the overtake that will take him just over 11 seconds.
If the biker accelerates to 100mph (assume an average of 85mph during the manouver) he now has a speed delta of 35mph he can now complete the same overtake in a little under 4 seconds
missingfrontallobeI'd be interested (as a none biker, none car driver currently) to know what % of motorbike accidents involving car involve excess speed on either part.
My understanding is that typically the crashes are at around the speed limit - not usually excessively fast. Its typically a middleaged man inexperienced on motorcycles with no other vehicle involved on a bend - too fast for the combination of the bend and the skill not above the legal limit. The tragedy is that with better skills many could be avoided. The sort of corner you go round at 45 mph cruising in a car and can be taken on a bike at 60+ easily they cock it up at 55mph and chuck it thru a hedge. Nearly did it myself once.
If a guy loses his bike licence does he lose his car licence as well
yes. It's one licence
We unfortunately had a fatality on the Isle Of Man yesterday and the TT races don't even start until next weekend 🙁
[url= http://www.iomtoday.co.im/news/Biker-killed-in-Mountain-Road.6314103.jp ]Isle Of Man Today[/url]
Once the TT starts there are usually quite a few crashes over the 2 weeks 🙁
It's ever so slightly mad 😯
Ohh, and recently (as I posted on here) I had a bike overtake me going up a hill with unbroken white lines. The brow is unsighted and has a sharp left.
Did I tell you he was wheelie-ing as he did this?
Then a car came 'round the bend so he had to drop it quickly and swerve in right in front of my car.
(That is just the latest idiocy I have witnessed, there have been plenty more on this particular stretch of road (Skipton Road out of Harrogate).
If the biker accelerates to 100mph (assume an average of 85mph during the manouver) he now has a speed delta of 35mph he can now complete the same overtake in a little under 4 seconds
😕
What was is it someone once said to me 'on every ride you have a near-miss'.
I stopped after my D.A. Would definitely ride off road though 😀
I think the thing that makes a lot of people hate bikers is the way they pass. Even fast cars will generally come and sit behind you, then pass. The majority of bikes are quick enough that they come up behind you rather faster than you're going, and sail straight by.
If you're not right on top of your observation, they're passing you before you've even seen them in your mirrors.
That said, I've had people not notice me in the car when I've been sat behind them and pulled out to overtake...
And someone needs to tell these idiots that the space in the middle of the road separating the two carriageways isn't a private space just for bikers to overtake even when there are cars travelling in both directions.
What was is it someone once said to me 'on every ride you have a near-miss'.
I certainly don't. That shouldn't be typical of someone who wants to survive.
I stopped after my D.A.
Stopped after the test or after deciding it wasn't for you?
I'm slowly losing my respect for motorbikers in general - not that they probably care....
Everytime it gets to some warm weather the roads are invaded by middle aged Power Rangers, whizzing about with their race cans & iridium visors who generally seem to ride as if the laws of the road don't apply to them.
And yes, there are a LOT of responsible bikers out there. But there are many bikers who seem to think that the 'awesome' power of their machines will get them out of any trouble they get themselves into by overtaking on blind corners/hills/near blind dips in the road etc.
I've also had many occasions where I've had to swerve out of the way as a Power Ranger helmet has scythed round the wrong side of the road on a country lane with the bike tyres positioned almost on the centre line of the road, and the rider almost completely on the wrong side.
TJ, do you think you might be able to stop the patronising "non-motorcylists couldn't possibly understand" line??
I'm a non-motorcylist, but have been on the back of many bikes, in many different road environments. I believe I have an understanding of the potential extra view down the road afforded by the higher eyeline of a seated rider, as well as the vastly greater acceleration potential of a motorbike. I can still see when someone's riding like a **** though....
Oh, and your mention of 100mph overtakes seems to contrast greatly with your unwavering stance a while back on the heinous crime of undertaking...
TheLittlestHobo - MemberWhy do the police need a fast bike to catch these guys? A speed camera taking pictures is more than enough. They only need the speed and reg number.
Education. Its often a unmarked bike, You see one being ridden slowly - you pass it and it follows you - depending on how you ride you get pulled over and he shows you a video of your ride and you get what you deserve - from an bollocking to a go straight to jail card
Havent got a downer on bikers btw, i just would be happier if they werent risking lives getting their buzzes.
Part of the reason I got back into MTBs. Hitting 30+ on an MTB is as thrilling as 100+ on a motorcycle.
I've also had many occasions where I've had to swerve out of the way as a Power Ranger helmet has scythed round the wrong side of the road on a country lane with the bike tyres positioned almost on the centre line of the road, and the rider almost completely on the wrong side.
Not that many people ride like that, but the ones that do give a bad impression.
Having your head in the way of oncoming traffic can never be a good idea.
I [u]do[/u] ride a bike and still feel uneasy about people riding like that. I make 'reasonable progress', but aim to ride without causing other vehicles to accommodate me. Busy places with poor visibility are not the places to do daft things.
Gave up riding motorbikes 15 years ago and since then i've become very "lazy" driving in my car.By that i mean that you were always on the look out for potential hazards.Cow crap on the road,gravel,tractors,ect.But when your in the car listening to the radio,the wife and kids screeming at each other i bimble along and do not pick up on the potential hazards.
[i]I'm not sure an off-road trail requires quite the same level of forward planning and understanding of road conditions personally! [/i]
Only real difference is that there often isn't much coming the otherway that can kill you - and maybe you're not riding fast enough 😉
As for speed, unless you've ridden a fast bike (or driven an F1 or equivilent car) you've no concept of the acceleration potential of them - my Kawasaki would do 0-100mph in 5 secs, on to 130mph in under 10 secs and really didn't stop accelerating until the redline (approx 175mph).
Bikes are also narrow, so bends are faster and as you sit higher you've a better view of the road.
But its funny that I now find 30mph downhill on my mtb far, far more exhilarating.
As for speed, unless you've ridden a fast bike (or driven an F1 or equivilent car) you've no concept of the acceleration potential of them
The word phenomenal is apt, although the words "Whooooooooooaaaah!!! ****" were the ones that came out of my mouth when gave a mate's Fireblade some beans in 2nd gear as a newly-passed rider.
Downhill on an MTB at 30mph is exhilarating, Motos and mtbs complement each other.
Stopped after the test or after deciding it wasn't for you?
(Like everyone) I was hoping I'd be a natural on a motorbike. Far from it. Not the gears etc, the problem was I didn't have a sixth sense, I missed certain things.
In a car, I've always had a 'sixth sense'. Sounds wierd but you second-guess other drivers, know what to expect from the unexpected and a slide is never a drama, just interesting.
I have none of this on a bike.
stumpy01 - Memberare invaded by middle aged Power Rangers, whizzing about with their race cans & iridium visors who generally seem to ride as if the laws of the road don't apply to them.
dickheads the lot of 'em - they are the ones who crash
Sorry - not intended to be patronising. Just trying to say that some of those fast riders are actually pretty safe. Some are not. Car drivers often find difficulty distinguishing which are which.
TJ, do you think you might be able to stop the patronising "non-motorcylists couldn't possibly understand" line??
I was not condoning or recommending a 100 mph overtake - again trying to explain just how easy it is to do. Its only the midrange in third FFS! Thats why the aforementioned power rangers fly past you at stupido speeds.
My last fastish bike was a BMW - I prefered to make rapid but unobtrusive progress. There is a time and a place for speeding and don't bleat if you get caught
So that must be a dozen motorbike deaths listed here?
I knew four people who have died on them all left behind devastated families. Yes they are quick but they are so flipping dangerous - even the best rider in the World can't stop someone pulling out in front of them, not seeing them overtake and pulling out, etc.
Also seen two horrible incidents were death resulted - I can imagine the OP will be mentally scarred for life? I know I still "see" the mangled bodies in my mind sometimes.
And road hazards - I'm bad enough at 30-40 on my road bike looking for potholes, wet drain covers, farm animal cr4p, etc - god knows that they hazard perception is like at silly superbike speeds.
I like quick cars but quick bikes just terrify me. Nice to look at but why do riders have to match their bikes?! Imagine us matching our cars? I'd have to wear a shiny black outfit with terra leather "detailing" (maybe elbow patches?)!
hora
In a car, I've always had a 'sixth sense'. Sounds wierd but you second-guess other drivers, know what to expect from the unexpected and a slide is never a drama, just interesting.
As I actually know you in the real world and been a passenger in your car... I've never been aware of this "sixth sense" of yours. You must keep it well hidden 😉
Someone keeps putting oil on my tyres 😉
I used to ride motorbikes both on and off road.
I've had one accident that was my fault and several that were other peoples.
IMO the roads are far more crowded than they used to be, and with fewer traffic police available the standards of driving and riding has fallen massively.
Add into this the democratisation of speed (very fast cars and bikes are cheap - £2000 for an old Fireblade or a Subaru) and we have a recipe for disaster.
Pointless arguing about who is to blame - the evidence is mixed and contradictory regarding motorcycle accidents - no one, not even separate parts of the (very anti-motorcycling)previous government could agree. I've read so much about this over the last few years and the evidence appears contradictory.
Born again bikers do seem to kill themselves with depressing regularity in single vehicle accidents.
Yet in accidents involving a car and a motorcycle, speed is not usually a factor. [url= http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/News/newsresults/mcn/2007/December/december-24-30/dec3107speedingonlyminorcauseofmotorcyclecrashes/ ]clicky.[/url]
Honestly, there is reams of this stuff, all with an agenda behind it.
I'd be happy to see more relevant testing for both cars and bikes, combined with a horsepower limit introduced for five years after passing a driving test for both drivers and motorcyclists.
Lets say 100hp for cars and 40hp for bikes - safe, but not excessive.
More controversially, how about forcing all drivers to cover a minimum of 10,000 road miles on a motorcycle before being allowed anywhere near a car and if possible (taking disability etc into account)
10,000 miles on a bicycle before being allowed near a motorcycle?
Fairplay TJ......
Most of my mates I grew up with rode motorbikes - their families were big into them.
From KR1S's, TZR125's KMX 125's, Fazers, Bandits, Fireblades, KTM Dukes they've pretty much had them all. And I've been on the back of most of them.
In general they have not had any bad accidents (apart from below) & as far as I can tell they ride pretty sensibly.
A couple of years ago though a mate of mine had a fairly bad accident through no fault of his own that I could see & is now left with a shoulder that works, but not very well.
That accident made me re-consider the fact that it could happen to anyone, regardless of how safe you ride and I think that's when I decided I'd never get a motorbike.
Where I live, it's quite easy to access the main road that goes along the northern bit of East Anglia out towards Norfolk and that road is a mecca for bikers on a sunny day. They all head for Hunstanton, Wells-next-the-sea etc. and whenever we go for a drive that way I would estimate it's a 50/50 mix of sensible bikers & loons who are gonna end up spread all over the road.
I followed a biker for about 3 miles yesterday evening and he nearly wrote himself off twice.
First time he slowed way down for a right hander, leant it in, then mid-corner he started looking down at this foot (gears?), turned too far and nearly swerved into oncoming traffic.
Second time he tried to give it more welly though an open left hander with a dip on the apex, as he hit the upslope he drifted way left and nearly hit a garden wall.
I was watching all this from a safe distance and probably driving a lot slower than usual on that stretch of road, it is frightening how easy it is for somebody to get out of their depth on a motorbike.
He was probably trying to see how close he could get his lean in/peg to the floor? (watched a few GP's).
More controversially, how about forcing all drivers to cover a minimum of 10,000 road miles on a motorcycle before being allowed anywhere near a car and if possible (taking disability etc into account)
10,000 miles on a bicycle before being allowed near a motorcycle?
It may be controversial, but it would almost certainly improve the roads.
I would say that your typical all-weathers motorcyclist or urban cyclist is a more observant/hazard aware car driver than the vast majority.
There is a lot of talk here that wouldn't be out of place on the comments of a Daily Mail article about cycling.
From the Office of National Statistics:
Motorcyclist road casualties, % from the whole of the UK in 2002: 6.5
Car Occupants road casualties, % from the whole of the UK in 2002: 69.7
We're missing the wood for the trees here. Cars kill, maim, and injure, motorbikes kill, maim and injure, and bitching about some Sunday motorcyclists isn't the best way to stop that. I'm far more concerned about the average joe bloggs monday to friday slaughtering people with their 'right' to drive.
mansonsoul- agree but thats a different potential-thread?
On Friday I was preparing to turn right at a junction on my bicycle and an overweight woman munching a Mcdonalds burger came within two inches of my ass. She scowled and I noticed she was using the steering wheel as a sort of prop/dinner plate!