[Closed] Oldie i know, but no weight loss despite lots of exercise....

OP,

First thing is to realise that you are very fit and healthy, even if you're heavier than you feel you should be. Lots of top-level rugby players are pretty bulky even though exceptionally fit.

But if you really do want to lose weight: 2 things that worked well for me are (1) running, which probably doesn't suit your situation (cos your commute is too far) and (2) 5:2 diet, or rather, just having an occasional day of really low calories. You'd have to adjust this a bit to cope with the cycling, but there's no harm in feeling a bit hungry occasionally so long as you don't completely bonk on the commute.

FWIW a fairly common (but very old school) trick we used to use in the 80s and 90s before Nutritionist was even a job title, let alone a billion dollar scam/industry was to just half the pasta/rice/potatoes with each meal for 2 or 3 weeks. Could usually shift 3 or 4 kilos in that time, if you left everything else the same. Was good for shifting that last bit of weight before the race season kicks off. I know a lot of people who've done this successfully. Especially if they are the type of person who bulks up a bit during the winter (bad weather, less miles, no racing, few parties)

I appreciate that portion control may be better, but adding it all up and using My Fitness Pal purely to log food/ calories consumed I am still in deficit each day according to the gizmos by about 1200 calories a day, whilst i presume this may well be an overestimation and these devices aren't hugely accurate, i must have a deficit each day.

So what this means is that your gimzos and/or calorie counting are not correct. As an example, how does My Fitness Pal work for a home cooked pasta dish? Do you input the weight of pasta you have consumed? It can't be accurate unless you do

i've thighs bigger than Hoy,

which is muscle, which hammering the bike more will only grow.

muscle does not weigh more than fat. but muscle occupies less volume than fat for the same weight.

i'm in a similar scenario i guess.. i've weighed around the same for a good 10 years. i ride to be able to ride more, faster, longer and that's happening. so i'm good. i'm reasonably short (5'7) and stocky. (I also used to play a little bit of rugby in my teens, hooker and scrum half).

Weren't the calorie counters on all these devices found to be massively (25-30% out) inaccurate as they are missing several absolutely key pieces of data needed to calculate an accurate figure?

I don't even know if any of my HRMs have calorie counters, wouldn't use them if they did.......

Plus there's calories and calories, as we should all know by now 🙂

It isn't all about calories in calories out... low carb and any other "diet" where do your 2900 calories a day come from? Are they from processed foods? Sugar? What are the macro ratios you hit each day? Have you used my fitness pal abd measured the food you eat? Do you constantly snack through three day or give yourself good breaks between meals?

I know it's a lot of questions but it's all relevant.

Do you input the weight of pasta you have consumed?

Yes you can do that.

Weren't the calorie counters on all these devices found to be massively (25-30% out) inaccurate as they are missing several absolutely key pieces of data needed to calculate an accurate figure?

It doesn't really matter how accurate the values are as long as they are precise. What is needed is a repeatable method to compare calories on a day to day basis, it doesn't really matter what the absolute calorific value of the food is.

I thought for cycling the best estimate for calorie burn = power x hours x 4
If you don't have a power meter, using Strava's estimated power is probably still more accurate than any HRM derived value.

I was 19 stone (6ft 4") at one point. Rode every second day. Bike fit I was. I restricted my carbs due to other health issues and boom now down to below 16 st. It was hell at first. Then over time it slowly got easier. I think my body is getting the energy I need from fats etc. I have reduced my carbs down to a quarter of what they were. It makes a massive difference on the bike to lose weight. I never eat white rice, pasta or bread. My carbs come from veg maybe 1 slice of proper whole grain brown bread and lentils and pulses etc. I lived on low fat white rice and pasta type dishes for years and for me it was contributing to damaging my health. I feel leaner now than I ever was and like you just need to loose that little bit around my middle. My body is all for hanging on to that bit! Nothing with added sugar in either!

it would be nice to one day don my lycra and not feel like i have to hold my breath in as i walk into work

I assumed this was no longer possible once you're over 40, without getting dysentery

I assumed this was no longer possible once you're over 40, without getting dysentery

As above are you actually weighing the pasta/ rice / etc (not sure if that dry or cooked weight) ? As I said fhe side of fhe packet for my breakfast say 360 calories a portion but I eat a portion of closer to 1000.

As many have said cut down the carbs, imho no need for any rice/pasta/bread (harder) for lunch. You will feel hungry as your body is used to you eating it but just eat the veg sauce, with a spoon if needed.

FYI another way I found worked for me was to excersize a bit before lunch and drink plenty of water as that reduced my appetite.

It doesn't really matter how accurate the values are as long as they are precise.

This sentence contradicts itself

When it comes to pasta/ rice/ cous cous etc, at first i didn't weigh them, but as above i have scales for my daughter (being T1) that give a very accurate break down of the calories/ carbs/ protein/ fat in a food stuff, they need to be accurate as i have giving her insulin at mealtimes based upon the grams of carbs within a food stuff.

I very rarely eat takeaway food, none delivers to my rural village, and all meals are homemade by me, so as curries which would be a lot of veg and brown rice, pasta again with wholemeal pasta, stir- frys etc.

As my daughters diet for her T1 means we try to restrict refined carbs, then my diet has got a lot better too.

i have tried the 5:2 diet for a while, found that i was just tired and towards the end of the commuting week, had nothing left in the tank.

I even tried Huel ( https://huel.com/) as a mate gave it to me as he couldn't stomach it, so that i could exactly count calories for at least breakfast and lunch, knocked that on the head pretty quick as it is grim!!

Thanks all again for the advice, essentially i think i need to being as strict as i can with calories, make sure those calories come from the right foods (which i largely do), perhaps reduce them over time until i know that i can no longer fuel the commuting and cancel my Beerbods.co.uk subscription!!

It doesn't really matter how accurate the values are as long as they are precise.

This sentence contradicts itself

It does to the layman but to the scientist accuracy and precision are very different things.

Something can be precise without being accurate.

Accuracy is about how near you are to the real actual value.
Precision is about how repeatable it is so as long as it always says that 100g of rice is 400 calories and 100g of potatoes is 300 calories (numbers made up) then it is being precise. It might not be accurate as 100g of rice might actually be 250 calories and 100g of potatoes mights be 175 calories.

not sure if I actually explained that very well - someone else may do a better job!!

according to my Garmin after 28 mile ride home, often it will say i've burnt about 1800 calories!

muscle does not weigh more than fat. but muscle occupies less volume than fat for the same weight.

By that logic doesn't every material weigh the same ❓

i have tried the 5:2 diet for a while, found that i was just tired and towards the end of the commuting week, had nothing left in the tank

That's because you're adjusted to use muscle glycogen stores.. need to readjust to use fat. In other words keep at it for a month

i have tried the 5:2 diet for a while, found that i was just tired and towards the end of the commuting week, had nothing left in the tank
That's because you're adjusted to use muscle glycogen stores.. need to readjust to use fat. In other words keep at it for a month

Will give this a more prolonged try, what sort of calorie intake did you try to cut back to on the to days? Recommended is about 500 cals?

Garmin and apps are only a algorithm. An educated guess. Personally I don't put much faith in them and find counting up the stuff I eat tedious. We all metabolise the food differently and are different fitness and activity levels. Too many variables to be accurate.

What dosent lie is the scales.

I found small changes long term worked, are easy to control and don't impact on my training. Training hard requires more food. But it has to be training not junk miles. This is where I think most people make the mistake. Remember your body will adapt and function on less as you get fitter.

I haven't read all your replies scud but have you also tried fasting exercise. I often do it on the ride or run to work, was a bit difficult for a week or so but now it's easy. I didn't need to lose weight, in fact if mine starts to drop below 53kg I make a point of eating a bit more, I did it to see if it made me less likely to bonk on longer rides if I didn't eat much and to see if I could then carry on until that passed. It seems to work for me. My diet is virtually often vegan and always vegetarian so tends to have a good amount of carbs but not anything very refined as those things just don't appeal to me.

It does to the layman but to the scientist accuracy and precision are very different things.

Something can be precise without being accurate.

I did think some smart arse would be along to explain 🙂 I understand.

It doesn't really matter how accurate the values are as long as they are precise. What is needed is a repeatable method to compare calories on a day to day basis, it doesn't really matter what the absolute calorific value of the food is.

Comparing one precise but inaccurate system to itself is fine. However to compare the results from two systems (e.g. My Fitness Pal for calorie intake and say Strava for work done) they both need have the same accuracy and precision, no?

E.g. if My Fitness Pal is precisely under-estimating and Strava is precisely over-estimating, yet you believe both systems are accurate then you're going to wonder why you've got a discrepancy. So both systems need to be accurate and precise to draw any worthwhile meaning from the result

Do you input the weight of pasta you have consumed?

Yes you can do that.

So, does the OP do that?

canopy

muscle does not weigh more than fat. but muscle occupies less volume than fat for the same weight.

And that... Ladies and Gentlemen is the sort of cutting edge, well thought out 'science' you'll find coming out of most Health and Fitness 'experts' (sorry to pick on you Canopy).

When I decided I wanted to do something about it, I first spoke to my GP and an NHS Dietician, they gave me very boring, common sense, 'obvious' advice, not very sexy. Then I spoke to 'experts' who told me that was all wrong and you can make huge gains for almost no effort by buying this, and buying at - pay someone £30 an hour to tell you how to jog on a treadmill or £130 to give you a cut and paste 'bespoke' diet to follow etc etc - all very sexy stuff - but it's all smoke and mirrors.

If you want to lose weight follow the Billy Connolly plan - "eat less, move more" but you need to be honest about how much less you need to eat or how much more you need to move. Once you've got that cracked you can then refine the process to make sure you're getting the right stuff and more importantly you're getting enough food - if you're on 1700cals a day or something, you're not going to waste 250 of those on a Mars bar, when you know you can have a plate of veggies for the same amount.

OP - what about the beers/booze intake ? I think jambalaya mentioned it way up on first page. A few pints a week and I pop up a couple of pounds without changing what I eat.

Pretty much no beer now, albeit replaced with red wind and spirits !

Correct Dmorts

You can't compare the results from 2 different systems without doing a calibration between the 2.

Sorry if I missed this, but did you say how tall are you?

And do you have visible wobbly bits, or are you a granite-sculpted man mountain?

Can't comment on the all the diet stuff, apart from saying that's a hefty daily commute you are doing, and you'll need to be fuelled for it.

Taking a slightly different tack, you said you wanted more oomph and to "feel like a cyclist". I'd suggest focussing on training the things you want to improve, and how you use that commuting time. You mentioned spinning in Z2 for a rest, but I would consider Z2 as active base training, not an easy spin. Perhaps look at your current riding and make sure you are really clear about what is rest, base and intensity. Perhaps your lows need to be lower and your peaks could be higher?

I cant talk about the science of this but last year I was in much the same place.

I had been losing weight steadily though eating less and cycling more then suddenly it all stopped, my weight stayed exactly the same for weeks. I got obsessive, prepared everything from scratch weighing and logging everything, no change, I played with the macros, again no change.

I then changed my exercise routine; I bought a TRX and some weights and started to substitute some rides with weight sessions in the house. At this point I thought nothing was changing but I stuck with it. I then realized that my clothes were continuing to get looser, when I measured my arms and chest, which was the one thing I had not been obsessing about I realized I was shrinking without losing weight.

A couple of weeks after I started to lose weight again.

I have now continued to lose in this way for the past 6 months, it is slow but consistent.

I have no idea on the science, but my theory is that my body had effectively adapted to the cycling and become very efficient so I wasn't burning even close the stated calories on the Garmin. By doing something else I caused a change that re-started the loss.

I now mix it up as much as possible, Gym, tennis, the odd bit of running as well as the cycling. I only lose about a pound a week but I will get there in the end.

Good luck to you whatever methodology you use.

I then changed my exercise routine

Change has a huge effect. Problem is, you then get used to it, so you need to keep changing it!

There's no mention of your age which is a factor too. I'm in the same boat, 55 yrs old but probably fitter than 99% of people my age, but have edged up to nearly 16st. I'm 6' 4" which helps, but its the band of fat round my middle I find annoying and very difficult to shift.

I enjoy beer, wine, crisps and cakes, so I've only got myself to blame! I'm not going to go on a diet as I know I'll never stick to it, but I'm trying to find ways of getting back to a respectable 15.5lbs without changing too much and so far its not working! 😕

[i]molgrips - Member
Change has a huge effect. Problem is, you then get used to it, so you need to keep changing it!
[/i]

Rotating through a variety of preferred/interesting to you, sports/activities isn't a bad thing, if you have the time, especially if one takes into account, seasonality.

[i]Rockape63 - Member
There's no mention of your age which is a factor too. I'm in the same boat, 55 yrs old but probably fitter than 99% of people my age, but have edged up to nearly 16st. I'm 6' 4" which helps, but [b]its the band of fat round my middle[/b] I find annoying and very difficult to shift.[/i]

You describe the typical middle aged distribution of excess body fat in Men, it's genes baby!

[i]I enjoy beer, wine, crisps and cakes, so I've only got myself to blame! [b]I'm not going to go on a diet as I know I'll never stick to it[/b], but I'm trying to find ways of getting back to a respectable 15.5lbs without changing too much and so far its not working!
[/i]
Slight contradiction there. You appear to claim you could never stick to a diet, but you're already sticking to a diet which includes beer, wine, crisps and cakes. The result of which appears to result in that annoying spare tyre.
But you're sticking to your current diet, no?

Shame these threads always attract a certain type of smart arse.

OP just eat half the pasta/rice/bread etc you are doing now and cut down the beers too if you are having a few pints each week. One of the other posters suggested this already - half the carbs

IMO you will feel different / tired as your body is used to / at equilibrium at the moment.

OP - what about the beers/booze intake ? I think jambalaya mentioned it way up on first page. A few pints a week and I pop up a couple of pounds without changing what I eat.

Definitely a quality, over quantity man these days, nothing really on a school night otherwise i struggle to get up at 5am (and during night to test daughters bloods), but friday night and sometimes saturday night, i'll probably have two bottles of old mans brown beer or one or two glasses of red.

There's no mention of your age which is a factor too.

chakaping - Member
Sorry if I missed this, but did you say how tall are you?

And do you have visible wobbly bits, or are you a granite-sculpted man mountain?

I'm a 41, 5'10" Taurus, GSOH, and own teeth, call me...

Build wise, i look like someone who spent from the ages of 17 to 30 in the gym training to play rugby at a decent level, big shoulders, neck, chest and thighs, unfortunately i seem to have gone squidgy in the middle...

And don't get me started on buying road cycling clothing, according to Castelli and chums, i am sure Frankie Detori is a Xl size!!

Slight contradiction there. You appear to claim you could never stick to a diet, but you're already sticking to a diet which includes beer, wine, crisps and cakes. The result of which appears to result in that annoying spare tyre.
But you're sticking to your current diet, no?

well, yes it does read a bit like that, but Ive actually been cutting down on the cakes and crisps, whilst not giving them up completely of course. Ive upped the exercise too, but its not shifting! 🙁

Having been on holiday for a fortnight made me think more about my longer term strategy, but I need to be strong to see it through! 🙁

So Scud....you can see it doesn't get any easier as at 41 I was probably below 15st 5lbs and in much better shape and Ive never let up on the fitness levels.

[i]Rockape63 - Member
well, yes it does read a bit like that, but Ive actually been cutting down on the cakes and crisps, whilst not giving them up completely of course. Ive upped the exercise too, but its not shifting!

Having been on holiday for a fortnight made me think more about my longer term strategy, but I need to be strong to see it through! [/i]

I sympathize with your situation. As this thread and most of the others on this forum demonstrate, there's more than one way to look at the problem.
You may have noticed I've taken a view along the lines of trying to understand how the body operates with respect to accumulating excess body fat. How that happens and how to tap that excellent source of energy.
YMMV.

🙂

Edit:
Forgot to mention, I don't see any reason to totally give up small indulgences. I think frequency is more often the issue.

Sorry if I have missed it but do you weigh your food when entering it into MFP?

When I used the app, I would weigh something for the first few days and then have an idea how much of each food made up a portion. When my progress stalled and I started weighing food again, some of the portions were nearly double what they should be.

I also used to take the calories burned from exercise figure with a large pinch of salt. If it said I had earned 800 for example, I would eat no more than 400 as extra food.

...all meals are homemade by me, so as curries which would be a lot of veg and brown rice, pasta again with wholemeal pasta, stir- frys etc.

Do you work out the calories for these?

MFP has a pretty handy 'recipe' function where you can put in the actual weights / ingredients that you use and how many servings that gives, and it will give you a calorie / nutritional breakdown for the meal and add make it easy to add it to your daily diary. It's a mild PITA to do, but you only need to do it once for each recipe.

I found that MFP and Strava estimated calories were very similar for a given activity - How do these figures compare to those from your HRM?

Oh, and log *everything!* 🙂

Eating your large meal of the day in the evening is counter productive. You need the fuel before the exercise not after when it will mostly be stored. So despite weighing and controlling portions its not being delivered when you need it most. Prior to exercise. Consider small salad in the evening and upping breakfast and lunch.

Breakfast like a king, lunch like a prince and tea like a pauper. One thing I've always been guilty of is eating a main meal far to late. If I miss my tea I'll just have a snack. It took me about 8 weeks for my body to adjust to the lack of carbs. Exercising was especially hard at first. I can remember not being able to generate any body heat and feeling cold all the time. My weight loss has stabilised but my waist is still reducing slowly so I guess I'm putting on a bit of muscle from the exercising. I've got an old rowing machine that is like a torture machine that is great for my core and upper body. Mixing it up is the key I think.

I'd echo what pawsy and inbred say, a big evening meal is counterproductive; having read geraint Thomas' book on cycling the hungry sleeping is a well made point.

Good luck 🙂

I am a big lad too and do lots of different sports, nothing ever really changed body wise until I started boxing. Go to a non-contact boxing training class 3 x 1hr a week. I bet you fifty quid the weight starts to come down and you don't have to watch your diet too closely, apart from the obvious no junk... or maybe 1 night a week as I do.

well, yes it does read a bit like that, but Ive actually been cutting down on the cakes and crisps, whilst not giving them up completely of course. Ive upped the exercise too, but its not shifting!