[Closed] Old chestnut: Mac or PC laptop

the argument is always skewed because apple only make expensive quality laptops. Look at a top end PC laptop and it'll be a comparable price as the macbook equivalent.

If you're using CC, then buy a second hand 17" Macbook Pro thats a few years old, whack the RAM up in it and fit a SSD (budget an additional £250 for this). Or buy one thats had that done already. It'll then be as fast as a flashy brand new one and will do you for years of happy, fast Adobe usage

PC's are shit! PC laptops are even worse!!

For Creative Suite just get a Mac.

What Binners said, apart from the last bit. It's all about the right tool for the job.

Bottom line is that it doesn't really matter.

Mac's are a bit less of a minefield when purchasing though (fewer to choose from).

Buy whatever you fancy, which you're used to, or whatever the people you're working with have.

Long gone are the days when there was anything to choose between them.
I've owned both, worked in places that have both and I couldn't care less as long as I can work in familiar software (i.e. Adobe CC).

When looking previously I've found that the best laptop with a combination of everything, screen; build quality; portability; keyboard; processor; RAM, tends to be a macbook pro.

If you can sacrifice portability and screen then there are probably gaming pc laptops with more powerful GPU's that will serve you well.

Its a minefield. Whats your budget ? and how portable. it makes a difference. I'm looking at getting a laptop for Adobe CC type stuff as well.

I get some of the notion of just get a Mac ... but I just can't see it being justifiable these days. Especially the newest ones ... without an SD card reader built in ... I mean really. Thats a deal breaker for me. Dongles are shit to carry about and lose and just add faff when out and about. Cant upgrade the memory in them. Cant replace the battery in them without a whole new chassis replacement. The only thing you can change is the SSD card ... of which there is only 1 - so limited expandability.

Take a medium to higher end 15" laptop PC. A lot now have 2 memory slots for easy upgrade yourself through taking the base off. An SSD M2 card slot + a full size SSD slot and a battery which you can at least take out and replace with a few screws. So in theory, you could get something with less memory at the outset and storage with a view upgrading them further down the line when prices fall, which they inevitably do.

The thing that I'm pouring over at the moment is whether to push for a better display in a laptop and whether a 3k or 4k display is going to be worth it. If in the image editing the colour quality in important, then it needs to be a good sRGB coverage, and there is only few that are 1920x1080 but have good coverage. A lot of the 3k/4k displays have good coverage though.

With that in mind, one of the laptops i'm looking over at the moment is a base spec Alienware 15. A good quality 1080p display. A latest level nVidia GTX 1060M and a quad i7 CPU. More than enough to handle Adobe CC with accelerated graphics. A ton of expandability and reviews which imply that its build quality is very good.

Lastly, I'm beginning to find OSX usability is piss poor in terms of file and folder handling, as well as general UI elements which really slow me down and frustrate me. E.g. when in a saving dialogue, can't right click in a folder space to bring up menu to create new folder within ... windows you can. Or when a pop up appears, you can't use the arrow keys to select which option/button and press enter to select it, instead having to grab the mouse and select an option with the pointer. In windows you can just arrow across and select. ITs tiny things like that which I find really slows me down when using the OS.

I don't even understand what any of that even means. Nor do I want too. Which is why I bought a Mac 😀

*goes back to colouring in*

Who's ever used the SD card reader!

Nope. Not once.

the-muffin-man - Member
For Creative Suite just get a Mac.

If you're a traditionalist, aye. But there's not really any reason not to buy a pc. either/or works fine.

OP, if you want the PC laptop equivalent of a Macbook Pro, look at the Dell XPS 13 and the HP Spectre x360.

Even as a mac fanboy going back 20 years or more, I bought a lenovo u31 this time around. Spec, ports, price, upgradeability - it's better in every regard. Trackpad is not as good as the macbook pros though.

Apple seems to have given up on OSX as well, whereas W10 is receiving a lot of development.

Apple seems to have given up on OSX as well, whereas W10 is receiving a lot of development.

????

You mean the OS they've updated every year for the past 6 years!

We've gone down the Apple route at home because I came to more and more hate using Windows. We now have I-phone, I-pad and Mac, all of which talk to each other no problem. Bit of an initial learning curve but not that much, and now can't see us ever going back.

Love the fact that the Apple stuff just basically works. Oh, and it doesn't spend about 50% of the time doing updates.

Apple seems to have given up on OSX as well, whereas W10 is receiving a lot of development.

Yeah... or the other way of wording that:

[i]"if it ain't broke, don't fix it"[/i]

Well, I suppose they have given up on OS X. It's called Mac OS now... 😉

Rachel

It is a wee bit annoying to lose the SD slot, but then most cameras transfer by wifi now anyway, so not really a biggie is it?

[quote=binners ]
Yeah... or the other way of wording that:
"if it ain't broke, don't fix it"

Good point, I just can't think of anything genuinely new and useful in the last few releases other than the synchronised clipboard feature. That is pretty decent.

[quote=allthegear ]Well, I suppose they have given up on OS X. It's called Mac OS now...
Rachel

Harking back to the heady days of system 8 8)

"if it ain't broke, don't fix it"

which is sort of when the exchange rate changed... I think... 😉

As above if you spec a Windiws laptop to a similar standard to a MacBook Pro the price is quite similar and therefore imo the Mac is a no brainer

OP given what you want to do a decent amount of RAM is required which for a new mac has to be ordered when buying the machine.

It's funny, I never actually 'liked' my laptop until I got a Mac.

Of course, back in the dark days when I had a PC laptop, I would like it for a few weeks, until the novelty of the purchase had worn off, then it would just turn into 'a computer'.

My current Macbook is over a year old and I LOVE IT. This is the difference.

It's funny, I never actually 'liked' my laptop until I got a Mac.

I always disliked using computers, found them overly complicated to operate. It always felt as though the process could be simpler. Then I got an iMac. The operating system feels designed; considered, as opposed to being put together from a load of bits that could work with each other. There are so many things that seem to take even one less click of the mouse. Drag and drop an application and there it is - no drivers or things to adjust. The pop-up Dock. Tabs in the Finder windows. No frequent "why has it gone all slow?!?" moments while it decides to update itself. Significantly fewer upsets in general. Trackpads and swipe/gesture-based OS - what a simple but fantastic way to navigate and makes Windows look so cumbersome. The keyboards are physically nicer objects to interact with, although I suppose higher-spec Windows computers might have this quality of hardware. Should I mention the Retina screens and how much less tiring they are, even after a few hours of video editing or colour grading?

I have to use Windows 10 computers most days for CAD, and my heart always sinks a little as the PC starts booting up. And It's almost jarring to swipe onto Windows virtual desktop on the MBP - it looks/feels like is was made by people who just like having to do things - click the mouse or go into menus - because it makes them feel relevant or part of the process. I hope I never have to buy a Windows machine ever again.

Apple seems to have given up on OSX as well, whereas W10 is receiving a lot of development.

????

You mean the OS they've updated every year for the past 6 years!

I have to say, the [s]Unix[/s] Mac OS feels very dated. One might get the impression that they're putting most of their resources into mobile technology.

Microsoft on the other hand, are making a big effort to move their desktop software into the future. Opinions might be mixed whether they're succeeding or not, but they feel light years ahead of Mac.

Having worked on them, I'm really not a fan of Macs and would take a PC any day. But much of it is personal preference really.

There is good and bad with both. Overall, I like Apple stuff. I have an iMac as the main desktop machine, but as I say, there are aspects of using it which I just find frustrating on a repeating basis, and that to complete the task I want to do often ends up getting the mouse and dragging it all the way about the screen to click on something - when I could have just pressed a single key on a windows machine.

I admit I grew up through DOS, OS/2, Win 3.1 and windows user interface keyboard shortcuts are ingrained into my ways of working, and Apple is a relatively newer UI to me ( 4 years I guess now ) ... but the initial ooohh, ahhh, thats pretty or thats clever has faded when it comes down to wanting to actually use it properly.

And as for Finder ... shoot me now!

Some helpful thoughts - thanks everyone. I'm not sure I'm any closer to making a decision!

If it's for me, a PC, if it’s for Mum, Dad, friends, grandparents, it’s a Mac so I don’t have to spend hours supporting them.

Best thing around imo currently is a Surface Book. Very lovely machines.

Go into a shop and have a look at comparably priced PCs and Macs.

Significantly fewer upsets in general. Trackpads and swipe/gesture-based OS - what a simple but fantastic way to navigate and makes Windows look so cumbersome.

You can get that now on PCs - and it's customisable too. The trackpad on this Surface Pro 4 is beautiful to use.

For me the main thing against Apple is their dictatorship approach. You do it Apple's way using Apple's stuff.

I'm with molgrips on this one. I have a mix of products (Apple and PC) around the home and at work, and the one thing I use constantly is the Surface Book. It is the finest bit of kit I have owned for a good few years, and that's including regularly updates iPhone handsets.

For me the main thing against Apple is their dictatorship approach. You do it Apple's way using Apple's stuff.

Plus, this ^ offends every libertarian fibre in my body.

A 5yr old Mac is worth 50% of what you paid for it (probably more). A 5yr old PC/laptop is worth zero or it's stopped working.

When I was in the US in the 90's there was a joke that if you bought a Jaguar you where a mechanic or you wanted to become one. The Windows fans here who have older machines seem to be dominated numbers wise by Microsoft support engineers. A coincidence 😉 ?

Note a degree of artistic licence but you get my point OP.

Price up similar spec machines in terms of screen quality, ssd and ram (16gb if you want the graphics processing). Then factor in mac vs windows laptop resale. Then decide.

For me the main thing against Apple is their dictatorship approach

Pretty ironic Windows over Mac argument when Gates has personally made $30bn putting competitors out of business either via exclusivity agreements or market muscle (ie he buys their business and then cans it). I appreciate that as a software business Microsoft never tied down their hardware. However as a relatively tied (and increasingly so) hardware platform Apple has emerged as the winner in business terms (see relative share price performance)

@fisha me too, I built my first computer with a soldering iron from a box of bits in the 70's. Apple shortcuts are quite similar (deliberately) <cmd key> <letter> ... eg safari windows text <cmd><+> or <-> or F3 or F4 to switch or launch apps, <cmd><t> for new findsr tab .... I still use those more than gestures not least as I "only" have a magic mouse.

Pretty ironic Windows over Mac argument when Gates has personally made $30bn putting competitors out of business either via exclusivity agreements or market muscle (ie he buys their business and then cans it).

I wasn't talking about that, I was talking about the relationship with users.

I think a lot of people suffer from not knowing all the Windows tricks and tips. There's no training material on it.

For example, I never look for anything in the start menu any more. I just tap the windows key then type, and I find it. You don't even have to know exactly what it's called either, it'll give you a bunch of options. Or sometimes if I am on my own I'll simply ask for what I want 🙂

Also - if you have apps pinned to the taskbar, you can press windows key and a number, and you'll get the app in that position. So since Edge is the second icon, windows + 2 brings it up. Only found that out yesterday.

Adults only, gets a bit sweary

So molgrips, what are the features or processes of macOS that you particularly liked when you used it?

I've never used MacOS. At least, not since about 1996.

Thought not, so that's pretty much you done with ever arguing about it again.

Well to say I'm flavour of the month in the Binners household right now is the understatement of the year. Mrs Binners Christmas present has just turned up. A lovely shiny MacBook 🙂 it's a refurb, but is indistinguishable from new, save the extra RAM and big SSD I had put in it. Boots in 25 seconds.

She'd got into the habit of using my MacBook Pro, but opted for some bizarre reason to get a PC laptop a few months back. No... me neither. I think it's because everyone at work is PC based. It's fair to say that right from day one she's absolutely hated the thing. With a passion! For all the reasons listed by various people already. It gets sworn at quite a lot. Mainly as it tries to update its crap agricultural operating system what seems like every half hour.

If anyone would like to pop round and argue the case that PC Laptops are better than Macs with her, I suspect she'd be quite happy to force-feed it to you, sideways, or wrap it round your head. 😀

I expect we'll sacrificially set fire to it, or throw it in a pond

...throw it my way - my daughter needs a new pooter! 😀

Thought not, so that's pretty much you done with ever arguing about it again.

I think you're confusing me with someone else. I've never said MacOS is rubbish, I've always advised people to treat them equally and make their own minds up. And I've said Windows is NOT rubbish, and Linux is of limited value.

I don't like Apple's approach, but my main gripe is with fanbois. And I have experience of them.

I don't like Apple's approach...

You don't know what it is! You don't use their products, haven't for twenty years! How long is twenty years in terms of computer development? You rely on here-say* and "fanboys" to arrive at an opinion. You may not say that macOS is rubbish, but you make an abundance of comparative counterpoints when you have no comparative experience.

*not the band, but probably might as well be.

I don't like Apple's approach...

You don't know what it is!

That's a bit disingenuous, everybody knows Apples approach.

You don't know what it is!

From what I understand:

It's a more protective approach. So their OS only goes on their hardware. Third party component support is somewhat limited, and all drivers etc have to be approved. I think all their apps in the iOS store also have to be approved.

This has the advantage of removing the dross apps and drivers, but it pushes up costs and reduces choice. And arguably limits innovation to just Apple innovations.

Is any of that wrong?

binners - Member
It's fair to say that right from day one she's absolutely hated the thing. With a passion! For all the reasons listed by various people already. It gets sworn at quite a lot. Mainly as it tries to update its crap agricultural operating system what seems like every half hour.

So OSX is better cause your missus can't operate windows? 😆

@molgrips - pretty much it except for the innovation bit - Apple have a history of acquisition as well. Apple use a limited selection of components so have fewer integration problems to deal with. I'm always amazed at Windows managing to run at all with the number of permutations of hardware that are around.

The Apple approach of pre-validation and testing means (or should mean) that there are fewer problems and bugs once the product gets to the consumer which contrasts with the MS approach where the consumer tends to be the tester.

Depending on what you want a computer for, any of the three main OSes will fine and more than up to the job. I use Mac at home and Linux at work, my last employer used Linux and Windows. My (nearly) eight year old iMac has had three OS updates but is still as fast and stable as when I got it. Yes I have to wait if I'm transcoding video or doing video work actually but it's usually a matter of setting the task going then going and doing something else while it gets on with it. If I didn't want to wait or it was my job then I'd get a much, much more powerful computer but for the occasional editing and uploading to Vimeo it's fine.