[Closed] Oh look- Union power over nasty selfish greedy company!

Greedy workers with over-inflated sense of entitlement bang another nail in their own employer's commercial coffin for selfish reasons - yay!

MINORITY of

Greedy workers with over-inflated sense of entitlement bang another nail in BA's commercial coffin for selfish reasons - yay!

FTFY

Looks like you two are going to have to go to ACAS for arbitration. Come along or I'll bang your bloody heads together

Ok so I assume you'll be taking a massive paycut and give up other work-related perks for the benefit of your employers then Molly?

No? Well shoosh then silly boy. 🙄

Greedy workers with over-inflated sense of entitlement bang another nail in their own employer's commercial coffin for selfish reasons

Care to back any of that up with anything meaningful in the way of evidence ?

I was only playing devil's advocate there of course, I don't know the situation.

However, purely hypothetically (ie not related to BA) if my employer was in trouble then yes I would take a pay and benefits cut.

However if my employer was in trouble then yes I would take a pay and benefits cut.

As BA pilots and many other staff did.

Ok so I assume you'll be taking a massive paycut and give up other work-related perks for the benefit of your employers then Molly?

Well, I had to. 20%-ish pay cut last year. Put up and shut up.

@ molgrips you could have just said.............

no.

In all seriousness I know this is a very complicated situation and I would not pronounce on it either way, since I'm not involved.

Well, I had to. 20%-ish pay cut last year. Put up and shut up.

well you could obviously afford it otherwise i guess you'd move on elsewhere, as could

BA pilots and many other staff

those on strike obviously couldn't.

good for them.

Nice payrise on one hand. Productivity changes on another. Everyone's a winner. 😀

Oh right, cos of course the BA bosses are setting an example by taking a salary cut as well, aren't they?

[url= http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/oct/27/ba-bosses-post-merger-pay-deals ]

BA chief executive Willie Walsh, who will take on the same post at the enlarged International Consolidated Airlines Group (IAG), will see his pay rise 12% from £735,000 to £825,000 a year, according to investor merger documents. And he could pick up a potential cash-and-shares annual bonus of up to £1.65m if he exceeds performance targets, capped at 200% of base salary.

Keith Williams, chief financial officer of BA, will earn a 43% rise in annual salary from £440,000 to £630,000 when he is promoted to chief executive of BA following the merger. His maximum annual bonus has been set at 150% of salary, or £945,000.

Oh but of course, they worked for nowt the previous month so it's alright then. No?

otherwise i guess you'd move on elsewhere

Why didn't anyone think of that?

those on strike obviously couldn't.

Was this not about travel concessions?

You can afford not to have free flights surely?

isn't 7% over 2 years a pay cut, given the 5% inflation rate at the moment

To one of the many jobs currently flooding the workplace of course.

It's pretty straitforwrad, move elsewhere or fight for your rights. Telling others to get shafted just cos you have doesn't make much sense.

Was this not about travel concessions?

well if it was only about that then why is pay part of the bargain.

of course it could be that the media focus on the travel concessions part of the dispute in order to demonise the strikers.

A great example of a useless dispute. Walsh tried and failed to break the union and ended up with pretty much what the union offered before the strikes which was most of his claimed aim(setting aside the union breaking)

I hope the shareholders sack Walsh for wasting millions to achieve nothing

Free flights has been a perk at BA for [i]thousands of years[/i]. One of the things that attracted people to work there. And an example of a company doing something nice for it's employees, who collectively generate those huge profits that company enjoyed in the past. Keeping up morale amongst employers, invariably means higher productivity and standards.

Ok, so maybe a limit on the amount of free/reduced cost travel for workers, but to remove the perk altogether was just a nasty move. Good on the workers and Unite for getting their perks reinstated.

Oi, Flashy; I'm assuming you always travel using budget airlines/economy class, stay in the lowest price hotels and spend your own money on food and that, to save your employers money and maximise their profits then? Hmm?

You know you milk it for all you can get so you can shoosh too.

Actually I'm with TJ on this. It all smacks of office politics rather than actual economic concerns.

another nail in their own employer's commercial coffin for selfish reasons

I think we can safely assume that BA can afford this settlement (unless of course you have absolutely no faith in BA management).

Which begs the question why did BA not settle sooner ?

Of course everyone knows that employers very rarely concede to anything unless they have to. Only some people prefer to pretend that's not the case.

well you could obviously afford it otherwise i guess you'd move on elsewhere, as could

If there was jobs I might. Of course, you can't save £50 a month by cancelling the Sky subscription, stopping the nights out, or selling the second car. Oh no. That's too much like bleedin' common sense. I can honestly say, I'd never ever strike for anything. I'm just not that way inclined. All I can see it doing is shooting yourself in the foot. Mugs game.

Rant over.

Of course, you can't save £50 a month by cancelling the Sky subscription, stopping the nights out, or selling the second car. Oh no. That's too much like bleedin' common sense

Of course you're working on the assumption that the strikers have those luxuries to give up in the first place.

Nah, I fly BA whenever possible, Fred! Business on long haul, cattle on short.

Hotels tend to be places where I get a corporate rate, which is nice.

Don't like to waste money on work travel.

I fly BA whenever possible, Fred! Business on long haul

Don't like to waste money on work travel.

BA are often the most spensive option. And if you 'don't like to waste money', why aren't you flying 'cattle class' as you call it, on long-haul too?

Hypocrite, that's why.

Not at all, Fred. For the most recent flying I've done, BA have been cheaper overall. (For example, a trip to Barcelona in March was £79 return on BA, which when other fees are included was cheaper than Sleazyjet). Plus a much nicer airline to fly with! Am very glad they've got this sorted out.

Ok I'll let you off then.

Im with PP on this - just because you're current employer isn't in a position to maintain your wages desn't mean you can just up sticks and move elsewhere.

I took a 20% paycut in feb to keep my job, I don't have the option of going to another job in my industry as 15-20% of the industry has folded in the last 3 years. Unless I want to go to Oz that is. I took the cut so the company keeps going. I don't have a union, however I know if all the engineers here had walked out on strike then the company would have folded in no short order and everyone would be screwed.

Maybe its different with a big company like BA, but my view is that in times of hardship everyone should pull together to keep the company going rather than do the selfish thing.

For the most recent flying I've done, BA have been cheaper overall.

So not only are you a hypocrite, but you're a cheapskate too ?

.

EDIT : Just seen this, [i]"Ok I'll let you off then"[/i] ......wtf ?

Yeah, all well and good, but BA are expecting staff to suck up pay cuts/freezes and no more perks, when their chief execs are getting massive pay increases and bonuses.

So, what sort of message does that send out to the workers? That they aren't valued or appreciated, and just there to generate revenue for shareholders and chief execs to enjoy.

Should never have privatised BA.

Hmm, I wonder who we can blame for that?

Oh......

So not only are you a hypocrite, but you're a cheapskate too ?

Yep. Sipping on a bloody mary (assuming it's a later flight) 😉

Which leads me on to a serious rant about BA.

On my last long haul flight, not only had they run out of Chablis, there was no Tabasco for my bloody mary. NO TABASCO! What kind of tinpot operation are they, eh? 😉

No, that is unacceptable, Flashy, I have to agree.

there was no Tabasco for my bloody mary

I don't know what you're on about mate 😕

Can't see why you need to refer to your other half in those terms either.

😆

isn't 7% over 2 years a pay cut, given the 5% inflation rate at the moment

better than my 0% rise over the next 3yrs

So these employers who can't afford to keep their employees paid...when times are good and they're back in clover, and the shareholders are getting the dividends (God forbid we should forget the shareholders), will the employees be getting a backdated lumpsum to make up for the "cut"?

You 'aven't seen his other half, Ernie... 😯

God forbid we should forget the shareholders

The ones that gave the company money to help them invest and consequently now own part of it?

Yes, exactly Molly. Like I said, god forbid we should forget them.

Yeah but if you invest in a company, don't you also have a responsibility to ensure decent working conditions for the employees?

Or is it ok to say 'sod the workers I just want more money'?

No, if you RUN a company you have a responsibility to ensure decent conditions. Different.

But what constitutes decent? That is the issue.

When I worked for a company, I thought about the shareholders every morning as I got into my car to trawl off across the country to flog a pile of shite to someone who didn't really want it. If it wasn't for the shareholders' welfare, I'm not sure I could have done it tbh. It's probably the one thing I miss about being self-employed; not having the shareholders to think about. Sometimes, I have to think about my own welfare to motivate myself. It makes me feel dirty and selfish, so it does. 😐

I thought about the shareholders every morning

Did you not think about your own wage? Or did you take that for granted?

Did you not think about your own wage? Or did you take that for granted?

I'm trying to remember. I thanked himself above that there was money left over to pay me after the shareholders had had theirs. My wage was usually the furthest thing from my mind.