[Closed] Ofsted, special measures, academisation questions

You can polish a turd, call it a pooh, but it still stinks of shit.

its the same failing teachers and management team, in probably the same buildings with a nice new sign outside and a new school slogan, but spelt in latin

Not sure if it's still the case, but the big O always used to give new conversions a couple of years before inspecting.

I forget which teaching union did it but a couple of years ago there was an foi request that revealed that in primaries, after inspections, those who subsequently became academies were more likely to have a lower ofsted rating (than the one they had previously) on a subsequent inspection than those who stayed under local authority and were inspected again. So your headteacher can bask in the confidence that the best/only evidence we have is that his new academy is more likely to come off worse next time around.

Yep, the school won't get looked at for a couple of years to get itself together.

What areas did it fail in?

its the same failing teachers and management team, in probably the same buildings with a nice new sign outside and a new school slogan, but spelt in latin

Good chance of that, however, a new person at the top and it can be amazing how much better the rest can be /V.O.E

Oh, and don't underestimate the political will to engineer academisation. Has your local authority managed to wash its hands of everything else youth services related? The offloading of responsibility for your daughter's school might be the final piece of the jigsaw.

I wouldn't take much notice. Nothing will really change. Every government will do the usual trick of changing the rules and ensuring that more energy and money is spent on ticking boxes than is spent teaching kids. As a long term primary supply teacher I have been through many schools in measures. You wouldn't wish that on your enemy and all it creates is knackered teachers and stressed kids. The standards of education don't change, but some excessively fancy way of marking or planning will have been created to keep some do gooder in a job so all is well.

Try not to think about it all. It's all bollocks.
If your kid's smart then they'll be fine anyway. If your kid's not so smart they'd be ****ed in just about any school, failing or not.

If your kid's smart then they'll be fine anyway

Luckily we are in this position.

And it's as much about what you do at home as parents. The school are only a part of the education, it seems a lot of people forget that. My sons school is in special measures (he's in yr 6) and it's made no difference. We think it's a good school, he's flying, so all's good. Loads of outside school experiences, coaching on the right attitude to learn and she'll be fine op...

Whats your and your daughters experience of the school? Reason i ask is my son and daughter's school had an Ofsted that resulted in it being put on special measures; we were all stunned but actually we realised our kids loved their school and were doing well there, as were most of their classmates so, once over the initial shock/worry, it was soon business as usual

its the same failing teachers and management team, in probably the same buildings with a nice new sign outside and a new school slogan, but spelt in latin

Don't worry, give it six months and most of them would have left anyway.
To be replaced by younger cheaper inexperienced ones that frankly have no idea how to deal with kids *

*Or is that just my sons school since it turned into an academy

1: She's in year 5 - her teachers in yr 5 and yr 6 will be under the most pressure as the school's improvement will largely be judged on the next couple of year's Yr 6 exam results. Within reason, be as nice as you can to them - even if you don't think they're very good - they're likely doing 60+ hour weeks with physical and mental health suffering and the ones that care may be inexperienced or have done badly under inspection but will be fighting for their jobs for the next 6 months

You can be nice to them, because...

2: There's very little evidence that even inadequate schools damage the life chances of children with a lot of social capital out side of school (books at home, parents who involve them in conversations about the world and include them in aspects of daily life e.g. shopping, being exposed to people who are different, being encouraged to develop essential life skills such as speaking in front of others, being encouraged to take up hobbies, etc)

2.1: Likewise, there is little evidence that even an Ofsted rated 'Good' or 'Outstanding' school will do significantly affect the life chances of children without the above described social capital. This phenomenon can be seen in the working class kids now entering university in higher numbers due to an improvement in academic grades in poorer social groups but being/feeling alienated by the confidence, entitlement and networking of the traditional university demographic.

2.2: You might see an increase in homework! It is pure box-ticking as there is little evidence that worksheet based homework is effective. Reading and real-world projects are different. It is up to you whether you play along to help the teachers who will be being asked to produce homework (and mark it) or to prevent your child from getting in trouble...

3: The chances are the school isn't as bad as it looks and that the best schools are not as good as they look. An Ofsted inspection is a performance that a school prepares for, knowing it is due. I have taught in a school that received a 'Requires Improvement' (the grade above inadequate) and one which received an Outstanding grade. (And subsequently quit teaching because relentless preparation for inspections wore me out). My partner also taught in another which received Outstanding. My perception was that the school which received the lower grade was actually better in terms of overall 'pulling out all the stops' to help the children and more thoughtful, bespoke and detailed planning. However, it had a more challenging demographic and Ofsted demand to see significant 'progress' within a single lesson and well as good Yr 6 results, which wasn't always possible. An Ofsted-tastic lesson is not necessarily a good lesson - it involves more resources and preparation than are reasonable and is often a stand-alone 'Wow' lesson, not a meaningful, but maybe more low-key, part of a longer project that builds upon previous learning and feeds into the next.

4: Obviously, despite the above, there are some real hallmarks of true inadequacy where health and safety and safeguarding are concerned. Unfortunately my experience is that these areas can actually get worse as the school focuses heavily on academic improvement and teachers prioritise planning and assessment. Teachers are will be retained or gotten rid of on the basis of their teaching, planning and assessment and unless something glaringly serious happens, wellbeing can be ignored to an extent.

We have no worries as far as our kids are concerned, but in the last couple of years some of the issues the report raises have been filtering through from what we've heard and seen. The report is really slating about how these have not been addressed.

Agree school is only part of a child's education. No surprise that behaviour in the school is an issue when you see the behaviour of the kids waiting to go in the morning, with or without parents.

Edit - it's not academic problems.

Having been through the entire process from school to Ofsted to SM, to Academy, to new build (albeit in a secondary) I have some observations:
1. Ofsted inspectors as just as prone to human failings as teachers - don't assume it's the teachers that aren't up to scratch.
2. Were you already unhappy with the school? Were you talking to your daughter and her teachers and following her progress?
3. The head won't be smug, as it's very unlikely that they'll be the head in the Academy - it's likely to be steered by another force (not the local authority) and the new bosses know who oversaw the previous 'failure'. Expect a new head, a new uniform and some change of teaching personnel.
4. Now that they are in SM, the decent teachers will fight, from pride and sense of injustice, to do better, while others will leave or become sick.
You probably won't be able to move her to another school, so show the school your support - consider becoming a governor and/or attend and contribute to meetings/consultation.
Do not blindly trust the opinions of Ofsted's scattergun approach to educational improvement.

I loved teaching (mostly), but once 'my' new academy got to Good/Outstanding, I left the profession.

MissT would totally agree with everything sb88 and mattscam says. She works in a school in an area designatated as "deprived". I'll leave it to your imagination as to the demographic. On her first Ofsted she received and excellent grading, her early years dept received the same and the school was upgraded to outstanding. On a recent "flash" inspection the school was to be downgraded. However the way the inspection was conducted cause lots of distress and a complaint was lodged with the inspectorate. Another inspection was carried out by senior inspectors and the status quo was established, only just apparently!!!! As matts alluded to, it was all about "box ticking" and the way the newly introduced system had been interpreted by the schools management. The HT is due to retire, something which cannot come fast enough apparently!!!!!
You could get to the point where you move your child every year if you were to know which teacher your child was to get the next year.
MissT had 2 poor/bad teachers, 1 in primary and the worst in secondary. He's was an English teacher, a poet and writer who caused 3yrs worth of issues and her grades to crash.

Speaking as an outside service provider to a 'beyond mainstream' (i.e. special educational needs/school excluded) school, O are a mixed bunch; many of the assessors are retired headmasters or similar and have a very good opinion of of well provided alternative provision and home education.

That said . . .

The culture of introspective fear and 'cover your own back' type blame that an impending or suspected inspection propagates is in no way healthy. Not healthy amongst staff and definitely not healthy for students.

One cannot deny the fear of a political agenda.

sb88 makes many pertinent points.

[url= https://www.tes.com/news/school-news/ofsted-watch/anger-and-incredulity-over-ofsted-inspector-charge-two-academies ]Ofsted inspector[/url]

This was the guy that placed my former school in special measures. Report was absolutely damning and I personally didn't recognise the school, staff or students the report described.

There was a time when more schools were going into Special Measures than they had HMI to support them. But, if you make the posts so small, no one is going to ever score a goal.

For me, after special measures, nothing really changed apart from an increase in intense scrutiny. Like any industry, some people are better at their job than others but what really stood out were the six excellent teachers from one department that left. Only two of them remained in the profession despite the brilliant (unpaid) holidays. All the others got other jobs. Revolving door of staff. Only losers were the kids.

This thread is very mumsnet in grammatical style.

Requires improvement.

OFSTED will make regular monitoring inspections to see if the school is heading in the right direction, and the organisation behind the academy will probably run their own inspections several times during this period
You might also see changes in the school's leadership team (staff and governors)
There will be a full OFSTED, but this might not be for a couple of years

OP, be very very vigilant.

I was recently appointed as an Assistant Head in a school that had just been placed into Special Measures. Once you start turning over stones, you find all manner of chaos.

If teaching is inadequate, then your daughter may very well not be getting a decent level of provision. It may be that, day to day she has no complaints because her teacher is "nice" or whatever, but he/she may not be challenging her, covering subject matter in sufficient depth, or teaching the required skills.

If Leadership and Management are inadequate, then you can bet that there is a lack of accountability for staff, leading to poor tracking of students, tired curriculum and resources, poor assessment and acceptance of low standards in the classroom.

Inadequate schools get away with it because kids and parents generally do not know a good school from a bad one; they just accept the provision they receive and assume it's normal.

As a start, you can ask for your daughter's books, go through them with her, look at what she's been learning (not "doing", learning), and the quality of the marking. Has the teacher set targets for improvement, and has your daughter then met that target further on in her book?

Literacy and numeracy would be a good place to start. Go to a remaindered bookshop and get an English and a Maths workbook appropriate to her school year. Work through it with her. Can she do most of what's in there?

Are there high standards of presentation in her work and in her classroom? Does she get to use a variety of engaging learning strategies?

Don't assume, as some posters have done, that Ofsted must have "got it wrong" or something and the school is fine.

Inadequate schools lead to inadequate outcomes for students. I would be ensuring my child wasn't part of this 🙂

I was recently appointed as an Assistant Head in a school

You can tell 😆

I went to a shit school with a lot of shit teachers, with a shit head ( 😆 ). There were a couple of decent teachers, but we were mostly taught to pass exams and tick boxes.
By today's standards it would have been deemed inadequate.
I did alright, as did a good number of my classmates.
I would say that school probably provided about 30% of my education. The rest came from the library, late night BBC Two, friends and family and a few experiments involving fireworks ( 😳 ).

Systems will always fail you. Those who rely on them fail with them.

I went to a shit school

Said almost every kid ever

Picolax thread will be similar to what is happening right now at the school.
All the Senior Leadership Team are very likely to be replaced, the Head certainly. School's are now a business with a quantifiable product with direct and swift consequences for declining results. My comparison of changing times is how compliance now rules finance and provides a very nice career for a peer.(He has the personal financial acumen of a goat, bloody good chap though:-)

Give your daughter a hug, ask about her day and how you can support her at school. Rest will all fall in place IMO.

You can tell

Yeah yeah. 🙂

Failing schools fail their students. Honestly. It's terrible to see and difficult to turn round.

What doesn't help is the attitude that anyone who cares about standards in education must just be a box-ticking square.

What doesn't help is the attitude that anyone who cares about standards in education must just be a box-ticking square.

The problem is most SLT just cover their own arses and try and feed the issues down in combination with failing to tackle the shit teachers head on but bring out another policy for the whole school that draws time away from the good teachers teaching good lessons. The shit ones ignore the new policy anyway! All set against a back drop of lack of funds to give the teachers the resources to do well and the only way to get round this is to give the teachers more tasks that take time away from teaching.

Not in my school.

hebdencyclist - Member
Not in my school.

Also depends on your role in school and which side of the management border you find yourself. Having been on both sides myself, perceptions of policies and their implementation depend heavily on whether you're doing or being done to...

Hebdencyclist talks sense. There are some coasting schools and some where teaching is nearly impossible because the teachers spend more time sorting out disruptive pupils than teaching. Both my two urchins went to a "Good" local school, and I believe that provided the school can get a nationally average set of results, with a few kids getting stellar results then you can trust that the teaching (content) is there. I know some schools where less than 30% get 5A-C and where A and A* are virtually unheard of. Schools like this I would not send my children to, but your local comprehensive is probably better than you think. Look at the GCSE results and provided they get some kids to A and A* then trust that the teaching quality is good. It's a hard job being a teacher and I am in awe of those that can take a class of 30 teach to each the content they need.

Not in my school.

Said every member of SLT ever 😆

The problem is most SLT just cover their own arses and try and feed the issues down in combination with failing to tackle the shit teachers head on but bring out another policy for the whole school that draws time away from the good teachers teaching good lessons. The shit ones ignore the new policy anyway! All set against a back drop of lack of funds

Not a problem confined to schools!

Thanks for the input and different perspectives. Our two are bright enough to do well whatever happens, but having previously failed to be elected as governer, this has got me thinking what I can do to help the school move forward from this.

Hebdencyclist has a point but it must be said that many nrew initiatives serve no purpose. Its as silly as many schools banning red ink. The almost universal answer I get about that is that kids don't care a toss about the colour. They have no time to read the marking that the teacher has sweated blood over because they are not allowed to say "well done" . Kids want a pat on the back, not some question asking about improvements or a bloody challenge. They want to be heard reading to their teacher individually, not be part of a class guided reading session where they get a couple of minutes a week unless they are dead thick in which case all fairness goes out of the window. Sadly the big O don't want that as it can't be categorised or evaluated. A school can fail because its kids are not making the correct amount of progress according to what ever levels of achievement are trendy. There will be bugger all consideration of little Johnny being 5 minutes late back from his lunch because he falls asleep in the dinner hall or that his sister ever does her homework because mum is too busy with 4 kids in a b& b with dad in jail.
Just ignore it all OP. Be a good parent, listen to the kids read, support them with homework rather than send them to school with half a page of Biro scribble, do your beat on novelty non uniform days and turn up when ever invited to school. Worth more than some inspector s, how ever well meant, opinion.

If teaching is inadequate, then your daughter may very well not be getting a decent level of provision. It may be that, day to day she has no complaints because her teacher is "nice" or whatever, but he/she may not be challenging her, covering subject matter in sufficient depth, or teaching the required skills.

Cannot help but find this a little patronising. Would help if those at the chalkface knew what it was Ofsted, and thus SLT, wanted to see. Usually the latest fad. Last time I checked there was no specific criteria for an 'outstanding' lesson. Judged wholistically and usually based on data. Correct?

Just for balance, seen plenty of 'outstanding' (whatever the heck that actually means) teachers in schools in special measures. There is a chance your child also has a fantastic teacher. For now.

Cannot help but find this a little patronising. Would help if those at the chalkface knew what it was Ofsted, and thus SLT, wanted to see. Usually the latest fad. Last time I checked there was no specific criteria for an 'outstanding' lesson. Judged wholistically and usually based on data. Correct?

No. Not anywhere near correct.

The Ofsted criteria are publically available and a click away, so you could have checked before you posted. It would have taken you five minutes.

If you are this poorly informed, then I hope you are not a teacher.

Last time I checked there was no specific criteria for an 'outstanding' lesson

Last time I was inspected the inspector told me the lesson lacked "buzz". I asked what that meant and he couldnt answer. He later said he liked the way they all worked together when they got stuck and then said the lesson lacked challenge! I showed him there results from the first AS module (when they had a different teacher, I had taken them on 3 weeks previously) where they almost all got U's and the feedback from the last homework which showed some serious flaws in their understanding which is what we were working on. He didnt care.
All he seemed to be focussed on was that results were crap so teaching must be poor even though I'd only been at the school 3 weeks, they arrive with an agenda and set out to prove it. This is fine but makes me wonder why we have inspections of lessons they could just look at the data.

The Ofsted criteria are publically available

Indeed but you try asking an inspector what an outstandi g lesson looks like.

? Ofsted does not award a grade for the quality of teaching or outcomes in the individual lessons visited. It does not grade individual lessons. It does not expect schools to use the Ofsted evaluation schedule to grade teaching or individual lessons.

Do you mean this . . .

No. Not anywhere near correct.

Please say you've read it. If you are this poorly informed, then I hope you're not really on SLT . . .

As I have never really had to face the consequences of the inspectors in recent years being a supply teacher, I was able, when being inspected, to actually speak my mind. I asked one to tell me her opinion of my lesson during the following break time. I was told that more progress should have been made. When I asked her how I got a lot of guff about engaging the kids. Correct but useless . It told me nothing. I have asked several times how i was supposed to do certain things, be they planning, marking etc. After the reply I pointed out that that person had just told me to spend 3 hours + every night marking 10 year olds English book. Yeah right, your mate has just told me to spend over an hour on the Maths books and that's after I make the resources for the next lesson based on today's results. Sadly Ofsted just do not help when their suggestions are so fantastic. Of course check ups are needed but the system does as much damage as help as it requires education to conform to inspection requirements rather than whats needed.
life's like that I suppose.
What amused me was the response an inspector gave me when I asked why our figures for achievement of levels had to improve each year. I was told that I should be aiming high. When asked what I should do when we achieved 100% I was told to stop being awkward. When I pointed out that some years cohorts were just plain thicker (technical term that) than others I was told that this couldn't be taken in to consideration. I wasn't denied that some kids don't achieve as well as other but they were still expected to.
Just some of the reasons why faith is lacking somewhat.
I'm for snap inspections. The warning is when the ID is produced. No stress and surely every school like every institution is perfect all of the time. If books are not marked because there is no need then it won't matter. Silly little things would have to be ignored and a real picture would be given. Of course standards in some things would be lower because perfection doesn't happen every day but so what.
OP . The kids don't care apart from when their teachers get upset. I would take a blind bit of notice.

Just to clarify, I think/hope we all (teachers/SLT/ Ofsted) want the best for the children. Ofsted have made some changes and are, although you can never perfectly measure a school,moving in the right direction. Us versus them doesn't help.

I feel the point that the OP's child may not have adequate provision is patronising. There is no individual lesson criteria. Your child's teacher might read those bullet points in the 'good' or 'outstanding' overall judgment criteria and feel they are doing all of them. Doesn't necessarily mean the outcomes will be 'good' or 'outstanding'. Conversely, a school deemed 'good' or 'outstanding' overall could have staff failing to meet them. The inspection handbook is, in places, subjective.

I appreciate Hebden is offering advice but it's an interesting insight into SLT train of thought. I read it, rightly or wrongly, as guilty until proven innocent.

Hebden, do me a favour, give one class of yours two pieces of information to remember such as their target grade and the dates for the beginning and the end of WWII - day, month and year. Tell them every lesson for a week. Then, on the first lesson after the weekend, get them to write that information on a piece of paper. You confident they'll all remember it? What if some of them get it wrong? They don't complain about you. Are you too nice?

As I said, your child may well have fantastic provision. My child's primary school was in special measures. They came out the other side fine. There were a couple of policy changes and staff turnover was high. We always thought the school was good but knew Ofsted wouldn't.

I'm for snap inspections.

Me too. Come and see my normal lessons.

Interesting parents meeting tonight. Everyone said the right thing about "going forward", school was becoming an academy this summer anyway so it will just come forward a couple of months.

And the inspector has apparently been reprimanded following a complaint from a parent about the way the kids were interviewed. 😕

Just getting up to date with the whole education thing y as Funkmaster Jr will be starting in a couple of years. Reading this thread just has me thinking WTF has happened since I left school in the 90's?

Kids being interviewed, target grades. Is this at a primary or secondary school? I recall being told stories, having naps and drinking milk in primary school. Put your Lego and imagination away young man, you're one grade below what's expected!

Education is getting more bizarre.

We've had kids sit in on interviews for staff "pupil voice".

We've got identikit SMT because they've done the course and know lots of big words, which do have meanings, but I'm not sure that the dictionary meaning makes sense in the context.

I got graded down in an inspection for not having lesson aims/ success criteria or a plenary. I did the inspector arrived late and left early. When I said this I was told I should have gone over them again for the inspector "pretend they were a member of the class that was late". If they were a member of the class I'd have had words about wandering round the class and staring out the window.

"Oh I noticed that one pupil didn't answer any questions and didn't take any notes, she just sat and scribbled" yeah that'll be the lassie who's severely dyslexic and a selective mute who I support in my class because you support the reduction in classroom assistant's hours.

The two local primary schools were asked a few years ago if they wanted to become academy's, They said No, surprise inspection a few months later and unsurprisingly they went into special measures. They were taken over by an academy organisation who failed to get them out of special measures for years despite a huge turnover of staff (got rid of a lot of experienced teachers for "boil in the bag" NQT's). The Academy even brought over teachers from Australia (small outback schools apparently) and reports from the teaching assistants were they had no idea of how to manage large classes and were worse than the teachers they replaced. They are still there and still rubbish apparently.

We've had kids sit in on interviews for staff "pupil voice".

What age group is this? I need to get seriously up to date with things. It sounds mental

Secondary.

The head that thought it'd be a good idea has agreed with the council that his resignation would be a good thing and we all wish him well in his future career.

My lad and the student council had the chance to interview the prospective heads when the current guy was appointed. This was at primary school. My mate who was interviewing as a governor was surprised how good the kids were.

The Ofsted criteria are publically available and a click away, so you could have checked before you posted. It would have taken you five minutes.

I've been using those for years but. But that doesn't really answer the point

We received training from an OFSTED inspector on how to grade lessons. It was the obvious thing. We watched a video of a lesson applied the criteria and discussed our grades.

I asked the OFTED inspector how she was trained and how often they went through a Standardisation process to ensure that the grading was consistent. Standardisation is a compulsory part of any teacher involved in grading a students work for an external exam.

You will of course not be surprised that the answer is that she had never been trained to grade a lesson and had never done any standardisation.

The OFSTED do use a sort of moving target for inspections. So some years they have been really tough on differentiation other use development of literacy. This is probably OFSTEDs biggest weakness. They seem to allow the government to rattle off new priorities every year with no change in official policy.

"pupil voice".

That's another trendy OFSTED that seems to have come and gone