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re: the MX jersey, he has for years.
Why does James Cameron wear a motocross jersey literally everywhere?
I hate the sea and everything in it
What, even dolphins? No-one can hate dolphins.
This was its fourth trip to the titanic, although reportedly it had done 50 trips in total including others to similar depths. So your fatality rate is 1:50-1:4 depending on how you want to measure it.
Actually I just read through the Oceangate Wiki which makes interesting reading regarding the design and construction. It all says "28 persons visited the Titanic on the Titan in 2022, 21 of whom were "mission specialists", i.e., non-staff passengers. In total, OceanGate undertook six dives to Titanic in 2021 and seven in 2022".
That's a lot more than I thought and suggests about 50 or so individual trips suggesting a fatality rate of 10%.
Now back in the days of big "professional" Everest trips (or indeed 8000m peak trips) 10% was reckoned to be the ratio of fatalities to attempts, so roughly the same. Now in these days of commercial expeditions although we see headline news of huge loss of life the total number of fatalities (including those earlier expeditions) is about 310 out of a total number of ascents of over 11300. That's roughly 3% and research by University of Washington and University of California suggests a death rate since 1990 of about 1%.
I think some of the Everest stats counted fatalities against successful summits rather than attempts, which again made it look a lot worse than it was.
If you look at fatalities vs climbers above base camp, things looked a little different even in the 70s and 80s.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-47418215
I’m finding that one a little hard to believe.
Problem with that comparison is the 350 to 400 bar of pressure the material is under when used sub-surface at 4km depth, so while useful in forming a view it's not the whole story.
@trail_rat Thanks for that.
I suspect that there's some research money about to be spent on finding out about the effects of extreme pressure on CF and titanium bonded structures.
I suspect that there’s some research money about to be spent on finding out about the effects of extreme pressure on CF and titanium bonded structures.
OTOH there's plenty of experience with steel and Ti and when weight isn't necessarily an issue...
What, even dolphins? No-one can hate dolphins.
https://deepseanews.com/2013/02/10-reasons-why-dolphins-are-aholes/
CF and titanium bonded structures.
My money is on the bond between these two materials.
My money is on the bond between these two materials.
My money is on someone building a replica and testing it to destruction to find out what happened.
Even that may not explain this particular failure - wouldn't be surprised if there were multiple potential failure points.
if they found the two end caps - far apart as reported
doesnt that suggest the carbon crushed and expelled the end caps during the inrush ?
if they found the two end caps – far apart as reported
doesnt that suggest the carbon crushed and expelled the end caps during the inrush ?
Wouldn't that happen regardless of where the failure was? Either in the main CF section or at the bond?
It’s the gelcoat, or what ever the high tech equivalent is, that seals the CF.
Gelcoat is simply a coloured external finish to GRP and CF products.
It can be porous after a length of time leading to osmosis in boats but I read that they covered the CF with a ceramic coating of some sort..
its beyond me why anyone would want to go up Everest these days.
"Because it's there"
Beyond me how people can listen to Adele but hey, we're all different and that's good.
The porthole was an area of concern...
He said the window gets ‘squeezed’ as the craft gets down to 12,500 feet below the surface. If it is going to fail, the structure gives a ‘warning,’ he says in the video.
But Rush admits in the clip he had “broken some rules to make this.”
Asked what the window is made from, he says: “It’s acrylic - plexiglass.
“It is seven inches thick and weighs about 80lbs. When we go to the titanic it will squeeze in about three-quarters of an inch and just deforms.
“Acrylic is great because before it cracks or fails it starts to crackle so you get a huge warning if it’s about to fail.”
Some experts believe the craft may have suffered a catastrophic failure due to the pressure underwater - with the window being a possible area of concern.
What's the point of a warning at that depth? Oh its crackling followed by Instant death.
Iread this a couple of days ago...
The acrylic window and the rigidity sensors, what did he seriously think he could do between the warning signs and getting back to the surface four miles above him...
All his warning systems could do was tell him he was about to die.. Guy was seriously deluded...
it'd be a bit like rice crispies I guess... snap, crackle & pop. You'd probably have about half a second to think oh shit.
Asked what the window is made from, he says: “It’s acrylic – plexiglass.
“It is seven inches thick and weighs about 80lbs. When we go to the titanic it will squeeze in about three-quarters of an inch and just deforms.
So does this mean that even when you spend £250k to go to the bottom of the sea in this death trap the view will be shit because the tiny porthole is deformed and distorts the view?
Lots of know alls on this thread
FTFY 🤔
So does this mean that even when you spend £250k to go to the bottom of the sea in this death trap the view will be shit because the tiny porthole is deformed and distorts the view?
A colleague from work said today that the viewing is done from screens on the inside which are connected to remote cameras on the outside of the sub. So basically if that's true you may as well just sit on the transport ship above and send down an ROV with cameras!
So basically if that’s true you may as well just sit on the transport ship above and send down an ROV with cameras!
And that would of cost a lot more money and using that sub.
I did think wouldn't it be a lot less dangerous and also cheaper to create a sub which you don't actually send down to the bottom at all. Really it's just a glorified simulator but you don't tell the punters that
Put people in it, send it down 2m then on the screens and also through the porthole you just play vids of a previous mission.
Jolt the sub about a bit to simulate movent.
They did it on a much grander scale for the moon landings 😜 so can't be too hard at this small scale.
Wasn’t there a TV show where they convinced contestants that they were going into space by doing pretty much that?
Edit, yep:
Yeah, Space Cadets on C4? Watched a bit of it yesterday on Youtube, were people more gullible in those days?
There certainly was - Space Cadets
Aaand we're full circle, thanks for playing...
Haha hadn't read the whole thread. Can see the sim thing already done ages ago on P2 🤣
Has anyone checked on Joe Cocker lately??
Has anyone checked on Joe Cocker lately??
Heard he's playing Glastonbury later
OTOH there’s plenty of experience with steel and Ti and when weight isn’t necessarily an issue…
That DSV ‘Limiting Factor’a bit of a thing -
The defining feature of the Limiting Factor is the 90mm thick pressure hull. Having been machined to within 99.933% of true spherical form, it is testament to the precision engineering required to develop a certified, reusable, full ocean depth submersible.
It also rocks seats.
Has anyone checked on Joe Cocker lately??
Heard he’s playing Glastonbury later
You utter Know it all.
the fly tipped sofa has weighed in in the fail! dear god
Lefties sneer. But those brave souls on the submarine died in a cause - pushing out the frontiers of human knowledge - that's typically British and that fills me with pride
most of the sneering seems to be coming from your readership mate going by the comments!
pushing out the frontiers of human knowledge – that’s typically British and that fills me with pride
It might well be typically British but the submersible’s owner and pilot was American, and the expert on the Titanic, and who had done several previous dives to it, was French.
British involvement appears to have been restricted to handing over rather large amounts of money.
British involvement appears to have been restricted to handing over rather large amounts of money.
Familiar, that.
OTOH there’s plenty of experience with steel and Ti and when weight isn’t necessarily an issue…
Somewhat surprisingly weight is a massive issue on submarines.
Because it's fairly obviously got to float. But you've got to ballance that against making it as small as possible because force = pressure x area so the bigger it is the shallower it has to stay (or you need even more material). That's why they're all so crammed in. Space needs to be as efficient as possible. And by cramming everything in, you end up with something overall far more dense than a surface vessel, so everything needs to be lighter again.
It might well be typically British but the submersible’s owner and pilot was American, and the expert on the Titanic, and who had done several previous dives to it, was French.
I am frankly gobsmacked that with their previous experience Hamish Harding and Paul-Henry Nargeoulet would choose to go on this trip.
Lots of know-all’s on this thread
There’s lots of detailed information about the subject out there, from people who build these sort of structures; it’s really not difficult to find if you care to actually look.
Lots of know all’s on this thread
Some of us design equipment for submarines and subsea unmanned systems so yeah, there are some who know a bit on the subject.
Weight is less of an issue than you’d imagine for most large submarines. Indeed it has far more effect on inertia and control than it does on buoyancy. Most subs have substantial reserve buoyancy and ballast tanks and ballast weights are customised for each project, even when part of a production line.
Several projects I’ve worked on were substantially over predicted weight but functioned fine in all but the most extreme circumstances.
Also, substantial amounts of equipment are stored outside the pressure hull, so while they affect size and weight, they don’t alter the pressure hull sizing. Thrusters, sensors, o2 tanks, ballast tanks, storage, etc are all in free flood areas.
The conspiracy theories have started.
https://stewpeters.com/video/2023/06/titanic-cover-up-rothschild-funded-ocean-gate-sinks-sub-to-hide-truth-about-the-titanic/
(No, I haven't watched the video. Reading the introduction was enough)
"Did an iceberg really sink the Titanic?
Google Whistleblower Zach Vorhies is here to talk about the missing submarine and his alternative theory about what’s really going on.
When the media believes something is important and all have the exact same narrative that is a red flag the truth is being concealed.
The lost submarine operation was initially funded by the Rothschild dynasty.
Due to a new treaty citizens of the West will no longer be able to visit the Titanic wreckage site without a permit.
This submarine operation was able to obtain a permit with an experimental sub design while using a wireless video game controller.
Zach believes this tragedy will be used as justification to prevent anyone from visiting the Titanic wreckage.
Zach also believes the Titanic was not sunk by an iceberg but rather an explosion.
We know jet fuel doesn't melt steel beams.
Likewise, an iceberg cannot cut through a hardened steel hull."