Obesity in the UK

Can we please stop pretending that just because individual families can manage something it therefore must be easy for everyone in the World?

Very much this

Now now chaps – lets get this right. Your cooked meal in the evening is “dinner” Tea is “a drink with jam and bread”. Your midday meal is “lunch” As for supper – its a snack before bed

How are you supposed to be able to have a nutritious meal if you cannot even get the basics rights

What?!

Midday - Lunch
Evening - Tea
Supper - something people who think they're posh have

The naming convention depends on which is the larger surely?  A cooked meal in the middle of the day followed by a smaller meal in the evening is dinner and tea.  A smaller meal, maybe based around a sandwich, in the middle of the day followed by a larger cooked meal in the evening is lunch and dinner.

You know at school, there were dinner ladies, what time of day did they serve dinner at in your day TJ?

Midday - Lunch

Evening meal (in)  - Tea

Evening meal (out) - Dinner 

Evening meal (later than planned because; reasons) - Supper 

you wouldn’t be here talking down to the rest of us?

I didn't read @IdleJon post as patronizing, rather it read to me that he was just saying that it is possible to cook for more than one in a short space of time, rather than have to choose processed or unhealthier food choices. 

And meanwhile in my world, I couldn't give a hoot what you call it 😉 In fact, I think I actually mix it up - mid day - lunch or dinner, evening - dinner or tea

dinner ladies served lunch at lunchtime.    Weird isn't it

Simon - now you are just confused.  Lunch and tea?  good grief!

Reminds me of a lovely story about Mrs TJ before we were going out.  She as a brand new law student was paired with a second year student for mentoring and to pass expensive text books on.  This chap said to her one day.  "Fancy a Chinese meal?  I'll get some for dinner and bring it round".  MrsTJ waited for him from 12 till 2 and thought.  "I've been stood up" and went to the pub.  He poor chap turned up at 7 with a nice takeaway and thought he had been stood up.  🙂  On such chances lives turn.

Cheap and easy food tends to be rubbish

I think that this is key.  The word ‘easy’, especially.  Take a look at the statistics by age-range of how often we cook from scratch.   https://www.statista.com/statistics/1140383/frequency-of-cooking-from-scratch-by-age-group-uk/

Midday – Lunch<br style="box-sizing: border-box; --tw-translate-x: 0; --tw-translate-y: 0; --tw-rotate: 0; --tw-skew-x: 0; --tw-skew-y: 0; --tw-scale-x: 1; --tw-scale-y: 1; --tw-scroll-snap-strictness: proximity; --tw-ring-offset-width: 0px; --tw-ring-offset-color: #fff; --tw-ring-color: rgb(59 130 246 / 0.5); --tw-ring-offset-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-ring-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow-colored: 0 0 #0000; caret-color: #ffffff; color: #ffffff; font-family: Roboto, 'Helvetica Neue', Arial, 'Noto Sans', sans-serif, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, 'Segoe UI', 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol', 'Noto Color Emoji'; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0); -webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;" />Evening – Tea<br style="box-sizing: border-box; --tw-translate-x: 0; --tw-translate-y: 0; --tw-rotate: 0; --tw-skew-x: 0; --tw-skew-y: 0; --tw-scale-x: 1; --tw-scale-y: 1; --tw-scroll-snap-strictness: proximity; --tw-ring-offset-width: 0px; --tw-ring-offset-color: #fff; --tw-ring-color: rgb(59 130 246 / 0.5); --tw-ring-offset-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-ring-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow-colored: 0 0 #0000; caret-color: #ffffff; color: #ffffff; font-family: Roboto, 'Helvetica Neue', Arial, 'Noto Sans', sans-serif, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, 'Segoe UI', 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol', 'Noto Color Emoji'; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0); -webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;" />Supper – something people who think they’re posh have

Our neck of the woods (increasingly outdated) as a kid was

Midday - Dinner

5:30pm - Tea

Fish and Chips - ‘supper’

The word ’lunch’ was only used for ‘lunch box’ (in which was kept ‘me dinner’)

MisterP is correct, dinner is at no set time and is just the big meal of the day

I think it’s a pack of Skittles where the “family size” pack says it’s pretty healthy for fat and salt

They are all so shady with this crap. I've got some teabags that proudly proclaim how good they are at preventing heart disease*

*The small print on the back points out that the teabags don't have any salt in them, and a low salt diet can be helpful in avoiding certain heart conditions

I didn’t read @IdleJon post as patronizing, rather it read to me that he was just saying that it is possible to cook for more than one in a short space of time, rather than have to choose processed or unhealthier food choices.

OK.  I did.

As I do with anyone who feels that any aspect of child raising that they find easy means it is simply inconceivable that it isn't easy for everyone and therefore anyone who can't live up to this standard must have some sort of character deficiency.

I found getting our kids to sleep very easy.  Therefore I don't chime in with my experiences of getting my kids to go to sleep because it would come across as patronising.

My advice to anyone with kids is if you think any particular aspect of child raising is simple then you more likely than not have no useful advice to offer.

But yes, if your kids will eat anything then I'm sure it is very easy to prepare every meal from scratch without using too much time.

Okay. There's breakfast, "break" rhymes with "deck". As middle class kids we'd take the piss out of our working class dad for rhyming it with "steak". 

Then dinner, that the lunch ladies bring you at school. 

Then tea. This was at or before six bitd but has drifted to more like eight in our house. If we're eating out anywhere it becomes dinner. 

Supper is something other people have. 

Look chaps - the naming of meals goes:

First breakfast

Second breakfast

Elevensies

First lunch

Second lunch

Tea

Dinner

Supper

Eat like a hobbit!

And Tiffin?

Something altogether different according to "carry on up the Khyber"

I didn’t read @IdleJon post as patronizing, rather it read to me that he was just saying that it is possible to cook for more than one in a short space of time, rather than have to choose processed or unhealthier food choices.<br />OK.  I did.
As I do with anyone who feels that any aspect of child raising that they find easy means it is simply inconceivable that it isn’t easy for everyone and therefore anyone who can’t live up to this standard must have some sort of character deficiency.

It wasn’t meant to be a patronising look-at-me post, simply to point out that cooking is not difficult, but there are plenty of people who try to make it complicated. Sorry if it sounded different.

I don't make it complicated.  My kids make it complcated.

And they don't even have the common courtesy to make it complicated by having medical issues.  They just make it complicated by being awkward little shits.

And yes, it's no doubt a failure of parenting on my part (I tried starving them so I'm honestly out of ideas) so when someone who has little angels comes along and says, 'It's so easy for me, people who aren't like me must be deficient in some way' then yes, it comes across as patronising.

Agree, it does sound like a parenting failure but I can't add anything to that as I was useless as a parent and am still paying the price for it 29 years later...

Apparently when I was 4 I had a battle of wills with my mother over food.  "Sit there 'till its eaten"  I sat there for hours till well beyond bedtime.  🙂

Apparently when I was 4 I had a battle of wills with my mother over food.  “Sit there ’till its eaten”  I sat there for hours till well beyond bedtime.  🙂

Like I said, my son went three days (vomited and almost passed out in the middle of the shops).  I figured either I could cave or child services would make the problem someone else's.

And yes, it’s no doubt a failure of parenting on my part (I tried starving them so I’m honestly out of ideas)

My wife told me I wasn't allowed to starve them. Believe me, I tried. And I certainly haven't got a tribe of angels. <Patronising : who has/>  😀

But, don't take it personally, I know nothing about your tribe and am still not sure why you thought I was aiming it at your specific circumstances. It's a very simple conversation. Somebody said 'People can't cook properly unless one of the household (specifically wife!) is at home all day to shop and cook' (I believe 'for hours' may have been used). Several of us said, 'No, it's easy and quick to produce nutritious food.'

Like I said, my son went three days (vomited and almost passed out in the middle of the shops).  I figured either I could cave or child services would make the problem someone else’s.

I guess the point is here - does that have anything at all to do with how long it takes to actually cook the meal?

I guess the point is here – does that have anything at all to do with how long it takes to actually cook the meal?

Yes.

Cooking from scratch every night was easy when it was just me and the missus.  It was still relatively easy when the first kid was born.

Where it became much more difficult was when the kids started going to nursery and suddenly they were introduced to whatever they were giving them (ham sandwiches mostly, as far as I can work out).

Suddenly the kids realised they didn't need to eat our homemade pasta sauce anymore.  They were getting enough bread and ham at nursery to survive and our freshly made food just wasn't a patch on the highly processed food products the nursery were giving them.

Now we have to either have a fight every single ****ing night to get the kids to take a few mouthfuls of our food or we can just make something (highly processed) that they will eat without a fight and we can take them to whatever activity they have that evening.  Because it's easier to make one meal what do you think we all end up eating?

We asked the doctor if it was OK.  He said so long as the kids were eating something they would be fine.

We both work, that's why the kids went to nursery.  It's also why we don't have time to try to experiment, compromise, and do whatever else needs to be done to get the kids to eat our food.

Personally I'd prefer to just be a stay at home Dad but with the current costs of everything that's not really an option so we are pretty much stuck with this situation for now.

Grilled white fish, 2 veg and spuds.  20ish mins from opening the fridge to eating it

We steam all veg in microwave steamer now.  Same with rice.  Can’t afford to use the big cooker because of energy cost,  so just use that to brown things and then do the rest in microwave or slow cooker.

Am looking into microwave pressure cooker.  Small freezer was the best investment  as it’s easier to cook a meal for 8 and then freeze them.  4 meals for two sorted in about an hour,

There’s some evidence that most fat on larger folks is subcutaneous, and isn’t overly harmful, the real harm comes form the metabolic diseases caused by fat around the organs.

Sadly I'm genetically programmed for fat to gather round my organs first, get it from my mum. I can gain 4-5kg in weight without it showing at all in the usual places and that's despite being a little bit tubby to start with.

and I’ve got some self-control

in 10 minutes of scoffing (my record is 6 minutes for one of those bags…).

No, you really haven’t.

The scoffing was for a bet, which I won. My prize was another bag of Skittles and a pint!

At least we don't have the bags they have over in the US. They're 2kg each! Got to be careful though as my sister is going to Florida at the end of the month and she is guaranteed to bring me one back. That's 14,000 calories in one bag that's sold almost everywhere and the last one I saw said Family Share Size on it.

Because it’s easier to make one meal what do you think we all end up eating?

Of course it is. That doesn't change the fact that I can cook a decent evening meal in 30 minutes, and so can you and anyone else. You choose not to, for your own reasons, and then tell me I'm wrong when I say it's not difficult. 

They just make it complicated by being awkward little shits.

And yes, it’s no doubt a failure of parenting on my part (I tried starving them so I’m honestly out of ideas) so when someone who has little angels comes along and says, ‘It’s so easy for me, people who aren’t like me must be deficient in some way’ then yes, it comes across as patronising.

Entirely my distant memories. You start with "don't get into psychodrama with toddlers" and above all "don't let food be a battleground" . And then at some point you're going "be the monster and eat the broccoli tree, eat the tree! EAT THE TREE!!" before retiring a broken man and doing more fish fingers.

(We've always had a pretty good diet, tea involving a lot of chopping veg which I've always found time consuming but that pre-chopped stuff is just immoral. And then a bad diet also on top of that. Toblerones.)

Just read

Now we have to either have a fight every single **** night to get the kids to take a few mouthfuls of our food or we can just make something (highly processed) that they will eat without a fight

Which also rings a bell. All I can say is it didn't stay that way that long with ours. Just seemed it at the time. That said, don't look in teenagers' waste bins. For many reasons, empty family packs of donuts being the least of them.

You choose not to, for your own reasons, and then tell me I’m wrong when I say it’s not difficult.

What are you on about?

Yes, making one meal from scratch is fairly simple.  Making two completely separate meals with no overlap is hard.  So hard, in fact, it's a waste of time, energy, and probably food.

So yes, it's easy and simple for you.  However, your experiences can't simply be extrapolated to the rest of the population.

Which was my point.

Like I said, my son went three days (vomited and almost passed out in the middle of the shops). I figured either I could cave or child services would make the problem someone else’s.

I shouldn't have s****ed but I did. 🙂

I quite like a lot of the approaches in French kids don’t throw food, lots of questionable generalisations but some good ideas.

I do wonder if it was just me bringing our daughter up whether she would eat like she does and on reflection I don’t think she would. I’m thankful my wife is a proper, passionate foodie and Amber has been brought up to explore food in all its guises. I don’t think there is anything our daughter (10) wouldn’t try and very little she doesn’t like. It does take time and I doubt it’s easy for people who don’t love the chemistry of cooking.

Lots of Ambers friends are definitely not of the eat everything persuasion and Carol tried to encourage them otherwise, with varying degrees of success. Definitely some wins with presenting foods in different ways (see the book above) but also lots of failures, so not easy if slightly late to the game (or early?!?) even if you are a good chef / cook. 🙂 Amber always has eaten what we / other adults eat, she’s never had “kids” meals. We have friends who never fed their kids the food they eat, rather gave them crap from their early years, not unsurprisingly, those children won’t go near real food now.

Which was my point.

Yes but.

People aren't doing that, you are. Folks are just sharing their experiences, you're the one comparing yourself to them, not the other way around. 

We asked the doctor if it was OK.  He said so long as the kids were eating something they would be fine.

Yes I was told by my Mum she took me to the doctor and said "he will only eat syrup sandwiches" - that's Lyle's Golden Syrup. Doctor said "fine let him eat those then". I must have been pretty young as I don't recall that, just eating proper food all my life. Mind you I still like a big dollop of Golden Syrup on my porridge.

So yes, it’s easy and simple for you.  However, your experiences can’t simply be extrapolated to the rest of the population. Which was my point.

I read it more like -

me : cooking is easy!

you : stop attacking my parenting abilities. 

me : 🤔

If anyone is extrapolating, it’s you. I also know it’s utterly pointless arguing with you, so won’t engage anymore. 

What kicked all this off was when someone said, 'Both parents work now so it's more difficult to cook properly' to which you said, 'That's complete and utter bollock.  I cook for my entire family every night from scratch.  It's easy.'

And yes, provided you have the knowledge, the space, and the planning to be able to shop for a week then yes, chopping and heating is relatively easy (although still not as easy as pre-made meals).

However, this assumes you have the knowledge on how to cook, the space to store food (or the ability to go shopping every day), and a way of transporting a weeks worth of shopping at once or the time to wander round the shops every day wondering what to cook that night.

And that's before we even get into the part where the kids might refuse to eat anything that doesn't look like a chicken McNugget.

So no, I disagree with your assertation that the idea that having both parents working means it's more difficult to cook from scratch is 'complete and utter bollocks'.

Just because it's easy and quick for you doesn't mean it's easy and quick for everyone.

I disagree with your assertation that the idea that having both parents working means it’s more difficult to cook from scratch is ‘complete and utter bollocks’.

I can back you up on this. In nearly 20 years of marriage we’ve never both had full time jobs simultaneously. Because of food and kids.

My wife is a legend at putting together fresh meals twice a day with unprocessed foods, and preparing every weekend. Friday she goes to a specific fresh fruit and veg shop to buy locally grown produce, then another place to get all the staple foods. It takes ****ing ages and a lot of research and label reading over the years. Kids have always eaten the same meals as us and have never even tried fast food.

We chose to prioritise this over material gains from earning more, though we do recognise we’re fortunate to be able to afford this.

@reeksy you are not alone!

@reeksy you are not alone!

We're talking about me going down to an 80% position (or less) just so we're better able to cope with all the various demands of raising kids (what they are eating being just one part).

But yeah, this is very much a luxury that many families don't have the option of even thinking about.

We’re talking about me going down to an 80% position (or less) just so we’re better able to cope with all the various demands of raising kids (what they are eating being just one part).

The key word here is ‘just’

Hmmm, might have to get myself a wife.  They sounds alright.  Bored of cooking for myself every day.

I love cooking

reeksy - we don't have children (but have helped look after one from the age of 0-14). We too decided to have a slightly different kind of life. I went from working full time to part time. This enabled me to shop better, cook meals from scratch (which I was doing anyway as a full time worker). I had time to use independent shops and thus no food is wasted, meals are planned and budgeted for and I don't have to go into the large supermarkets to buy rubbish. I grow some fruit and veg too.
I'm not the best cook, but our meals are 'mostly' healthy and I have time to exercise (which I didn't before going part time). Many of my friends do this, where both or one of the couple is part time and has chosen a 'simpler' life. Amazingly one can save money doing this. I appreciate this kind of lifestyle is not for everyone and it would be hard if one is used to lots of luxuries and having a certain lifestyle.
Too many people trying to keep up with the Jones's having a certain lifestyle and working all the hours, but this ends up with them having an unhealthy life.

Too many people trying to keep up with the Jones’s having a certain lifestyle and working all the hours, but this ends up with them having an unhealthy life.

It's not always keeping up with the Jones's, rent and mortgages can be a huge outgoing even on quite modest properties these days.

Too many people trying to keep up with the Jones’s having a certain lifestyle and working all the hours, but this ends up with them having an unhealthy life.

And even more people on crappy wages where choosing to go from £20K a year down to £10K a year so they have time to go shopping and cook from scratch is not really an option is it.

And there's the crux of the issue, we're all great at making excuses. Bottom line is eating healthily takes a bit more effort and we all tend to the easier option of eating rubbish. Unless the individual wants to change they won't, there's too many easy excuses. One of the things that worked for us was the Gousto meals, probably more expensive than buying from a supermarket but it means we get 5 home cooked meals a week which are healthier and more varied than what we normally had. Cost though was offset by reduced takeaways, avoid one take away a fortnight and you've more than covered the delivery cost. Not a lot of help if you really are on the breadline but most people aren't. If you can afford takeaways and alcohol you can afford to swap to one of the meal delivery services and improve your diet.

eating healthily takes a bit more effort and we all tend to the easier option of eating rubbish. Unless the individual wants to change they won’t, there’s too many easy excuses. One of the things that worked for us was the Gousto meals,

Agree with all that bar the bit in bold. If wanting to change were enough there wouldn't be a problem. People tend to respond to their environment, which is increasingly obesogenic. Maybe they shouldn't but so what with should/shouldn't? They do.

The thing is to change the environment, as you did by putting Gousto meals into yours. No idea what they are but I assume this equates to healthy food more easily at hand? That's what's key.

(We've never really bought take-aways. Dunno why as I'm certainly lazy enough. I guess we do eat out a fair bit, relatively poshly but this still generally means lots more salt/fat/sugar than you'd have at home. It's the only time I get added salt and I find "seasoned to perfection" can just taste really salty to me. But hey, worse problems exist. )

Ah I remember the good old days when my mum and dad worked full time and mum still managed to put a meal on the table every day without the benefit of ready meals or processed foods, 'cos there were none.

Everyone had their job to do. I went up to the shops on my bike every Saturday to collect the bread, meat and greengrocery 'cos mum was up to her armpits in the weekly wash.

Ah I remember the good old days when my mum and dad worked full time and mum still managed to put a meal on the table every day without the benefit of ready meals or processed foods, ‘cos there were none.

The "cos there were none" being the key part. If they had a choice of crap meals for same cost but way less time buying and cooking them they probably would have chosen them. Just as they probably bought a washing machine as soon as they could rather than use the mangle or going down to the river and just as they probably got a car rather than bus/walk/cycle everywhere.

People take ease and convenience over most other things in their life and food manufacturers are offering it to them - whether healthy or not.