[Closed] Obama commutes Chelsea Manning's sentence

[img] https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRsr-dc4quA-nYd0tNVQ8K2SSzp1KSgPCuScV4yR8kUj4cZIcxS [/img]

Fair play, but he will still be remembered as an awful president.

No he won't.

He's seemingly done more in the last 8 days than in the last 8 years, curious stuff hey....

He's seemingly done more in the last 8 days than in the last 8 years, curious stuff hey....

Extreme scrutiny

Just in time

Mixed feelings about this. He broke the official secrets act, is 6 years in prison long enough for that ? I am not sure where she is going to live, where would be safe or have any sort of chance of a remotely normal life ?

Obama's done a lot of stuff after the election he would not have done before for fearing of damaging the Democrats.

Lifted from [url= https://twitter.com/L_K_Richards/status/821493492643938304 ]this tweet[/url]:
[b]
Obama: ?whistleblowrs

Manning: look war crime

Obama: [drones kids]

Liberals: FREE HER

Obama: OK FREE

[drones kids]

Liberals: YAY OBAMA
[/b]
Makes you wonder about the peace prize...

For all his last minute PR, Obama is still the 1st President in history to have constantly been at war throughout 2 terms in office...

Now imagine if Obama himself chose to blow the whistle...

Extreme scrutiny

Obama claimed in a speech (March 4 - 2007 in Selma, Alabama) that his father and mother decided they would have him (Obama Jr) - a mixed race child, because they were inspired by the protest movement in Selma Alabama, the Marches (3 marches that took place in 1965).

He was in fact born in 1961.

Trump will make Asanges problems go away, in grateful thanks for his assistance, and everyone will be happy

hmmmm.

Were people harmed by what she did? Perhaps whether some of those people were doing things that were strictly legal is perhaps another story again.

I don't think anyone on here would argue that she needed to serve 35 years, I think she's been suffering from mental illness for some time while she was in a very high security environment with access to many files, so there's probably better and more robust selection by the military now. Was she let down by the Military, probably. Should she ever have been in the position she found herself in? possibly not.

Reasonable outcome i reckon

Obama claimed in a speech (March 4 - 2007 in Selma, Alabama) that his father and mother decided they would have him (Obama Jr) - a mixed race child, because they were inspired by the protest movement in Selma Alabama, the Marches (3 marches that took place in 1965).

Sauce?

Fair play, but he will still be remembered as an awful president.

Well, apart from steering the USA fairly successfully through the worst financial crisis since the 1920s (one that was basically dumped in his lap as soon as he took office), and introducing the Affordable Care Act (I don't think we appreciate what an enormous deal that was/is), obvs.

... and overseeing the removal of Osama bin-Bagging...

Bad move. Raises all sorts of questions about the rule of law and sets a very dangerous precedent.

The wiki leaks thing with manning exposed a lot of uncomfortable things about the US and the sort of prick Assange is. Manning was the unfortunate pawn in the game. The stuff that him. And snowdon released was incredibly significant and in the light if it the UK still manages to pass more draconian laws on information gathering.
He is the political scapegoat for many who got caught behaving illegally.

For the hand he was dealt Obama did very well. The people heading into debt with no viable health care will probably agree.

Raises all sorts of questions about the rule of law and sets a very dangerous precedent.

uh-huh...

[i]In the United States, the pardon power for federal crimes is granted to the President of the United States under Article II, Section 2 of the United States Constitution which states that the President "shall have power to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States, except in cases of impeachment."[/i]

seems OK, I'm willing to bet money Obama had it checked out before hand though...

Oh, and let's not forget that he demonstrated that it is actually possible to act in high office with humility, grace and dignity.

Obama claimed in a speech (March 4 - 2007 in Selma, Alabama) that his father and mother decided they would have him (Obama Jr) - a mixed race child, because they were inspired by the protest movement in Selma Alabama, the Marches (3 marches that took place in 1965).

He was in fact born in 1961.

Sauce?

Far be it from me to be all factual and shit but...

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0703/04/le.02.html

I can't find a single part where he claims he was conceived as some sort of response to the marches. That said I've not READ the whole thing, just scan read it and searched for keywords.

I'm going to call... bullshit

On facebook all the particularly vile Republicans are still insisting on calling her Bradley and referring to her as he. 🙄

Sounds like a good thing to me. I'd say Obama's been the best president in my lifetime, and my American wife feels similar despite being hampered by the Senate. She thinks Libya and Syria let him down but I disagree.

Oh, and let's not forget that he demonstrated that it is actually possible to act in high office with humility, grace and dignity.

Devils advocate: The action's of a man brimming over with humility

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The Manning sentence was harsh in regards that she admitted guilt but didn't take a plea bargain, the military tribunal then handed down the full sentence available.
That's an rare occurrence to throw the book at someone admitting guilt and was a knee jerk reaction to the embarrassment faced by the military leadership from the exposure to the leaks. The conscientious choice to undertake the leaks and whistleblower norms weren't accounted for in the sentencing.
In my opinion the whistleblower shouldn't get a harsher sentence than the person(s) who committed the war crimes they exposed, but receiving some sentencing is fair.

Devils advocate: The action's of a man brimming over with humility

Even by STW's pedantic nitpicking standards, if you can't or don't understand the intentional humour with the "mic drop" then you probably shouldn't be allowed to use scissors without adult supervision

Devils advocate: The action's of a man brimming over with humility

That is indeed pretty devil's advocaty, if you take it in context of what he was doing at the time. And I should have added 'sense of humour' to my list.

TINAS -
noun: humility

[i]the quality of having a modest or low view of one's importance.[/i]

sense of humour

[i]a person's ability to appreciate humour.[/i]

Not mutually exclusive

spoon, some context perhaps?

the correspondent's dinner, an event that's supposed to be a light hearted get together where every one takes the gentle mikey out of each other, and Obama's last one, also a well known gesture of "I'm done here". Nowt to do with "Humility" really

Mixed feelings about this. He broke the official secrets act, is 6 years in prison long enough for that ?

[i]Six months[/i] is too long for an act that was, undoubtedly, performed in the public interest. Even if, ultimately, history decides that what she did was the wrong thing that doesn't mean that it wasn't done with the right intention in the first place.

What is it with some people's obsession with locking others up?

Also, there's no such thing as the Official Secrets Act in the USA and you shouldn't put a space before question marks.

Six months is too long for an act that was, undoubtedly, performed in the public interest.

So if someone with a rifle takes down Prez Trump on Friday, in the public interest, they should get 6 months?

That will be quite a defence.

What is it with some people's obsession with locking others up?

It's a well known punishment for most serious crimes; I'm surprised you aren't aware of it.

spawnofyorkshire - Member
TINAS -
noun: humility

the quality of having a modest or low view of one's importance.

sense of humour

a person's ability to appreciate humour.

Not mutually exclusive

From the CED;

[i][b]devil's advocate[/b]
noun [ C usually singular ] UK ? /?dev.?lz ?æd.v?.k?t/ US ? /?dev.?lz ?æd.v?.k?t/
?
someone who pretends, in an argument or discussion, to be against an idea or plan that a lot of people support, in order to make people discuss and consider it in more detail: I don't really believe all that - I was just playing devil's advocate.[/i]

[img] [/img]

you probably shouldn't be allowed to use scissors without adult supervision

TINAS
I'm fully aware I bit at that one, my sense of humour bypass was engaged 🙂

@nickc I was at a talk by Dame Manningham-Butler (ex MI5 Head) who said the number 1 lesson from the Manning case was "do not give so much access to so many people" to secret and sensitive material.

On Obama - Gallup did a poll, his approval ratings are mostly negative in terms of achievements. Yes he's charasmatic but that's not enough.

[img] [/img]

@nickc I was at a talk by Dame Manningham-Butler (ex MI5 Head) who said the number 1 lesson from the Manning case was "do not give so much access to so many people" to secret and sensitive material.

Gallup did a poll, his approval ratings are mostly negative in terms of achievements

I think if 2016 proved anything, asking the public what they think is not the most reliable measure of anything...

So if someone with a rifle takes down Prez Trump on Friday, in the public interest, they should get 6 months?

That's a facetious argument. Very few people would argue that the arbitrary execution of even the most odious politicians is a good idea.

It's a well known punishment for most serious crimes; I'm surprised you aren't aware of it.

I don't consider the leaking of information that doesn't put people in immediate jeopardy a serious crime.

And for what the leaks revealed, anyone got the results of the trials for those involved?

During the Iraq War, U.S. authorities failed to investigate hundreds of reports of abuse, torture, rape, and murder by Iraqi police and soldiers, according to thousands of field reports.
There were 109,032 “violent deaths” recorded in Iraq between 2004 and 2009, including 66,081 civilians. Leaked records from the Afghan War separately revealed coalition troops’ alleged role in killing at least 195 civilians in unreported incidents, one reportedly involving U.S. service members machine-gunning a bus, wounding or killing 15 passengers.
The U.S. Embassy in Paris advised Washington to start a military-style trade war against any European Union country that opposed genetically modified crops, with U.S. diplomats effectively working directly for GM companies such as Monsanto.
British and American officials colluded in a plan to mislead the British Parliament over a proposed ban on cluster bombs.
In Baghdad in 2007, a U.S. Army helicopter gunned down a group of civilians, including two Reuters news staff.
U.S. special operations forces were conducting offensive operations inside ****stan despite sustained public denials and statements to the contrary by U.S. officials.
A leaked diplomatic cable provided evidence that during an incident in 2006, U.S. troops in Iraq executed at least 10 Iraqi civilians, including a woman in her 70s and a 5-month-old, then called in an airstrike to destroy the evidence. The disclosure of this cable was later a significant factor in the Iraqi government’s refusal to grant U.S. troops immunity from prosecution beyond 2011, which led to U.S. troops withdrawing from the country.
A NATO coalition in Afghanistan was using an undisclosed “black” unit of special operations forces to hunt down targets for death or detention without trial. The unit was revealed to have had a kill-or-capture list featuring details of more than 2,000 senior figures from the Taliban and al-Qaida, but it had in some cases mistakenly killed men, women, children, and Afghan police officers.
The U.S. threatened the Italian government in an attempt to influence a court case involving the indictment of CIA agents over the kidnapping of an Egyptian cleric. Separately, U.S. officials were revealed to have pressured Spanish prosecutors to dissuade them from investigating U.S. torture allegations, secret “extraordinary rendition” flights, and the killing of a Spanish journalist by U.S. troops in Iraq.
In apparent violation of a 1946 U.N. convention, Washington initiated a spying campaign in 2009 that targeted the leadership of the U.N. by seeking to gather top officials’ private encryption keys, credit card details, and biometric data.

the number 1 lesson from the Manning case was "do not give so much access to so many people" to secret and sensitive material.

I'm not surprised, the US military seems to have been particularly bad at screening...

Bradley Manning (as she was then) was suffering form mental health issues throughout his military career, that he was 1) placed in the position he was was clearly a 'cock up' b) that his sentence reflected a measure of embarrassment from the US Military was clear.

I'll not comment on your graph, assume that I've just posted one with different info, time will tell on Obama, I think he'll be added to the list of POTUS that were "not as good as some, but better than others..."

On Obama - Gallup did a poll, his approval ratings are mostly negative in terms of achievements. Yes he's charasmatic but that's not enough.

That's just opinion. It's not actually measuring anything.

Jambalaya you missed out the bit that mentions his approval rating of 68% overall, which is higher than Bush or Clinton. Outgoing leaders rarely have high approval ratings as the good ones can never achieve everything they want and the bad ones, well you know plenty about bad presidents......

And significantly higher than the new bloke/pervert/sex offender

In apparent violation of a 1946 U.N. convention, Washington initiated a spying campaign in 2009 that targeted the leadership of the U.N. by seeking to gather top officials’ private encryption keys, credit card details, and biometric data.

In 2009 WTF, the UN has been a target for spying since it was setup, there is a reason it is based in the US and it isn't because it is easy to get to.

That's just opinion. It's not actually measuring anything.

Nothing else matters in politics 🙁

I'm slightly jealous of Trump, if I was starting a new job and the most people expected of me was to hopefully not start ww3 I'd be be pretty happy. Probably get a few box sets in and chill.

🙂 expectation management !

If he builds a fence/wall, makes the lines at customs even longer and slower, gets NATO countries to spend billions more on defence (inc buying US kit) and puts tariffs on Mexican car imports he will be a hero

he will be a hero

expectation management !

Anyway is the world better for knowing about war crimes?