[Closed] Noticed on my van the tyres are mud and snow tyres will I die...

they might be a bit more draggy and hence use a bit more fuel, but you won't die. It will cost you more to get new tyres then you would save in reduced petrol costs by fitting new tyres...

I've not bothered taking the snowproxes off my car this year, nothing wrong with winter tyres in summer- you lose a little grip, a little mpg (but trivial, if it's more than 1mpg on mine I'd be astonished), maybe a little lifespan. Some tyre manufacturers now say if you can only have one set of tyres, and you live somewhere that has a winter, you should use winter tyres all year. For mountain bikers especially a bit of mud grip can be handy

It's kind of a shame to waste them though- winters only work well in winter when they're fairly fresh and the sipes aren't worn etc.

phew !

thanks for replies 😀

I'm still on my winter tyres they give so much more grip year round anyway even if they wear quicker. It's worth having new winter tyres when it starts getting icy though they work best with 4-5mm tread. My fronts are below this now so I'm going to wear them down, swap to the summer set, then buy some new winters at the end of the year.

I ran winters all through the summer one year, they made the handling very squishy when warm but nobody died as a consequence.

Our Panda 4x4 came with them fitted as standard, so I doubt they will be a problem.

They are definitely softer in the way they ride, which must be down to the softer rubber. All tyres would be like winter tyres if manufacturers didn't harden them up with sulphur for hot conditions.

One of the car mags did a test to see what would happen if you left tyres on all year round, winter ones or summer ones and compared against changing them with the seasons. Changing with the seasons is the best but if you want to leave one kind on all year round the benefits that winter tyres bring in the winter outweigh the negatives that they bring leaving them on in the summer.

As above, they are fine, run mine all year round.

However, you should check they are rated for the van.
Look up your axle weights on the VIN plate, then read up about load ratings (and speed rating) and check they are suitable.

It's quite hard to find a correctly rated m&s tyre for my van and some will fit a 4x4 tyre to a heavier van.

However, you should check they are rated for the van.

they most certainly are van rated

We got the winter tyres taken off the work car last summer, it felt decidedly squirrelly when pushing on a bit, so I would tend to respectfully disagree with the 'more grip than summer tyres' hypothesis. However, for normal, non 'pushing on' type driving, I very much doubt that you'd notice much difference, except possibly in wear rates.

It will take you longer to stop than summer tyres, and your more likely to have an accident.

Same argument as people use for having winter tyres in winter

Its a camper - you'll presumably appreciate the 'mud' bit getting on and off site. Compound aside winter tyres have a more suitable tread pattern for soft and slippy surfaces

New motorbike tyres arrived today with an M+S mark. Can't say the idea of running in snow appeals to me, though!!

Rachel

FunkyDunc - Member

It will take you longer to stop than summer tyres, and your more likely to have an accident.

Same argument as people use for having winter tyres in winter

Except that it'll take you marginally longer to stop, in the best possible conditions (and still well within the margins considered safe and normal). Whereas with winter tyres in winter it'll take you massively less time to stop, or perhaps make it possible to stop at all, or go round the corner. And this in the worst conditions.

So yes it's the same argument, but all the actual considerations are different.

I didn't mean van rated, I meant the load rating. For instance, my van axle weight is 2240kg which means a tyre with a load rating of 112 is needed.

If you've just asked the tyre shop for M&S and they've fitted them they are probably fine, but if they were fitted by a previous owner you don't know. Its rife with T5's as people like to fit bling alloys from VW and Audi passenger cars, often resulting in both wheel and tyre being not up to the job.

M and s does not mean winter tires.

Most mildly agressive 4x4 tires regardless of compound are marked m and s their compound is wooden

We used to fit non winter m and s tires to our rwd transit as it was the only way it could pull its self off wet grass as conti van contacts were shite.

Oh and your only more likely to have an accident if you drive like a fud on winters in summer. Stop with the tail gating. The extra distance to stop is marginal compared to the thinkin distance

Then you can also consider the temperature most of the year when your commuting. Scotland theres about 3 months of the year when summers are the preferred tire for commuting to your 9-5

I run winter tyres on my T4 Westy all year round. Not noticed any degradation on braking and I doubt the van would get to a speed where it would make all that difference. Main advantage is not getting stuck in muddy camping fields. I'm still here.

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trail_rat - Member

M and s does not mean winter tires.

Well, yes it does- depending on who you ask it either means "mud and snow" or matsch und schnee- slush and snow. Pretty sure the latter's correct but the US seems determined. It's not interchangable with the flaky mountain but they both mean tyres suitable for winter conditions.

Usual confusion here. Many M+S tyres are not Winter tyres. They are NOT made of different compounds designed to perform in colder weather and/or lack the additional siping.

I'm waiting for Terry to tell us which three months the Winters will be inappropriate because this one sure as hell doesn't count 🙂

I said 3 months appropriate for summers.... Its been a cold 6 months of the year so far maybe july and august will be better.... Still on winters here on the "good" car...

Northwind,

My brand spanking new bf goodrich mud terrains are marked m and s ....

They are not a winter tire.

Yes they will keep traction under power but under braking the compound just doesnt keep grip on ice/hard snow for braking, its well documented that muds are horrendous on ice - but good in powder 🙂

Snowflake and mountain means the tire meets criteria.

M and s just means the tires designed to perform better in mud and snow , you can stick it on anything with a non normal tread that might give it better grip than a uni directional treaded tire - ie many eco tires or van contacts . There is no testing or criteria to put m and s on your tire

My T5 has 17" wheels and the only tyres available are M&S with the snowflake. So I have no choice, I haven't noticed the wear being particularly bad, 30000 miles so far...

trail_rat - Member

There is no testing or criteria to put m and s on your tire

There's no performance testing for M+S but there are design criteria. It's a poor standard I agree but it does mean that the tyre is designed for and rated by the manufacturer as a winter tyre.

Flaky mountain is designated as the "severe snow" criteria rather than "winter tyre" but tbh it's a weak standard too- it means the tyre has to outperform the ASTM standard tyre spec by only 10% on snow. People put too much faith in it, what makes the difference is tyre design and quality- you can have a very crap snowflake tyre.

(as you quickly find out, using different makes- a snowflake tyre can still perform badly on snow, and worse than an unmarked tyre, the uniroyals I used were way worse than my unmarked kumhos. I suspect that like with many standards, there's a lot of tyres out there that would pass the standard if the manufacturers paid the fee, but they just choose not to as the tyres aren't marketed for winter use. And because the snowflake actually puts some people off as they think "winter tyres are no good in summer")

"winter tyre" doesn't have a standard definition unfortunately.

It's no wonder there's so much confusion...

M+S symbol

“Snow tyre” means a tyre whose tread pattern, tread compound or structure are primarily designed to achieve in snow conditions a performance better than that of a normal tyre with regard to its ability to initiate or maintain vehicle motion.

"Snowflake-on-the-Mountain" symbol

The marking "Snowflake-on-the-Mountain" identifies winter tyres according to the tyre industry standard which is based on an American Snow tyre definition. These tyres provide high performance with regards to safety and control on snow, on icy road and in general at deep temperatures.

Continental recommendation

Even though M+S marked tyres are in some European countries regarded by law as winter tyres Continental recommends to use winter tyres with the "Snowflake-on-the-Mountain" on the sidewall and a tread depth of at least 4 mm in winterly conditions.

Aye, exactly- you can look up 5 different manufacturers and get 5 different definitions. But all basically the same [i]advice[/i], just lots of bad terminology.

Like "in wintery conditions use snowflake" is what Nokian say iirc, but they're Finnish, so wintery conditions means you're being chased by ice giants down a glacier. For us, it means mostly disappointing slush and being stuck behind a BMW.

There's no performance testing for M+S but there are design criteria

The design 'criteria' is limited to pattern appearance and not compound or carcass structure hence many many tires can theoretically be marked M+S.

I work for a tyre manufacturer and up until not so long ago 100% of our van tyres were marked M+S whether they were summer or winter types.

I’ve got Goodyear Cargo Vectors on my T5 steel 'winter' wheels which have sipes in the tread, M&S & snowflake symbols but seem a very hard compound, sound like a wheel bearing has gone and are utter mince when faced with real snow on a mountain. On previous vehicles I’ve run ‘proper’ Michelin Pilot snow tyres and very rarely had to use chains in snow although they did wear faster if left on all year round.