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Second month with heating on using Tado thermostats. Last year's consumption was 95kWh/day in November, this year we're averaging 35/day. Of course weather has been warmer this year, so not a fair comparison, but the greatest consumption in one day has been 55kWh, so I reckon we're on the right track. Boiler flow temp also turned down, but will need to wait for colder weather to see if it is high enough.
Is that not how TRVs work?
That's what I thought @tjagain, however, there is literally a point where they are fully off, or fully on. I thought if it was set at, let's say 2, there would still be some heat to that rad as required by the valve so you had some control. There appears to be no temp control at all using the 1 - 6 scale. It's either on - full heat or off - no heat at all. As an example, the radiator feels no different in one bedroom regardless of whether the TRV is set at 3 or 6. Turn it just below the 3 mark and the rad is cold and gets no heat at all.
What you describe is a valve.
A thermostatic valve in your case at 3 and not heating simply means at your setting of 3 the room temperature keeps the rad shut off.
If the room dips below that temperature the valve opens and rad gets hot.
Thats how they work - the number on the dial is the level at which it turns on and off.
The higher the number the higher the temp at which the TRV turns the rad off
Yes if you set it to 3 and the room is at the temperature that corresponds to 4 then it'll be off, and the rad will be cold. But if the room is at 2 then it'll come on and the rad will be hot.
I put my trv to the frost setting in the spare room but it's just full on unless I turn off completely. The room was toasty so it seems to me it's not working and is either full on or full off same as Fazzini's problem there is no sensitivity with it turning on and off depending on room temp. Also the trv in my bedroom is permanently on even in the off position. Any ideas on a DIY fix?
They can fail, one of ours has. You can replace the control part of it which is a simple DIY fix apparently. Never done it though. And none of the ones in B&Q look like mine.
Most are pretty crude. Material that expands/contracts with temperature, that presses on a sprung valve that controls flow to the radiator.
Valves can stick open or closed, if they aren’t fitted well the thermostatic part won’t move the valve. Etc etc.
Usually pretty easy to remove the trv heads and check if the piston actuating the valve is stuck or not - I've resurrected some old ones previously.
I cracked and put it on Tuesday when the inside temp hit 12C at midday.
On the upside, 16-17C now feels pretty toasty as we're in the good habit of getting up and putting jumpers on.
That’s what I thought @tjagain, however, there is literally a point where they are fully off, or fully on. I thought if it was set at, let’s say 2, there would still be some heat to that rad as required by the valve so you had some control. There appears to be no temp control at all using the 1 – 6 scale. It’s either on – full heat or off – no heat at all. As an example, the radiator feels no different in one bedroom regardless of whether the TRV is set at 3 or 6. Turn it just below the 3 mark and the rad is cold and gets no heat at all.
Yup, that's how they're supposed to work, they're not generally intended to be modulating valves. That would require some clever tinkering and setting them up, whereas what you have is a little bimetalic spring and a preload adjuster.
It would also be noisy trying to let a small amount of water flow through the valve.
Switched on the heater just now to 17c again. Took a hot shower and wear jumpers etc to maintain warm.
Don't you take 30 minute showers? Cut them in half and run the heating.
Still not on but cheating by running a wood burner in the lounge for 4 hrs or so each evening. Looking into putting 2 pc fans in the connecting walls to even the heat flow, there's a hell of a diffence im room temperature that makes the rest of the flat feel really cold.
Gotta be quiet and low voltage so will scour RS this afternoon
Confused by the suggestion a wood burner isn't heating.
Anyhow, had ours on for 3 weeks now since the Wiser system was installed. Enjoying the graphs, last couple of days showing highest usage so far.
Oooh graphs. Sounds like that could be as useful as the ability to turn rooms down.
Don't forget turning rooms up.
That would require some clever tinkering and setting them up, whereas what you have is a little bimetalic spring and a preload adjuster.
I thought they contained a wax cartridge that does the expanding and contracting? They do modulate to some extent as it changes gradually. Turning the adjuster moves things up and down so it has more or less distance to move to press the pin the same amount.
It would also be noisy trying to let a small amount of water flow through the valve.
This is often the case; they whistle as they start turning off.
Got both woodburner and heating going (albeit at a reduced boiler temp) and I've used about a year's worth of wood so far already. Current gas and elec usage is tracking at about £10 per day for both.
Octopus want to put our monthly payment up to £480. A few years ago I remember paying about £40/month. I’m going to phone them and tell them no, because that’s unaffordable. It’s finally made the wife, who is renowned for not listening and always being right, realise it’s quite a problem.
So need to get more insulation in the loft. Plan is to go with whatever foam board I get on top of the existing boards and reboard over that. Then a load of regular fluff stuff round the sides to bulk that out. Question is how thin is too thin for the new boards? Considering they will be flat on the foam board would 9mm be ok? Thinking of the weight for both me hulking it around and also the added weight the roof needs to support. 18mm in whatever wood based material you go for is chuffing heavy!
Octopus want to put our monthly payment up to £480.
Pardon, what, eh!!
Bulb put ours up to £190 earlier this year but then we gradually got into loads of credit so I knocked it down to £145. Got the bill today to say we've used £109 worth of energy over the last month (that's gas & electric). Then we got the winter payment so we're still in far too much credit. At least we'll stay warm.
3 bed detached, 12 radiators.
I generally leave my thermostat at 16c, I'll boost it up to 19c for a few hours here and there.
Allegedly my living room is 16.5c at the moment, so the boiler is dormant and I feel plenty warm enough. But I am wearing slippers, merino long-johns under my trakky bottoms, and a fleece top with a regualr cotton t-shrt underneath.
Outside is 8c, inside is 12c, I've got twins in nursey 3.5 days a week so mine won't be going on unless they're here this winter, I'd not noticed it until this week but it's got chilly.
I'm usually up and out in the morning, in the office all day then straight to gym after work so I'm not usually in till gone 8, and by that time after warm food and a tea it hardly seems worth having it on during the week, but...
Any recommendations for relatively inexpensive (<£50) quilted blankets etc. for sofa use?
Am a bit weary of the house feeling damp if it's not heated for extended periods but a couple of windows (bedroom being one) are left on the latch most days.
I have next week off so part of that will be making the house a bit warmer where I can but there's already 300mm insulation in the loft and the easy stuff done.
The trouble is that I’ve got storage heaters on Economy 7 so it heats the house overnight meaning I’m hot in the morning and it’s cool in the afternoon
I had this in one place. The heat just leaked out. If I had them now I'd be considering some kind of blanket or insulation to try and keep more heat in until I needed it.
I thought they contained a wax cartridge that does the expanding and contracting? They do modulate to some extent as it changes gradually. Turning the adjuster moves things up and down so it has more or less distance to move to press the pin the same amount.
I though they worked on a spring, but either way they're not intended to modulate, the system wouldn't respond correctly anyway as you'd have proportional control which tends to never quite reach the set point so it would take ages to actually warm the room up. Whereas what you want is the room to warm up quickly, then it all stays fairly constant as the rate you can add (or lose) heat is relatively small.
It's not like the burner on a boiler where modulating a valve has an immediate impact on the boiler temperature.
Had to switch the heating on yesterday, the heat from cooking just didn’t cut it anymore. The trouble is that I’ve got storage heaters on Economy 7 so it heats the house overnight meaning I’m hot in the morning and it’s cool in the afternoon, makes choosing a setting really hard to as there’s a 24hr delay. Cheap to run but very annoying.
Check the settings, most old radiators have an input (which sets the temp of the bricks), and an output (which lets the air flow over them.
You need to have the output dial closed all the time. This lets a small amount of heat leak out of the radiator all day but it stays warm-ish. Then you open the output in the evening to let the last of the heat out if needed.
Also, see if you can get an economy 5+1 tariff or similar. Same idea as economy 7, but you get an extra hour in the afternoon to warm up the storage heaters, water cylinder etc.
You need to have the output dial closed all the time. This lets a small amount of heat leak out of the radiator all day but it stays warm-ish. Then you open the output in the evening to let the last of the heat out if needed.
That's what I had - the output dial operated a flap (mechanically!) that let air flow through. But yeah by 11.30pm there was nothing left, it'd all leaked out.
Octopus want to put our monthly payment up to £480.
Same here. Though in fairness it's a suggestion and no attempt to actually do it yet. It's also based on a lot of assumptions from last winter that may not be the same this, though I do like their new forecast tool that shows how they came to it.........I just hope it's not correct!!
It's working well for me today. The bloody boiler has gone on the Fritz!
For anyone tinkering with water temps in the house make sure the hot tank temp is set below the boiler temp. Otherwise when you have the water come on it runs for the whole period set rather than using the tank stat to turn it off.
Edit: please don't ask how I know!
I had closed my bedroom window but opened it again last night as I was too warm. No heating yet.
Do the people in 12C houses just never wash their clothes? Ours take days to dry even with the heating on given it's rained too much to ever refresh the air in the house. I put the duvet cover outside in the sun all day yesterday and it had barely dried at all.
The conservatory still gets warm if there's any sunshine so thats great for drying clothes. Usuall give them 24h in there and they'll be ironing dry in all but Dec/Jan/Feb. Then just bring them into the house to dry the last bit.
Does mean being organised as doing 2+ loads in a day makes it too humid so nothing dries.
Do the people in 12C houses just never wash their clothes? Ours take days to dry even with the heating on given it’s rained too much to ever refresh the air in the house. I put the duvet cover outside in the sun all day yesterday and it had barely dried at all.
I tend to hang it out, but it does need to be out all day, and some stuff like jeans need to be finished off inside, but I'm wary of doing stuff indide due to the additional humitdity, but if its been hung outside litteraly all day, most of the moisture has gone.
Bear in mind if its cold out, clothes can still feel damp even when they are not really, due to the low air temps.
13 degrees in the living room. Can't justify CH for one person as the rest of the Fazzini mob are away. Oil rad it is then. 😬
Do the people in 12C houses just never wash their clothes?
I use a tumble dryer. Costs about 75p a week. Cycling clothes get a fast spin and then hung over an airer. They seem to dry just fine
Today (Saturday) in the mountain city where I live is max 25c, min 16c.
Wednesday is forecasting for max 4c min -2c.
Government news says to watch out for a shock 10-12c drop. But this is an 18c drop!!!!!! They know it is, but probably aren't allowed to give bad news.
My patio doors to my balcony don't latch as they're the wrong size for the wall opening. They rattle in the wind. How the owner (I'm a tenant) accepted this from the builders I do not know. I might as well be living in a council garage (with better lighting!)
Electric blanket goes on the bed and all the hot water bottles to be found asap. Both my portable oil radiators are out and tested working. My winter suitcase came down but it disappointed me, even if the dog sat on my clothes and gave me a plaintive look. Even he knows what's coming!
The locals are saying that, after a freaky couple of hot summers, we are now going to get at least one painful winter.
what was a nah not until november, has become a **** it, it's nearly december, even in an 80/90's detached, even after a night shift, without the heating on to take the edge off, i was waking up cold in the day which is ****ing miserable when you need to go back to work,
Gas central heating hasn't been used yet. Other forms of heating have been used including chocolate biscuits and tea.
15 degrees currently in the lounge. Feels fine. When it gets colder I'll wear more layers.
Heating is unlikely to be used. It wasn't last year bar a few weeks in November before I got the bill.
Plus the rebate will pay for 2/3's of my yearly leccy bill. Cheers Liz!
Just lit my fire (my only heating) for the second time this winter. It is quite cold here now though, first proper frost.
Was 12 deg inside when I came in, around freezing outside. 14deg after only two logs.
1880s flat, Scottish Borders.
.
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My wood is free so not finances holding me back, genuinely not felt the need, apart from a couple nights where I was tempted but too much faff half an hour before bedtime, and bed is cosy, 13.5tog down duvet, just sleeping kn a t shirt. The flats below and both sides insulate me, my loft is very well insulated. Windows are a bit drafty but I've got some new seals ready to fit.
Not so sure this is relevant to this thread, but when I bought my first house and was paying the mortgage on my own in Aberystyth 10 years ago, I never once put the heating on. The house got as low as 6c inside in winter at one point. Sleeping with a hat and gloves on. I saved money on heating and electricy bills (to spend on bikes), but it was absolutely f'ing miserable. I still have the bikes though.
Can we split this thread into the people who genuinely can’t afford to run the heating this year (for whom I have unlimited sympathy) and the masochists?
If ventilation is poor in the house (ie it’s not a leaky old building) and you’re not running a dehumidifier I think you’ll end up regretting it when you’re bleaching the mould off the walls and ceiling in three months.
Interesting point about damp^.
We've been using our heating as little as possible and the house is starting to rot! 🙁
Just some numbers for comparisons
3 bed house (late 90's, well insulated), 4 adults (4 cats). There is someone WFH 4 of the 5 days (we alternate).
Electric Consumption, on average last 3 months around 12KWh a day (2 gaming PC's on for 6 hours a day which use about 4 KWh between them - yes a third of my bill). That's slightly increased this month to 16KWh a day - additional drying clothes with dehumidifier, lighting and some heat for the conservatory (where I work). Bill for electric has been £130pm, but will rise to £160 for November, or just over £5 a day.
Gas consumption was very low over the summer (gas hob), September £40, October (new Prices £60 at 570 KWh for month) - so around 20 KWh a day in October. We've had the heating on, and last couple of weeks it's been on during the day as we're all been ill (Covid) - that's increased to 36 KWh or £3.80 a day (estimated just over £100 for November)
Combined £260. That will probably climb to £300pm Dec to Feb. My DD's £320pm and we're about £700 in credit.
September's combined bill was £180 but that was the older rates.
Our useage is 'opposite' to the 'average' Gas is LOW but electricity is HIGH based on the Energy Trust figures.
Interesting Fossy ta assume you posted here from my closed thread 🙂 I will check consumption in KWh
Led's throughout but two big tvs and kids laptops / phones etc. Plus tumble on every other day etc. Living life as normal ish for the time being but Nov has been fairly mild so far
Lots of things I can and should do like turning off things at the plug, replacing blown double glazing (prob will have the biggest impact for sure)
My original other post below for ref:
So I know there are so so many variables but would like to see if I can benchmark my November gas / elec usage against others with similar ish variable (if that is at all possible!) to see if its on the low / normal / high side before I go throwing money at improving things for marginal gains
3 bed terrace, 2 kids, 2 cats
Standard 1978 ex council build – brick downstairs (cavity), cladding upstairs, crap double glazed windows (probably all blown)
15kW greenstar condension boiler set to flow of 70 (return about 65 deg C so not condensing right now but any Lower House feels cold)
Heating on 21 deg. TRV set to 3 in each bedroom (downstairs apart from living room set to 2)
Bill for 34 days (end Oct to end Nov)
Elec £86
Gas £132
Works out at £6.50 ish per day
Heating on from 5.30am to 7.30am then on again at 3pm to about 9.30pm (water heats same time… Old gravity fed system)
So does that seem alot / to be expected or low?
Hard to compare previous years usage as change of supplier means all historic data lost
We were looking at about £120/mo for gas with the heating on 18-ish all day. I've now knocked it down to 16 during the day. With my boiler flow turned down that was taking some time to heat back up again, several hours, so it was somewhat pointless. But it seems to be working better with a slightly higher flow temp. I need the pump on low to get a temperature differential of about 18C across the boiler, which is good because it's nearly silent on low. Nearly 15 years of living here and listening to the pump rumble away, and it was actually worse for the heating anyway!
The other downside is that the hallway where the stat is is warming up before the living room has had a chance to do so. I had originally thought it would be worth fitting smart TRVs to the living room but now I'm not so sure. Because my pump isn't smart enough to alter its flow and my boiler cannot modulate much, if I were to turn off some of the rooms I'd run the risk of making the boiler less efficient and losing any saving.