[Closed] Not putting the clocks back. Is this a good idea ?

Put us onto CET. Job done.

No more watch twiddling on the yearly Alps trip.

On the roads more will die in scotland if we go to CET.

It suggested that those living in central England and southern Scotland benefited most from the experiment. However, northern Scotland saw a net increase in the number of people killed or seriously injured.

TandemJeremy - Member
On the roads more will die in northern scotland if we go to CET.

Typical north scottish-centric view there TJ 😉 Surely not changing the clocks to suit 4 people and some sheep instead of the majority of the British population is just perverse?

We need to synchronise with Europe! This isn't about changing the clocks by 1 hour in the winter, but summer too.

The benefits would be most noticeable in the spring and autumn when it would be lighter into the evenings. We'd all be more active and less depressed. The roads would be a lot safer too.

There are compelling studies suggesting the economy would be very much better off too.

If Scotland doesn't like it, Scotland can have it's own time zone. Seeing as they have special tax priviliges which we all have to pay for, I don't see how they can moan. The issue is only felt in the far north of that country, where the population is negligible, so for the sake of the 65 million others in the country, they should find a way round the issue.

Seeing as they have special tax priviliges which we all have to pay for, I don't see how they can moan

Well I'd be interested to now what tax priviligesI have. Can you enlighten me?

Back on topic, it's not just the issues in Winter that are concerning in the North, Summer wouldn't be all that much fun either. Daylight until almost midnight doesn't really appeal either and I'm sure that many parents would agree. That being said a separate time zone would certainly go some way to solving the problem, but calling it Central European Time (which is after all what it is) would probably mean that it'd never happen

I looked up the sunrise / set times for central Scotland:

[b][i]Date Sunrise Sunset Length of day[/i]

22 Mar 2010 06:10 18:30 12h20m03s
21 Jun 2010 04:26 22:03 17h36m33s
20 Sep 2010 06:54 19:18 12h23m47s
21 Dec 2010 08:42 15:40 6h57m31s

27 Mar 2010 05:57 18:41 12h43m25s
[i]hours shift because clocks change forward 1 hour[/i]
28 Mar 2010 06:55 19:43 12h48m05s

30 Oct 2010 08:15 17:37 9h22m03s
[i]hours shift because clocks change backward 1 hour[/i]
31 Oct 2010 07:17 16:35 9h17m44s[/b]

It seems we should at least shift to summer time much earlier, like the end of February instead of the end of March.

TBH the whole clock shifting thing I find patronising and old fashioned. The clocks should stay one one time all year, and schools, business, and workers should shift their patterns to suit. Why do we need the government to tell us what time to start?

As has been said, farmers get up when it is light and stop working when it gets dark. They don't need to be told.

Schools should shift their opening times if they think it will be an improvement.

Having everyone make their own minds up would mean less peak hour traffic.

We don't all need to be on 9-5 year round.

I am lucky I can choose the hours I work so I can decide for myself what time I want to wake.

I deeply resent being plunged into winter in the space of one day. The days should naturaly close down and naturaly open out with the seasons. I can cope with that....anything else is bad for you and should not be allowed.

GMT all year for me please. I hate dark mornings. I don't mind dark evenings at all.

And for the lad who was complaining about not getting to run / ride in the evening Mr Trout and Mr Spokecycles are your friends I hear (other lights are available)

yes, but from the point of view of the general public, not everyone can/wants to faff around with lights. you can't play football / cricket / frisbee / etc relying on torches.

why do we need the sun to rise at 4am in the summer?

question;

how many people benefit from the sun rising at 4am? - 3 hours before almost everyone is awake.

Luminous frisbees, cricket is a summer game anyway and most social football I see is under lights or indoors all year.

Next.

I'm in the middle (Cumbria) and absolutely hate it when the clocks change in winter. I like being able to come home from work on time one day a week and go out with the family & dog for a little walk. Changing the clocks means that there are a couple of extra months each year that I can't do this.

Saying that I struggle to get my ar*e out of bed in the morning so that might have something to do with it.

I think the solution is that everyone should just be allowed to work an hour less in Winter.

Why don't we just keep GMT and make everyone get up earlier/later?

well, i hope everyone in scotland is happy now*.

on friday i went to work at 7.30 in the light, and came home at 5 in the light, i had time for a short run.

tomorrow i will go to work at 7.30 in the light, and come home at 5 in the dark.

brilliant. how exactly is this making best use of the available daylight?

(*please note the sarcasm)

being safer going to work / school in the light for longer.

The answer is to give Scotland it's independance so they can have whatever time zone they want .If we cut them adrift it will save our English Government a fortune in health care as they all live on Tennants Super ,Irn Bru and battered Mars bars. 😀

Last night I had to adjust 10 clocks, the central heating controller, room thermostat, microwave, oven, and washing machine. Today I've done the car, still haven't reset my watches; at least the PC, TV, Freeview box, one of the clocks and my phone take care of it themselves. Can anybody come up with a sensible reason why we have to go through this apart from the fact that we've always done it (within our lifetimes)? Why not stay on one time all the time? Other countries manage it.

Incidentally, good report here showing how staying on BST in winter would save lives and money in Scotland - [url= http://www.psi.org.uk/pdf/2010/SCOTLAND_DAYLIGHT_FINAL_v4.pdf ]link[/url] -

During the 1968–71 experiment with BST, there were 11% fewer fatalities and serious injuries in England and Wales than would have been expected under the status quo. The overall reduction in Scotland was significantly greater at 17%, in spite of a small increase in casualties in the morning in northern Scotland

Edit: Damn, just found 3 more phone handsets that need to be changed to GMT. 👿

TBH - it doesn't bother me on way or t'other. However, there seem to be at least two options for change:

Adopt BST all year...

Adopt BST in winter and BST+1 in summer (i.e. integrate with CET).

The latter would still involve clock twiddling twice a year.

Spongebob - Member

If Scotland doesn't like it, Scotland can have it's own time zone. [b]Seeing as they have special tax priviliges[/b] which we all have to pay for, I don't see how they can moan.

Oh aye - what are they then?

European countries have summertime so you would still need to change clocks. Going to CET would be horrible in Scotland - I remember what it was like.

Teh road safty aregument does not stack up -

The Department for Transport's initial analysis of road casualty data during the experiment suggested more people were injured in the darker mornings, but fewer people were injured in the lighter afternoons.

It estimated a net reduction of 2,700 people killed or seriously injured during the first two years of the experiment.

However, it was recognised at the time that the calculations did not take into account drink-driving legislation passed in 1967, so the Department for Transport eventually re-analysed the data and factored that in. In 1989, [b]it found the data agreed broadly with the earlier estimates. [/b]

In other words no reduction in casualties.

It seems we should at least shift to summer time much earlier, like the end of February instead of the end of March.

I was just about to type the same thing. We shift to winter time just under 2 months before the darkest day (ie 31st october to 21st december).

But we switch back over 3 months later ie the of march.

It should be the end of February as stated.

To be honest we could just shift the clocks for December and January and that should just about allow enough sunlight in the morning in most of the north.

That way we'd only have 2 months GMT

Id go for mid november to mid feb for winter time as a compromise 3 months at gmt - that should avoid the not light till 10 am nonsense

In 1989, it found the data agreed broadly with the earlier estimates.

In other words no reduction in casualties

On the other hand in 1998 [url= http://www.trl.co.uk/online_store/reports_publications/trl_reports/cat_road_user_safety/report_a_new_assessment_of_the_likely_effects_on_road_accidents_of_adopting_sdst.htm ]it re-evaluated the data[/url] and concluded that "The estimates of the reduction in the number of deaths per year range between 104 and 138, depending upon the assumptions made. ". Probably shows that you can prove anything with statistics.

well, i hope everyone in scotland is happy now*.
on friday i went to work at 7.30 in the light, and came home at 5 in the light, i had time for a short run.
tomorrow i will go to work at 7.30 in the light, and come home at 5 in the dark.
brilliant. how exactly is this making best use of the available daylight?
(*please note the sarcasm)

Can you not run in the dark?

My bet is this thread will rapidly fall off the front page as people just get on with it...

[url= http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~jsm28/british-time/ ]interesting article on the subject[/url]

The clocks argument always seems less london centric and more overly uk focused. From some of the arguments in the media you'd think we were the most northerly point in europe and no one else has to contend with the daylight hours we have.

am bo - Member

Can you not run in the dark?

that's actually a good question.

i've only got mediocre eye-sight, and i struggle to see enough detail offroad to avoid twisting my ankle - even with a torch.

head torches don't cast visible shadows - which i find vital for picking out details like rocks etc. A brighter / better head torch wouldn't really help...

so, it'll be 5 months before I can go for another run after work. moving to Euro time would reduce this to about 3 months. which may not sound much but, it's 40 more days a year when i can go for a run after work. multiply that by 65million people and we could make a measurable improvement to the nation's health.

how many people won't do any exercise outside in the evenings next week because it's dark too early?

if it's one percent of the population, that's still 650,000 people.

you tell me another way to get so many people exercising more or less for free.

i've only got mediocre eye-sight, and i struggle to see enough detail offroad to avoid twisting my ankle - even with a torch.

Compromise then...run on road.

i'd rather poke my eyes out with a fork.

sorry, i'm being flippant. yes, you're probably right, and i probably will. but my point stands.

lighter evenings would encourage the good fat people of this largely lazy nation to get off it's collective fat ar53 for half an hour.

lighter evenings would encourage the good fat people of this largely lazy nation to get off it's collective fat ar53 for half an hour.

Nah, it just means they will be able to see the menu clearer at the KFC drive through.

i din't say it would [i]make[/i] them, merely [i]encourage[/i].

and if it only works on a single-figure-percentage of the population, then it's still a massive number of people.

use me as an example; next week running after work will be less fun, and i might not bother. last week i had fewer excuses and i did.

Run before work?

that would mean getting up before 7.

not gonna happen.

i understand that some people have to get up early for a long commute, or to deal with kids, dogs etc. but people who get up early to do exercise are weird.

and i say that as someone hopelessly addicted to exercise.

ahwiles - Member
that would mean getting up earlier.

not gonna happen.

Wow...your the veritable Goldilocks of exercise opportunities.

sorry, i'm being childish.

i did early mornings for 3 years. never again - if i have a choice...

So the answer is change the clocks so everyone has to get up earlier?

I'm not buying it.

Dear god people, get a grip. It's light at 4am in the summer, and at the same time it's light until 11-12 at night, do you want to go to bed in the light?

At the end of the day it's the switching around that causes most of the confusion. I wonder what number of people are injured due to having forgotten to change the clocks and rushing to work late?

Just stick with one time and accept that its entirely NATURAL that the daylight hours vary with the seasons - we're divorced from nature enough as it is. If it bothers you that much, get a job where you can work flexi-time and get up/go to bed with the sun.

Thank you coffeeking some sense at last. I am all for sticking to one time all year round - GMT:-)

Coffeeking & Gordimhor +1

Haven't read all of the above but for me would rather stick to changing. This morning I actually saw a little bit of daylight on the way to work, and will have it (hopefully) for a few more weeks. It means a lot. Without it, the only daylight I get to see at all until next April (apart from through tinted quadruple-glazed windows on the other side of the office) is at weekends. Can't be healthy.

Time is not a fixed concept (unlike lunchtime) except in relation to how others have fixed it, if you know what I mean.

The farmer is a classic example - the cows will want milked at the same time whatever the clocks say.

So why don't we just all work an 8-4 pattern in winter and a 9-5 in spring and autumn and 10-6 in summer ? Shops open and close earlier/later.

Don't move the clocks, move our work patterns.

Hels, what job do you do that involves 8 hours a day?! Can I have one?

Don't move the clocks, move our work patterns.

Not necessarily as easy as it looks, amongst other things if you rely on public transport you'll find all the trains go at the wrong times so timetables would have to change according to the time of year. I don't actually see what the need is to have a different time in summer, choose a time that works for winter and stick with it all year.

Just found 3 cameras that need their time changing. At this rate I may get all the clocks right by spring in time to change them back again...

Edit: Make that 4 cameras - forgot about my helmet cam. 👿

ononeorange - actually our core hours are 7.24 per day, so with 30 mins for lunch its more like 08.05 - 16.00. I thought that was quite normal in this country ? Seems cushy to me too !

And sorry but we aren't hiring.