[Closed] Not having children

you go on about how awesome having kids is and what a wonderful experience it is and how everyone should just do it and then you are surprised when people react negaively?

And I did that where exactly?

There's several examples of it in this thread, including from you.

Eh? Where was that exactly? I basically suggested that people shouldn't pre-judge it based on pre-conceptions as they're more than likely wrong. Is that preaching?

Mark, that's an excellent post and a really good perspective from someone with a different viewpoint.

I've never seen any parents preaching to people who don't have kids.

Have you actually read this thread?! Also, I've had it twice in the last two days at work. Both unsolicited, both directly critical of my life choices (I hardly even know these people!), and both massively patronising.

Should parents really not be able to speak openly about their experiences for fear of offending non-breeders..?

Yes absolutely, but as soon as you start telling us that the personal life decision we're making is wrong, with absolutely no knowledge about us, then don't be suprised if we baulk slightly.

Saying how awesome it is and you don't know what you're missing and you just don't understand - patronising and irritating.

Apply the same to bikes, football, snowboarding, photography.

Bores will be bores.

Our last holiday was September 2009.

I miss skiing holidays. I miss weekends - and sometimes weeks - away cycling. I miss taking several foreign holidays a year (that was an exceptional and unusual year). I miss those impromptu trips out to dinner or a concert. However I don't miss them nearly as much as I used to. This is because - finally - I've grown to realise that the path I've chosen of parenthood simply can't be the path I trod before my first child was born. Sure, those paths may cross from time to time but I'm genuinely enjoying - rather than enduring - the new adventure.

My kids are 4 and 6. This is an ACE age. Our holidays are inexpensive trips in the UK, visiting castles and playing on beaches, having walks and pub lunches. They're the holidays I enjoyed as a kid and I enjoy them just as much as a parent.

There are some blooming tough times parenting and I wouldn't wish what we've been through on anyone, but currently I'm enjoying an absolutely delightful stage. My vague point is that whatever dark times parenthood has brought upon you, just keep the faith 🙂

dahz

So whatever your pre-conceptions, ignore them because they're probably wrong.

That's where.

I basically suggested that people shouldn't pre-judge it based on pre-conceptions as they're more than likely wrong. Is that preaching?

Preach: To advocate, especially to urge acceptance of or compliance with.

Yes, it's preaching.

Apply the same to bikes, football, snowboarding, photography.

Bores will be bores.

Aye, but I don't think I've ever heard anyone say 'you don't understand' or 'you don't know what you're missing' in relation to anything other than parenting. I will admit to being guilty of boring on about snowboarding sometimes though. 🙂

I basically suggested that people shouldn't pre-judge it based on pre-conceptions as they're more than likely wrong. Is that preaching?

You said, 'you're wrong, because my life experience suggests x'. That the only reason people wouldn't want kids is because of their misguided preconceptions. Can you really not see how that is patronising/preachy?

Just reading some of this lot just confirms one of the main issues with parenthood. It really, really does make you into one right soppy bastard! 😉

Saying how awesome it is - fine (in moderation).

Saying how awesome it is and you don't know what you're missing and you just don't understand - patronising and irritating.

Nailed it.

It really, really does make you into one right soppy bastard!

so true 😆

Aye, but I don't think I've ever heard anyone say 'you don't understand' or 'you don't know what you're missing' in relation to anything other than parenting. I will admit to being guilty of boring on about snowboarding sometimes though.

Y'know, neither have I. I've heard lots of non-breeders mentioning it on STW though. I'm pretty pleased with the friends and acquaintances I have now. Lots of other folks' sound awful. 🙂

Have you actually read this thread?! Also, I've had it twice in the last two days at work.

I think you confuse 'preaching' with just 'talking'. I'd be interested in knowing exactly what your judgemental work colleagues said to you, as it sounds very strange to me, and not something I've ever come across.

Y'know, neither have I. I've heard lots of non-breeders mentioning it on STW though. I'm pretty pleased with the friends and acquaintances I have now. Lots of other folks' sound awful.

[semi-troll]
Most of my mates were great until they had kids - now they're dull and self-righteous. The worst part is they've lost all perspective so they don't even notice what they've become. 😉
[\semi-troll]

so, to summarise

non-breeders are an inferior unfulfilled sub-species and should be treated like a cute and house trained but rather irritating pet..?

Most of my mates were great until they had kids - now they're dull and self-righteous. The worst part is they've lost all perspective so they don't even notice what they've become.

this is the curse of parenting unfortunately.. the offspring steal all that it young and free and vibrant in your soul - it's their right to take it as theirs, and our duty to pass it on..

It must actually be quite horrific for the non-breeders to watch all their mates be taken one by one to have the life sucked out of them, wandering listlessly amongst their non-breeding friends, a husk of their former self..

like a real life horror movie - no wonder you've all got issues!

FWIW we DO notice Grum, it's just that in the parenting vortex no-one can hear us scream

so, to summarise
non-breeders are an inferior unfulfilled sub-species and should be treated like a cute and house trained but rather irritating pet..?

Yes.

so, to summarise
non-breeders are an inferior unfulfilled sub-species and should be treated like a tame but rather irritating pet..?

😆

Nailed it.

The worst part is they've lost all perspective so they don't even notice what they've become.

I feel for you. This didn't happen with any of ours and we were one of the last couples in our peer group to have a kid. Occasionally, I would think some of them were going on a bit, but I sucked it up as they were good friends, and part of being a friend is listening and being supportive sometimes. Not just withering on about what only I'm interested in.

EDIT: Ah, 🙂 just noticed your edit. Apply the same to mine.

You said, 'you're wrong, because my life experience suggests x'. That the only reason people wouldn't want kids is because of their misguided preconceptions. Can you really not see how that is patronising/preachy?

Well, what can I say, other than you have a remarkable ability to misunderstand or misread something?

For the record, my point, in simple terms, is that non-parents can't possibly know what it's like beforehand, and that any pre-conceptions they may have on it are probably wrong. I have absolutely no opinion on whether you should have kids, whether it's a good or bad thing for you, or whether it would make your life better or worse. That is for you to find out. Like I said, it's simply a leap of faith.

Can I get a refund on mine? Warranty return?

Binners, you have two girls, fancy a boy?

it sounds very strange to me, and not something I've ever come across.

I guess I made it up then. Either that or as you're not me, and you do have kids, it's highly unlikely someone would tell you that you should have kids.

I think you confuse 'preaching' with just 'talking'

Nope. Where talking ends and it becomes preaching isn't a defined line and it will be different for different listeners. For gonefishin and myself it appears that you've crossed that line into preaching, especially the comment in question. You don't think you have, which is fine, but might be useful to know how it comes across to others. Or it might not.

I have three boys, 8, 5 and 0.2 yrs. It is bloody hard work and takes over your life. But last night I stayed up late to fit some riser bars to number 1 son's new bike. This morning before I went to work we checked it out together and had a chat about bar width's and what grips he prefers while in our dressing gowns. We will be doing a bit of testing for fun at the weekend in the rain. Life doesn't get any better IMHO 🙂

Nah, no regrets, although it's made me reflect on my own childhood sometimes, I never knew my father, can't help pondering over that one sometimes.

So my all day epic ride this weekend was cancelled because:

1. Both my boys had an infestation of headlice that needed endless washing and combing out
2. My youngest then swallows a pound coin, several hours at A&E

Nah, no regrets.

Did you get your pound back?

For the record, my point, in simple terms, is that non-parents can't possibly know what it's like beforehand, and that any pre-conceptions they may have on it are probably wrong.

You could just as well say that parents couldn't possibly know what their lives would have been like if they hadn't had kids, and all their preconceptions about that are probably wrong. But no-one would bother saying that, because it's a bit unnecessary, patronising and presumptuous.

I don't think I've ever heard anyone say 'you don't understand' or 'you don't know what you're missing' in relation to anything other than parenting.

I don't like football, and I was told something similar by mates who are football fans. I realised that my opinions were perhaps prejudiced and I'd not really given it a chance in recent years so I said, "alright then, let's see." I went to watch a couple of local games; Accrington Stanley(*), and Blackburn Rovers when they were in their heyday. Having then discovered what I was missing, I confirmed that I'd been right all along.

I've also been told this in religion threads on this very forum (by Ro5ey and maybe others). Oh, and in a discussion on chiropractic; someone offered to pay for me to visit a back crack quack, but went suddenly quiet when I said "go on, then."

(* - who are they?)

My youngest then swallows a pound coin, several hours at A&E

Ha. I went to A&E for:

1. Knocked myself unconscious falling off a coal shed
2. slit my hand and leg wide open falling off a building.
3. Stuck a dried pea up my nostril that became stuck.
4. Broken wrists
5. Broken arms

All before I was even 10.

2. My youngest then swallows a pound coin, several hours at A&E

"How is he?"

"Oh, no change."

Ha. I went to A&E for:

1. Knocked myself unconscious falling off a coal shed
2. slit my hand and leg wide open falling off a building.
3. Stuck a dried pea up my nostril that became stuck.
4. Broken wrists
5. Broken arms

All before I was even 10.

I hope you chastised your parents at length for not taking you to the minor injuries unit.

Binners, you have two girls, fancy a boy?

No thanks. I look at people with lads and wonder how the hell they cope. The noise, the constant chaos, bordering on complete anarchy. Just the stupidity! Girls are just so much gentler and more civilised

Of course, come hormonal time, it'll be payback time, as my life becomes a misery, while people with lads watch their life get considerably easier

Just enjoying it while I can

Did you get your pound back?

@Cougar

"Exactly"

😉

1. Knocked myself unconscious falling off a coal shed
2. slit my hand and leg wide open falling off a building.
3. Stuck a dried pea up my nostril that became stuck.
4. Broken wrists
5. Broken arms

4 broken wrists and 5 broken arms..!?

Are you sure that you're Hora and not Shiva..?

[i]The government is cracking down on taking kids out of school (which I can understand), but not doing anything to help, like staggering the term dates around the country, like they do in France. [/i]

France has staggered term dates? When/Where as everything shuts in August.

4 broken wrists and 5 broken arms..!?

Are you sure that you're Hora and not Shiva..?

Coffee / keyboard.

You could just as well say that parents couldn't possibly know what their lives would have been like if they hadn't had kids, and all their preconceptions about that are probably wrong. But no-one would bother saying that, because it's a bit unnecessary, patronising and presumptuous.

So parents have never experienced life without kids? I can see a slight defect in that logic.

So parents have never experienced life without kids? I can see a slight defect in that logic.

That isn't what I said, fairly obviously.

I don't see much preaching.

I see people saying that you don't know what having kids is really like til you've had them (which is reasonable and true for a lot of things) and then also saying that for them, it's great.

I think the non-breeders are so used to being on the defensive (and entirely understandably) that they think they are being preached at, which may again be a reasonable assumption based on previous experience.

I don't think it's happening on this thread tho.

UrbanHiker - Member

anothergit - really? You're one of the very few to feel/admit that.

I think "admit" is the key word. Friends of mine regret theirs- or at least, they regret not waiting. But they've stopped telling people that because so many people respond as if they're axe murderers. Sure most people are glad they had kids but the social pressure is pretty major too. (she said it once at a toddler group- half the other mums agreed, then it devolved into open warfare and now there's 2 toddler groups)

They were nervous all the way through the pregnancy, and people kept saying "Once he arrives, everything will change" as if that was good news. Who's so unhappy that they want everything to change? If you are, why are you having kids?

Personally I can't be trusted with a goldfish let alone a human, but it's a moot point since I'm yet to trick a girl into liking me enough 😉

That isn't what I said, fairly obviously.

This is what you said:

You could just as well say that parents couldn't possibly know what their lives would have been like if they hadn't had kids, and all their preconceptions about that are probably wrong.

..and it's quite obviously ridiculous. I've spent the majority of my adult life sans-children and have a pretty good idea what it was like and how it would probably be now if I didn't.

Thread summary:
Some people have balanced views and accept others are different to them
Some people think kids should be bio-fuel
Some people think if you don't have kids you're missing out or you are fighting nature or just plain wrong
It is descending into the usual bollocks on stw

..and it's quite obviously ridiculous. I've spent the majority of my adult life sans-children and have a pretty good idea what it was like and how it would probably be now if I didn't.

You don't know exactly what your life would be like now if you hadn't had kids is what I said.

Again, can you really not see how this is a teensy bit patronising:

So whatever your pre-conceptions, ignore them because they're probably wrong.

Whilst I see the reason for your annoyance, he's still right.

I've spent the majority of my adult life sans-children and have a pretty good idea what it was like and how it would probably be now if I didn't.

I wouldn't be too sure of that. My life is significantly different now that I'm in my late 30s than it was when I was in my 20s despite the fact that I don't have kids.

hora - Member

fancy a boy?

Well, that's one way to reduce the chance of having kids.

Ok, going back to the original comment that caused so much upset (which was not mine by the way):

You have no idea the special relationship your missing.

Yes, this comes across as a tad preachy and patronising, and it's not something I would or have ever said to someone who doesn't have kids. However, as a basic statement of fact, and backed up by my own experiences, it's pretty much correct. The change that occurs is so fundamental that you can't possibly know what it's like until it happens, hence my advice that you should probably ignore any pre-conceptions. What this isn't however is any type of campaign to persuade you to have kids, certainly not on my or most other parents part anyway, so you should stop being so defensive about it.

Yes, this comes across as a tad preachy and patronising, and it's not something I would or have ever said to someone who doesn't have kids.

Well, except... you know... just then.

Mate of mine bought a people carrier 2 months before had his first in Jan this year.

No need.