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It wasn't mechanical failure therefore it must have been driver failure.
Except it was some kind of vehicular failure in that there was diesel on the road. Am I correct in assuming that you believe the driver is at fault for not anticipating a diesel spill?
Last thread not appearing - BUMP!
got bored reading the bickering but I would like to say that I really hope the petrolheads do their tyre testing well away from me and the ones I love. I'm sure you are nice enough people and think you are safe, but you sound like accidents waiting to happen to me.
Can I say cock too?
Cock!
I once broke a pair of 2 week old SIDs wiping out on a diesel slick..
Leant into the apex, thought "that smells like di..." and then hit the deck.
Bent the steerer, and wounds with diesel in take a long time to scab up.
Goan: Diesel on the road is a mechanical failure. It's a failure of the interface between the tyre and the road.
Can I say cock too?
Cock!
I once broke a pair of 2 week old SIDs wiping out on a diesel slick..
Leant into the apex, thought "that smells like di..." and then hit the deck.
Bent the steerer, and wounds with diesel in take a long time to scab up.
Goan: Diesel on the road is a mechanical failure. It's a failure of the interface between the tyre and the road.
oops. I said that twice.
Jesus H Christ goan, I bet you're a great instructor, people must be so keen to pass their test and get the **** out of your car so they never see you again! I'd put the passenger side of the car into a lamp post to try and shut you up. Get off your high horse, preferably head first onto a hard surface. Ta!
To be fair to Goan, I bet he is actually a really nice guy in the flesh.
It certainly doesn't come across in any of his posts though.
bikewhisperer - Member
Goan: Diesel on the road is a mechanical failure. It's a failure of the interface between the tyre and the road.
But maybe in goan world its not called mechanical grip and he has never had an accident where it has been one of those things or maybe he is just a fan of the good old US and has to blame some one even if they are trying to help a fallen child back up.
njee20 - Member
Jesus H Christ goan, I bet you're a great instructor, people must be so keen to pass their test and get the **** out of your car so they never see you again! I'd put the passenger side of the car into a lamp post to try and shut you up. Get off your high horse, preferably head first onto a hard surface. Ta!
😆
has to blame some one even if they are trying to help a fallen child back up.
😆
Renton.......I'm not sure how tyres that feel flexy on the back will feel any better on the front. Am not sure, but the chances are that the weight distribution on a C-Max will be more towards the front, and you will then be asking the tyres to carry more load and also deal with the power from the engine & doing steering duties as well.
Shesh all this bickering, I've told you boys a million times to stop argueing. Where's coffeeking when we need him.
I'm here, though I'm not sure what help I'd be 😆 ! It seems the sensible points have been blown out of proportion and into tiny pieces for arguments sake. At the end of the day we know:
There was D on the road.
The tyres were new, the user new to the feel of them - they didnt feel right.
Other people succumbed to the D, so it's not in their imagination.
D can cause people to spin without excessive ooomph being used.
D can fall in small or large patches, not everyone passing can or will hit smaller patches. Certainly smaller spills can be only 6" wide and in the same line as the tyre motion, meaning if you're not in the 6" lateral window you may not even come into contact with it, but if you are, you could spin out of control.
So ultimately the point is:
It probably had nothing to do with the tyres.
It probably did have something to do with the D.
There's no way of knowing if his wife was driving like an idiot as the diesel spill may or may not have been hit and may or may not have been sufficient to cause a spin, so judgement on this cannot be made.
On a humorous side note, does anyone else think there's an extra S in this campaign that shouldnt be there?
[url= http://www.northants.police.uk/default.aspx?id=7890&db=old&datewant=yes ]Spills kills[/url]
njee20 - i thought about saying that I hope you die a slow and horrible death. But then I remembered I'm not that kind of person.
As for the rest of you muppets come back when you can back up your "i'm a brilliant driver and nothing is ever my fault attitude", until then stay the **** away from here because I quite like being able to return home at night without having been wiped out by someone who was testing the limits of their tyres.
Anyone ever thought that the limits of their tyres may be way beyond the limits of their ability? No - thought not.
As for the rest of you muppets come back when you can back up your "i'm a brilliant driver and nothing is ever my fault attitude
No one's saying that you ignorant moron, people are just suggesting that you don't know all the facts and that there are other things at play.
How do you post all day when you're driving a million miles anyway?!
I never said I hoped you died a slow, painful death. Just wish that you'd be less of a dickhead!
Edit: as for your last point, yes, I said that public roads are no place to be 'testing' your tyres. Whilst I can see the merit of doing such things somewhere secluded I've never felt the need personally.
[i]On a humorous side note, does anyone else think there's an extra S in this campaign that shouldnt be there?[/i]
Spill kills? nah that doesn't make any sense.
On no, now smee will be annoyed he hasn't got the last word.
just been out and checked the load rating on the new tyres....
originals were 91v new ones are 94v
would that make much difference??
car is a 2.0focus cmax tdci
notably higher load rating = stiffer sidewalls. Might make the car feel more responsive with a slightly higher tendency to break away in a snap rather than progressively scrub, but the difference will be small. Small enough for me to suggest it was more than likely to be the D and a lack of awareness of the break-away starting, rather than the tyres just not gripping.
njee20 - have i done something to upset you personally? If I haven't - whats with the abuse?
renton - you still haven't told us where it happened.
coffeeking that goes against me saying they feel flexy then??
An average XL tyre would likely be stiffer than an standard load rated example but this is certainly not an absolute rule
As mentioned: Ford has strong ideas over how they expect their cars to perform hence the OE Standard load tyre could quite conceivably be stiffer than the replacement spec XL rated to match the steering dynamics they insist upon.
As Ford themselves say: "Feel the difference"...
have i done something to upset you personally?
I just find your attitude appalling. "I know better than you, I'm amazing, kiss my feet, your wife can't drive, I am GOD etc". It makes you sound like a total tosser. Sure I'm not alone in this opinion.
But hey, luckily I've already learned to drive and I've never going to become an instructor, so with a bit of luck our paths need never cross. I also hope you never post a thread asking for advice on anything, with a bit of luck people will rip you to shreds!
Flexy sidewalls could also be due to underinflated tyres.
renton - yes and no, people are notoriously bad at identifying car suspension/tyre problems/differences. A stiff sidewall tyre may feel "loose" depending on the situation, its quite easy to mix that up with flexy. The best ways I can identify how a rear tyre feels is the reaction of my ass. If it feels like the rear is on tip-toes round bends it's probably either more rigid than the last/pumped up too high or WAY WAY underinflated and virtually walking off the rim. Softer tyres tend to give a more secure feeling that makes you have increased confidence. Its hard to explain and something I think you only really "get" when you've used many sets of tyres on the same car, taken the same corners time and time again and noted the differences in tyre makeup. But at the same time it's possible that your higher load index tyres still have more flexy sidewalls than your old tyres with lower load index, it depends on how that tyre was made and by whome. Explaining the differences online is fairly hard. I'd drop a couple of psi from the tyre and see if it still feels the same, watching/minding for too much tread wear on the shoulders and too much heating on long runs. Vary your pressure by +- 2psi from standard and see which is best. Dont go too far and be careful while doing it.
njee20 - my attitude is fine. I am open, honest and take responsibility for my actions. I dont really care if people think I'm a tosser and make no apologies for telling things like I see them.
The question that I want to ask is why do people get upset to the point of wishing injury on others when someone doesn't agree with them? I am an expert on road safety, some of you are experts on IT. If someone asks for help with an IT problem they dont get torn to shreds and called all the cocks under the sun. I can use a computer, but i'm not an expert. Many of you can drive, but not many are expert drivers - some of you would do well to remember that.
Sure I'm not alone in this opinion.
Actually I'm with Goan, most of the drivers on here are coming across as the typical British motorist, impatient, ignorant and inattentive, not to mention constantly trying to pin the balme on others for their own failings.
I've hit a patch of diesel that I didn't see on a roundabout before, as much as I might decry the fact that I had to keep up with traffic and spend more time second guessing idiot drivers than I could looking at the road surface, its still ultimately my fault I hit the deck.
coffeking this is what its feels like on these new tyres........
you could be going round a bend and all of a sudden it gets tighter/sharper so you add some more steering , the front goes round then the back end feels like its going to oversteer then actually settles if you see what i mean...?
they feel like they are rolling more ,like when you have to little psi in your rear bike tire.
does that make sense?
No road all of a sudden gets sharper - its been that way since the road was built.
Not entirely sure it was your fault though you so graciously accept it. If you cannot see it, it's fair to say you cant be expected to drive everywhere as if there were diesel there. So by process of common sense and elimination, it's not strictly your fault you hit the deck, unless the D was clearly visible from your riding position.
Clearly many people drive outside their capabilities, many people over-estimate their abilities and people underestimate risks. The question is how to position yourself in that triangle and where it is acceptable to take risks. There's a risk that someone will blow through a red light, but it's not common sense to assume that will always happen and slow to a near-halt when passing through that junction.
Renton - does indeed sound like you have particularly flexy tyres (could be the tread pattern or the sidewalls) or underinflated, but I suspect it's a trait of the tyre and not a faulty tyre. I know people who like tyres like that. I find they keep you feeling like you're on a knife edge guessing whether you're sliding or not. I also know drivers who drive with tyres like that and have no idea it feels like that, so you're obviously quite in touch with the feeling of the car. Have you actually thrown it round a late-night-carpark to see if it lets go more easily than you expect? I suspect it wont, yokos are fairly good tyres - you may just have to get used to the feel unless you want to change. Personally I'd try a few different tyre pressures (I always do on new tyres anyway) and see if it helps, but dont stray far from recommended, 5psi is a LOT in tyre terms - 5psi under can lead to excessive heating and cumulative tyre damage.
Goan .... eff off will you im trying to explain how the back end of my car feels .
imagine puling your car tighter into a turn.
you really are a top class cock mate.
njee20 - my attitude is fine.
In your own not so humble opinon.
As i said before i've seen your type of i'm an instructor so i know it all, and i've seem the bits of them after their big off. Just make sure you have it away from the rest of us.
"If you can do, teach!"
It is not acceptable to take risks on a public road. Try going to the track if you want to take risks.
Someone took a risk on the roads last week near here and this is what happened. VW driver took a risk.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/south_of_scotland/8223777.stm
Renton - check the tyre pressures and check that you haven't taken the top coil off one of your springs.
Goan - youre always taking risks. It just depends where you draw the line. My personal point is that you should not force greater risk on others.
It is not acceptable to take risks on a public road
Of course it is
Goan - Membernjee20 - my attitude is fine. I am open, honest and take responsibility for my actions. I dont really care if people think I'm a tosser and make no apologies for telling things like I see them.
I am going to comment on this as we have both clashed badly and agreed strongly on stuff.
You come over very very arrogantly Goan - and have done in all your incarnations. I know thats a bit pot kettle black from me - I know I sound far more certain than I intend to be on stuff.
You go far too far in defending the indefensible. When caught out in hyperbole as in the million miles of driving or in other places where you have clearly been wrong you need to learn to admit it.
|You know your stuff about driving but you are far too black and white in your opinions on stuff. You often do exactly what you accused others of on the zoofighter thread.
Just lighten up a bit - try to see why sometimes tha vast majority of opinion is against you - you might have got the wrong end of the stick, you might have made a mistake.
I know this is perhaps a bit rich coming from me but I see a few of the same traits I get a tough time for in you.
Try to find a little humilty, try to look for the other persons point of view. I suspect you are actually very unsure of your position often - so argue furiously as you cannot bear to be proved wrong.
CK- we're going to have fun on your assessment mate. 😉
Goan. It's clear from lots of your posts that you're quite passionate about road safety, which is most welcome. Perhaps if you dispense your advice, which is generally good advice, with a bit more tact and humility you might find that people are far more receptive to it, which at the end the day is what you are trying to achieve.
does being an driving instructor trainer make you an expert in road safety? I kind of thought it made you an expert in instructor training....
CK- we're going to have fun on your assessment mate.
While it may get heated I'm sure it'll remain civil and reasoned 🙂 In serious question though, considering you're likely to see me at a time when there's traffic about and on reasonably busy roads, and when I have a passenger (by definition) I suspect you'll see me driving less riskily than I would on my own on deserted country roads (which has been my point from the start - dont increase anyone elses risks but still can enjoy the roads)?
Goan - MemberIt is not acceptable to take risks on a public road. Try going to the track if you want to take risks.
This proves my point totally - you have to take risks when driving. Its about risk assessment and management as you should know.
What you actually mean is you should not be taking unneeded risks. Its a risk every time you get in a car. An idiot might come thru a red light and hit you, your tyres might blow, your engine might blow covering your tyres with oil, the car you are overtaking might swerve.
Driving is a risk and safe driving is about risk assessment and risk management.
In defence of Goan he has, though abruptly at times, been perfectly civil and explained his reasoning throughout, even if I haven't agreed on all the points.
Uplink - give me an example of where it is acceptable to take a risk on a public road.
TJ - I stick by the 1 million miles thing. Just because you cant get your head round it, it doesn't mean it didn't happen.
Driving is black and white, and safe driving is really ****ing simple. It annoys me that people in this country cant see that the roads are not a competition ground, the road isn't your ****ing castle and you dont own it.
When it comes to driving I have no intention of lightening up. Come spend a bit of time driving around with me and you'll see the appalling standards of driving on the roads.
I am also man enough to hold my hands up when i've made a mistake and have done a few times on here.
TJ - that is a fair point and a better way of putting it.
TJ - that is a fair point and probably a better way of putting it.
does being an driving instructor trainer make you an expert in road safety?
No, it simply means your a qualified person
I'm qualified in a few things but I'd be streched to claim to be an expert in any in particular
The DSA say I'm an expert, I'd tend to go with their opinion rather than yours.
Uplink - give me an example of where it is acceptable to take a risk on a public road.
When I drive down the motorway, I'm taking a risk that the people stood on the bridge don't suddely decide to drop a paving flag on top of me
It's an acceptable risk [IMO] to continue driving under the bridge if nothing looks untoward
Lots & lots of risks every day all day - even when you're sleeping
suspect you'll see me driving less riskily than I would on my own on deserted country roads (which has been my point from the start - dont increase anyone elses risks but still can enjoy the roads)?
Its just this type or arrogance that gets people killed. You maybe lucky and never hurt anyone, but unless the road is closed how can you know its deserted? I've lost a cycling friend because someone did something he thought wasnt risky. Take it to a track and keep it from the roads.
Goan - Member
The DSA say I'm an expert, I'd tend to go with their opinion rather than yours.
No they say that you are qualified to teach people how to teach people to drive you are in no way a expert on road saftey.
do you know just what each type of road surface is made up from and the positoning of street furniture that can make a difference to road safety?
Also every time you decied to get in a car you are taking a risk, every time you decied to pull out of a side road you are taking a risk. Every thing in life is taking a risk but each and every person has to decied if they want to take a risk.
I would agree that the standard of driving in this country is appallling but it has more to do with both arragonce and the not wainting to be held up by anyone or anything.
No, they do actually say that I'm an expert on road safety...
To answer your other question - Yes.
haven't read all of previous posts, looks like a lot of ranting.
I do sympathise with the OP - I have had a bad case of tyres not suiting the car, but before replacing them I tried everything to make them work, pressures, suspension getting checked out, camber, tracking, swapping wheels etc. But at the end of the day when the tyres were changed it was fixed.
As for not being able to spin whilst normal driving that is tosh. Touch wood hundreds of thousands of miles, 28 yrs of driving and not an accident I hit diesel on a wet road on a motorway slip road and I was out of control.
Bite the bullet and replace the tyres if you have a family spend a few hundred quid and the garage will surely do a deal.
Who is this goan guy anyway? The OP just wanted some tyre advice, at what point did he say
'actually, I could do with a world class tosspot logging in and telling me how much better he is than me/my wife/everyone else on the road'
Go ahead and **** off will you, the STW public will thank you.
kenneththecurtain - nice constructive post that. Well thought out, you must have fried a lot of neurons thinking that one up.
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Blimey, what a thread.
Driving cannot possibly be black and white!
The only driving you do without accepting some sort of risk is just sitting in your stationary vehicle in your own drive.
The risk of unexpected mechanical failure.
The risk of sneezing and missing something. (yes, you realy can't sneeze with your eyes open!)
The risk of you becoming ill (heart, stroke, epilepsy spring to mind) and losing control of the car.
The risk of someone else driving badly and colliding with you or causing you to alter your impecable standards of driving and say, hit the kerb to avoid a worse collision. Glupton faces all these risks to some extent every time he gets in a vehicle. His expertise may be such that he reduces many of these to lower levels than the rest of us. But he will never be rid of them.
I am not an expert on driving safety but I am 'quite good' at people who are literally too risk-averse to set foot outside their front doors. [i]Those[/i] are the people who never take risks. There is no such thing as black and white, and there is no such thing as driving or indeed anything else whilst thinking you have absolutely every last risk covered.
Ultimately glupton is probably right. But the way to establish this whilst retaining some sort of interest from the readers of this thread would be to enquire after a few more details for the benefit of us lesser beings, whet our inquisitive appetites so to speak, and then explain.
Glupton, if you really like black and white, train to be an engineer not a physio! Honestly, as one health bod to another prospective one, you will be frustrated at every turn if you think things will ever be anything like as clear-cut as this in your new job.
Anyway, otherwise some useful points on this thread: I think I'll go and check my tyre pressures now... 😀
JW - that's why I am changing careers, I tried engineering - I was shit at it. I hate the black and white of driving, its it reminds me of studying logic in enegineering, it bores me now - way too much time in a car.
I did also admit that I should have been talking about unnecessary risks, rather than all risks.
I have asked Renton to point out where his wife spun the car. My intention is to give various ways to deal with that type of junction and lessen the risk of making a mess of it.
julianwilson..........I crashed my first car into a barrier during an uncontrolled spate of sneezing. 6 or 7 sneezes on the trot half-way round a right hand bend at night......couldn't see a bloody thing.
Had I known I was going to sneeze to that extent I would have stopped & got it out of the way!
I also had a boost pipe connection fail while overtaking a car on the A1 - good job it was 4 lanes of A1, as if it had been a country road it might have been a bit different. Not sure how I could have anticipated this failure & hope it doesn't happen again.
So, I would say that driving does involve a number of risks. It's a matter of dynamic risk assessment.
You did ask him about where the roundabout was. But you also got everyone's backs up telling him it was his wife's fault straight off the bat. Make like Columbo and draw the evidence out gently and charmingly over an hour-long episode with two advertisment breaks. 🙂
Glupton, on another slightly tangential but off-the-topic-of-tyres-completely subject, (but since you are still watching) is it right or wrong (or just a little bit right :wink:) to drive over the white bit in the middle of a mini roundabout if there is room to drive round it? Always wondered and dimly remember my driving instructor saying something about it 15 years ago....
julianwilson - Member
Blimey, what a thread.Driving cannot possibly be black
Racist
JW - do whatever you want if it's safe.
Burn Goan, burn goan
[img] 
[/img]
why can't you do something if there is risk involved?
Going back to the last page... Speshpaul I have no problem with you whatsoever, it's Smee/glupton/goan/godofroadsafety who's attitude is ridiculous and who, for some reason, has really annoyed me. I don't normally waste time on people like him, but something about his attitude has irked me.
The odd thing is that I agree with a number of the points you've made Goan, people driving too fast/hard etc, 'testing' the limits of their vehicles on public roads, it's crazy, but your high-handed attitude just makes you seem like an arrogant prick.
Anyway, shouldn't you be a world cup elite racer now with all the time you were going to have to train? Or do you instead spend that time doing laps of roundabouts getting you up to a million miles and making sure you know exactly what a diesel spill looks like.
You also never justified how you manage to spend all your time posting on STW when you also allegedly drive 32603 miles on a quiet hour.
Njee20 - I'm glad that I appear to be getting under peoples skin. IT might make them think about their driving a wee bit more. If it does, then my job is done.
expert?
ex - has been
spurt - drip under pressure
imo anyone who says they're an expert is to be avoided
a bit like people who say they're cool or crazy
I haven't read all of this thread as i ain't got all day 🙂
I bought some Goodyear Eagle F1's for my car about 6months ago, and the car felt terrible, i tried the obvious different pressure's etc and nothing made much difference, i emailed goodyear out of curiosity to see what pressure's they recommended for my car, they emailed me back pretty quick and asked me for the number on the sidewall of the tyre which i sent to them, he then mailed me a phone number and said give them a call, so i phoned them up and he suggested the tyres i bought i take them back to the garage i got them from as they were designed for the middle east and not for uk conditions, there is a difference in the compounds and the type of rubber used, anyway took them back to the garage with a copy of the email from Goodyear and they were replaced with some new Goodyear Eagle F1's which this time were made in germany (the other set were made in thailand) and what a difference the car is how it should be...
Just to add it wasn't the garage's fault and they were more than helpfull, they got the tyres off there distributor who was at fault for sourcing probably cheaper than normal good years, the tyres looked identical but the drive is so different....
Ohhh, there you go, an interesting and useful response.
We got there in the end.
😀
indeed
best "what tyre" thread ever
FWIW I've never had tyres that were so bad I spun the car. Even tiny 13" tyres on my ancient Polo that were £20 each. My guess is a combination of road contamination and non-bedded in tyres. 80% of the first.
molgrips - where does driver error come into your equation? There must have been some of it to spin a car....
Ohhh, there you go, an interesting and useful response.We got there in the end.
Think you'll find I posed the very same points in my first few replies to the thread!
EDIT, in fact, 2nd post:
. I am surprised that yokos are THAT poor though, while each tread pattern and compound (different compounds are used across the world, depends on your source and whether they bought cheap ones from abroad) are different, usually the more well known ones are consistently strong but with some tendencies.
<beats chest in a silverback fashion> 😆
I even suggested he return them to see if they were wrong compound.
Still haven't gotten to the bottom of why people are always looking for something else to blame their **** ups on and why they wont entertain the possibility that it was human error.......
Because it's human nature to blame others, hence thats the first place people look. Often those who blame themselves first have serious confidence disorders. Sometimes they're just quite enlightened.
Plus when something out of the ordinary happens when you have done nothing unusual and in a manner that normally causes no harm, it's the logical thing to look for the only item that has changed.
OK, so you've fallen off your bike and need hospital treatment urgently. Goan, SpeshPaul and njee20 each turn up in an ambulance and offer to drive you the 320 miles along winding mountain roads to the nearest hospital for lifesaving medical attention. based upon what you know of each of them, which ambulance do you crawl into?
Don't know if I missed something, but I always think new tyres seem a bit iffy for the first few hundred miles. Doesn't it say something about being careful until they are run in on the guarantee?
OK, so you've fallen off your bike and need hospital treatment urgently. Goan, SpeshPaul and njee20 each turn up in an ambulance and offer to drive you the 320 miles along winding mountain roads to the nearest hospital for lifesaving medical attention. based upon what you know of each of them, which ambulance do you crawl into?
The helicopter
Goan, SpeshPaul and njee20 each turn up in an ambulance and offer to drive you the 320 miles along winding mountain roads to the nearest hospital for lifesaving medical attention. based upon what you know of each of them, which ambulance do you crawl into?
LOL!
No offence to any involved, but I think I'd walk. I'm quite distrusting of just about everyone's driving.
I'd be wondering when outer mongolia got ambulances and hospitals and htf i got there.
well after reading 2 pages of bull shit thought i would say a few words on the subject
tyres are a man made product primaly made up of oil and polomers and compounds the cheaper versions out there being made to a price and probaley taking longer to stop in the wet as a more well known brand
with regrad to your problem my thoughts on the matter would be that it would be more of hitting some diesal on the road etc rather than the poor handling of the tyre even though i am not an adovacte of yokohamas and seeing as it was on a roundabout this is a usual occurance but not on a regular basis
with regrad to your combitation how much depth have your fronts have ? maybe you could try these on the back with the yokos on the front to see if they will bed in
tyres dont have mould agents on them but do need in some very rare cases
need to be run a few miles to have the silca coating worn off this coating thats on them is too stop premature ageing when they are taken out of the mould this is because a tyre starts aging as soon as it leaves the mould
another scenerio is the cars stabilty isnt right due to you having 2 different tyres on but usual only find it a problem with more high powered cars
try taking to the tyre dealer who sold you the tyres and get them to get a field service engineer from Yokoahama to get involved
have you had any adjusment done to the cars tracking front or rear and was this done at the same time as the tyres being replaced was it by a ford dealership? if so then you need to question wether this was done correctly? tyres main function and how they work is for the oil content in the tyre tread area when driving is for it to work simliar with warming oils on our muscles prior to excise except in the tyres case by driving forward the friction created by rolling over a tramac road warms the oil up changeing the compound in the tread area thus for it to then maintain grip and also to give a certain amount of life as you the motorist looks for ie milage usual the cheaper the product in some cases the longer the life but poorer the grip
well thats my rant and before you start have being sellig tyres for the last 40 years in which some of them have included doing some competion work ie rallyng so do have a fair knowledge of them and to be honest they are all much of the same some more suited to a particular car/driver then the next but you do get a better product the more you go up the price ladder
my current brand which i have to say to be an all round type is call Toyo and have sold and fitted it to most types of vechlies with out any problems