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I predict the resurgence of lard. Should go down well with brexit types as well.
Perhaps it was banned as a "Christmas" advert based on the fact ( as far as I can see ), that it's got FA to do with Christmas ?
I predict the resurgence of lard.
Nowt wrong with a bit of animal fat. No trans fat in them either.
I use beef dripping for yorkie's all the time.
https://www.clearcast.co.uk/press/iceland-advert/
Clearcast is not a regulator and we do not ban ads. The Iceland ad submitted to us is a Greenpeace film which has been appearing on the Greenpeace website for a number of months.
The specific rule Clearcast and the broadcasters have considered is:
An advertisement contravenes the prohibition on political advertising if it is:
An advertisement which is inserted by or on behalf of a body whose objects are wholly or mainly of a political nature.
Clearcast’s concerns do not extend to the content or message of the ad.
Only skimming through but as the missus works in the food industry and with Iceland they are removing palm from their own brand products apart from where it's too expensive, at that point the food is under a 3rd party brand which is theirs and does contain palm.
Perhaps it is a touch more political than it 1st appears...
Hmmm...
Well at least it doesn't involve lucrative arms deals for BAE Systems, right?
Oh:
After her appearance at the cenotaph today, let's not forget Theresa May has a hand in all this:
And that HSBC and BAE Systems are heavily tied.
So, how come HSBC ended up sponsoring British Cycling anyhoo...
May have something to do with this too
It’s not clear what kind of oil we’re supposed to switch to, some kind of animal oil? Another veg oil? Whatever it is we’re supposed to switch to, is it more efficient and therefore less demanding of land? If so why aren’t manufacturers already using *that* oil?
Palm oil is up there for efficient land use, unfortunately it seems to be land that often already has a use for orangutans and the like.
I guess nobody has heard of sunflower oil or rapeseed oil, otherwise they might try using that…
Its not very efficient compared to palm and I suppose you could argue that the land this is grown on was once woodland habitat too, certainty in the UK and France. No easy answer.
Thanks Nickjb. Might have been better if the media and come up with that graphic on day one of this whole pointless frenzy.
^ Are you Philip May?
Has the labeling law changed? Some products list palm oil but they can be sneaky and just list ‘vegetable oil’ which more often than not is actually palm oil..
I support the charity Orangutan Appeal UK and at their suggestion a few years ago I wrote to my MP requesting that he support clear specific labelling of "Palm Oil" on ingredients lists instead of allowing it to just be hidden as "Vegetable Oils".
Unfortunately he was a Tory - so I got a lovely reply about it being an "unnecessary cost burden to business" and "letting the free market decide". 🙄
a Tory
I support the charity Orangutan Appeal UK and at their suggestion a few years ago I wrote to my MP requesting that he support clear specific labelling of “Palm Oil” on ingredients lists instead of allowing it to just be hidden as “Vegetable Oils”.
If Palm oil was labelled and people therefore bought less of it, wouldn't that result in people buying more of the alternative veg oils which consume over 4 times more habitat?
Nice thought provoking advert, but did I miss the Christmas link?
wouldn’t that result in people buying more of the alternative veg oils which consume over 4 times more habitat?
Four times more land use, maybe, but not habitat.
A look around UK fields suggests that rapeseed and sunflowers grow pretty well in places that are not currently rainforest habitats of critically endangered species. But I don't see many Oil Palms grown on farms here.
Four times more land use, maybe, but not habitat.
A look around UK fields suggests that rapeseed and sunflowers grow pretty well in places that are not currently rainforest habitats of critically endangered species. But I don’t see many Oil Palms grown on farms here.
Ok, so they want us to switch oil to use 4 times *more* land to grown veg oil, but that that land would not be in rainforests. Just out of interest where would the extra land be? (I assumed mankind was digging up forest to farm because that the only unused fertile land available to support increase food/bio-fuel demand.)
Also can you give some examples of land currently unused by man that will support growing of bio-oil that aren't "habitat" for anything.
The detail behind this campaign should have been spelled out on the Greenpeace website. They're obvious questions and I suspect the behaviour this is going to promote is going to be literally 4 times worse for the environment than what's currently happening.
Iceland's going to be coining it in though.
more a question of ethics?
The only way.
Luckily the ban has really raised the issue. I'd not have seen it if it had only been on the telly as I don't watch the commercial channels.
Four times more land use, maybe, but not habitat.
A look around UK fields suggests that rapeseed and sunflowers grow pretty well in places that are not currently rainforest habitats of critically endangered species. But I don’t see many Oil Palms grown on farms here.
But that land was once nice habitat, probably ancient woodland, full of now gone species. We chopped it all down to grow crops, made a lot of money, got our place at the big table. Now we are saying to other countries that they shouldn't do that. I agree that they shouldn't but it doesn't seem very fair. This is a global issue that needs a big solution and countries to work together.
I assumed mankind was digging up forest to farm because that the only unused fertile land available to support increase food/bio-fuel demand.
You think the only unused fertile land we have left in the world is Malaysian rainforest??
I don't think things are quite that desperate just yet.
Also can you give some examples of land currently unused by man that will support growing of bio-oil that aren’t “habitat” for anything.
Examples that aren't habitat for any life at all? No. Obviously not. Silly point.
The detail behind this campaign should have been spelled out on the Greenpeace website.
The campaign I was talking about had nothing to do with Greenpeace. It was from the Orangutan Appeal UK, which is linked to the Orangutan sanctuary at Sepilok which I visited.
I suspect the behaviour this is going to promote is going to be literally 4 times worse for the environment than what’s currently happening.
I suspect you are wrong, but trying to make some kind of point for some reason.
I'm assuming it is something about how treehugging liberal lefties are terribly naïve?
<span style="font-size: 0.8rem; line-height: 1.3;">You think the only unused fertile land we have left in the world is Malaysian rainforest??</span>
Well yes, I assume people don't dig up forests if there's land that's just as good, but with no forest to clear. I'd love to be wrong, it would certainly ease my fears about the phosphates crisis.
<span style="font-size: 0.8rem; line-height: 1.3;">Examples that aren’t habitat for any life at all? No.</span>
Ok.
<span style="font-size: 0.8rem; line-height: 1.3;">I suspect the behaviour this is going to promote is going to be literally 4 times worse for the environment than what’s currently happening.</span>
I suspect you are wrong,
Maybe, but I can't see how buying products that require 4 times more land will alleviate the problem of a scarcity of farmland resulting in a ton of forest getting dug up to create farmland.
This is a global issue that needs a big solution and countries to work together.
This. Mind you deep down we already know the answer, there has to be less of us.
there has to be less of us.
That I agree with.
But global genocide is such a loaded term. 😉
Maybe, but I can’t see how buying products that require 4 times more land will alleviate the problem of a scarcity of farmland resulting in a ton of forest getting dug up to create farmland.
How about just stopping buying the (non-essential) products? That seems like a fairly easy way to cut the 'demand'. I'm not suggesting living like a monk/nun/hermit (your choice) but cutting down on conspicuous consumption is better for everyone.
Once again, Thanos was right.
How about just stopping buying the (non-essential) products?
As someone mentioned earlier, it is actually quite hard to avoid palm oil (even if it is explicitly listed as an ingredient) because it is used in loads of stuff.
I'm sure there's an argument there for making everything from scratch with basic ingredients - but not everyone has the time, skill or inclination to make their own ice cream, chocolate, shampoo, breakfast cereal, crisps, soap, Jack Daniels, etc etc
there has to be less of us.That I agree with.
But global genocide is such a loaded term. 😉
Weird thing is, the targets of industrialized genocide tend to be in countries where there's far less wealth and thus consumption (albeit normally a wealth of natural resources to be exploited)
That would suggest either:
a) We need to reconsider where the (environmentally destructive) weapons are aimed
or alternatively,
b) Reduce consumption
As someone mentioned earlier, it is actually quite hard to avoid palm oil (even if it is explicitly listed as an ingredient) because it is used in loads of stuff.
I’m sure there’s an argument there for making everything from scratch with basic ingredients – but not everyone has the time, skill or inclination to make their own ice cream, chocolate, shampoo, breakfast cereal, crisps, soap, Jack Daniels, etc etc
Just reduce the amount of stuff you buy with it in, it's fairly easy to do. I appreciate that it's in loads of stuff, but most of this-
ice cream, chocolate, breakfast cereal, crisps, Jack Daniels, etc etc
isn't really essential, is it? It's pretty easy to buy food without it in, just look at the ingredients on the back before you chuck it in your trolley, plus any chocolate that's got palm oil in it probably isn't that nice anyway 🙂
just look at the ingredients on the back before you chuck it in your trolley
But as mentioned, it's not always obvious...
Or easy to avoid..
See, all of that stuff you just posted there is crap food from shitty businesses with questionable ethics. Why would you buy that stuff? It's easy to avoid if you don't buy shit food.
See, all of that stuff you just posted there is crap food from shitty businesses with questionable ethics.
Nestle are ****ing horrible. Selling baby formula in the 3rd World. A spot in the 9th Circle should be reserved for the people who do stuff like that.
I am guilty of buying Oxo cubes, owned by Mars I believe.
Also P&G shampoo and washing powder, as I think it's almost impossible to avoid them.
Buy very little in the way of processed food, no cereal, no ready meals etc. I find that stuff very easy to avoid.
I do buy peanuts and other nuts. Are they evil?
It’s easy to avoid if you don’t buy shit food.
What about the non-food stuff? Toothpaste, shampoo, soap, tampons, nappies, toilet paper, medicine, laundry detergent...
Honestly if you think it is easy to avoid then take that list of alternate names and have a look through the contents of your kitchen, bathroom and laundry cupboards at home. I think you'll be surprised.
I agree it's hard to buy non-food stuff without palm oil in it but it is possible to buy some stuff fairly easily-
shampoos-
toothpaste-
https://www.ethicalsuperstore.com/products/green-people/green-people-peppermint-toothpaste-50ml/
washing powders-
I've got nothing to do with that site by the way.
Putting a bit more thought into what we buy is worth trying, surely.
The list of products containing it and alternatives to be bought instead unfortunately misses the largest use of palm oil and less easy to quantify as it's not listed on the ingredients list; namely animal feed. If you are a meat eater or consume dairy that is your largest consumption of palm oil; your are just doing it 2nd hand.
How about just stopping buying the (non-essential) products? That seems like a fairly easy way to cut the ‘demand’.
100pc in agreement with that. (and I've lost 3 stone in 6 months and reducing veg oils must have contributed to that.)
...but where I do need veg oil it seems that palm oil is going to require about 1/4 of that land use relative to the alternatives. If people switch out palm oil we are going to require far more land, not less.
The list of products containing it and alternatives to be bought instead unfortunately misses the largest use of palm oil and less easy to quantify as it’s not listed on the ingredients list; namely animal feed.
Is there's more veg oil used in animal feed than in bio-fuel? If bio-fuel is over 50pc of our palm oil usage I can't see how there can be.
it is possible to buy some stuff fairly easily-
Well I'm not sure that most people would consider buying their every day essentials from an expensive specialist online-only ethical superstore to be "fairly easy".
But I applaud your effort if you do.
Just out of interest ...
Uh oh.
Is there’s more veg oil used in animal feed than in bio-fuel? If bio-fuel is over 50pc of our palm oil usage I can’t see how there can be.
Sorry, I was referring to ingestion when I said use.
Genuine question though - how do I personally use bio-fuel? Not sure where I come into day to day contact with it.
How about just stopping buying the (non-essential) products?
Like fermented shark. Way to go, Iceland.
100pc in agreement with that. (and I’ve lost 3 stone in 6 months and reducing veg oils must have contributed to that.)
…but where I do need veg oil it seems that palm oil is going to require about 1/4 of that land use relative to the alternatives. If people switch out palm oil we are going to require far more land, not less.
Nice one on the weight loss 🙂
If we stop buying stuff we don't need that has palm oil in it then surely the land that has already been given over to producing the stuff would suffice? We don't need nutella, or peanut butter with it in, or shit chocolate, or make-up...
Well I’m not sure that most people would consider buying their every day essentials from an expensive specialist online-only ethical superstore to be “fairly easy”.
But I applaud your effort if you do.
Nicely taken out of context 😉 My point was that a quick google threw up a load of results for palm oil free stuff, plus you don't buy everyday essentials every day, do you?
how do I personally use bio-fuel?
Nothing to do with what I was asking but t<span style="font-size: 0.8rem; line-height: 1.3;">he most obvious way is that you and I buy stuff that is delivered by lorries and some of those are running on bio fuel. </span>
If we stop buying stuff we don’t need that has palm oil in it then surely the land that has already been given over to producing the stuff would suffice?
No, if we switch away from palm oil you'd need far more land, for the reasons already stated. Unless mankind buys 4x more veg oil than it needs with given one child dies every 30 seconds from hunger I very much doubt.
My point was that a quick google threw up a load of results for palm oil free stuff
Yeah, but it is specialist stuff that is a) very expensive and b) not widely available.
That Green People toothpaste you linked to is £3.95 for 50ml and you have to order it online.
That takes some commitment when you can pop into ASDA on the way home and pick up a 75ml of Colgate for 80p.
So my point is that yes, there are options, I agree, but suggesting that they are "fairly easy" is a bit disingenuous.
Suprised no one has responded to this...
there has to be less of us.That I agree with.
But global genocide is such a loaded term. 😉
Weird thing is, the targets of industrialized genocide tend to be in countries where there’s far less wealth and thus consumption (albeit normally a wealth of natural resources to be exploited)That would suggest either:
a) We need to reconsider where the (environmentally destructive) weapons are aimed
or alternatively,
b) Reduce consumption
Could that and the previous points raised regarding how Theresa May's Husband, BAE, HSBC and British Cycling fit into the palm oil debate be 'too political' perhaps?
But it is fairly easy! Click, click, click... knock on the door... delivered. That's certainly easier than popping into Asda 🙂 It's more expensive but your argument is a bit 'but what about meeeee' to be frank.