MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
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I work for a smallish company, only around 15 people based permanently in the UK. I've been here 2 years now and I am expected to work long hours, evenings, weekends, attend all of the trade shows, travel in the UK and abroad to meet clients including the client dinners/drinks etc. I only get the statuary minimum holiday allowance of 20 days which was tough to swallow but that is another matter.
This year, as the summer is our peak time of year, my boss has decided to put in a blanket ban saying that nobody can take any holiday from the start of April right the way through to the start of September. Is this allowed legally?
Given you have a right to a family life (and if you have a family) then I can't see how a blanket ban can be reasonable.
What does your contract say?
What does it say in your contract?
Is this allowed legally?
In broad terms.....yes.
In broad terms…..yes.
If it is in the contract then yes. If the boss has suddenly decided to enforce the rule then I would say no.
Probably is legal, but doesnt sound like a great place to work, I'd be looking for something else, and make sure you cite this as one of the reason why you're leaving in the exit interview.
Given you have a right to a family life (and if you have a family) then I can’t see how a blanket ban can be reasonable.
Article 8 doesn’t apply to holidays from work
Hard to imagine that at least 1 of those 15 people don't have school aged kids, so i'd not expect a ban to last (unless he's having shedding staff)
Probably is legal, but doesnt sound like a great place to work, I’d be looking for something else, and make sure you cite this as one of the reason why you’re leaving in the exit interview.
Totally. Sounds like a shit company but guess they are applying a business need to introduce a holiday ban. I would be leaving as soon as I could. When you get to retirement you will look back and wonder what the hell you were playing at working too many hours for crap companies.
I'd spend the summer looking for a new job with a more enlightened employer. That said I can see in the tourism industry etc. you'd not really want staff taking holiday during certain periods, seems odd it wouldn't be clearly stated in your contract and not having been a thing before (although in your case it sounds crappy working conditions even before the holiday ban was imposed).
Often your contract will have a clause that says holiday can only be taken at a time that suits the business. The business clearly doesn't want staff disappearing off during the busy time.
Perfectly legal if in your contract.
IE if they want to enforce this rule then are free to do so provided you are still given the opportunity to take your holiday outside of these times.
Isn't this just the same as retail staff not be able to take holidays in the run up to Christmas?
It's not in the contract, the company owner just decided to have this as a rule this year. There are a few people that have school aged kids and there isn't much they can do about it. It has been a bit of a revolving door recently.
Holidays are down to management discretion but I wanted to know if they are legally allowed to block off 5 months where nobody can take a holiday, especially through the summer period when most people want to take holidays.
Isn’t this just the same as retail staff not be able to take holidays in the run up to Christmas?
Only if it was for the 6 months leading up to christmas
markoc1984
Subscriber
It’s not in the contract, the company owner just decided to have this as a rule this year. There are a few people that have school aged kids and there isn’t much they can do about it. It has been a bit of a revolving door recently.
If people are already leaving and the management aren't responding, then following the flock seems like a sensible idea
I am expected to work long hours, evenings, weekends, attend all of the trade shows, travel in the UK and abroad to meet clients including the client dinners/drinks etc.
So - how does that stack up hours per week wise? What does a typical week look like? Have you signed out of the EU max working hours?
It's usually something along the lines of 'we reserve the right to vary times in accordance with the needs of the business and to ensure adequate staffing levels', assuming that's the case, then technically yes they could, but we specify certain points in the year for blanket bans.
A blanket ban for what is nearly 6 months of a year is bonkers though. Alongside the other points, I would be looking for a new job, pronto.
My previous employer had a 3 month "no leave" policy, but that's fairly typical in small, seasonal businesses. It was in the contract and made clear during interviews etc, so no surprise.
It's not ideal but might be the only way a small business can survive and continue to offer employment.
In your case I'd be looking at all the "other" stuff too and ensuring I was being paid for it all.
Sounds to me like they're understaffed and don't have enough cover for holidays. I imagine, even with only 20 days, if I couldn't book time off during those dates I'd probably not use them all.
TBH that would be a complete deal breaker for me, on top of what seems a pretty shit place to work.
Has a blanket ban only just been imposed or is your boss just not accepting further annual leave requests for the period? Because I'd have thought a lot of people would have already booked and paid for holidays within that period. Allowing existing booked leave but refusing further requests seems fairly reasonable for a small business to do.
Sounds like time to polish the CV up.
It was imposed at the beginning of the year when nobody had booked any holiday. The company is overstaffed during the winter and understaffed during the summer.
The most annoying part of it all is my boss takes a total of over a months holiday throughout the summer, his 5 ski trips during the winter, 2 weeks over Christmas, plus his numerous other shooting days and other excursions throughout the year, totalled 12 weeks last year, but it's his company he can do what he wants.
Generally it's a good place to work with good people, it's just the work/home life balance that is pretty rubbish.
The most annoying part of it all is my boss takes a total of over a months holiday throughout the summer...............but it’s his company he can do what he wants
You really want to stay working for this guy?
At my place we only have 11 in my part of the company (we are part of a larger group but totally unconnected), but we have a clause in our contract to say we must take 2 weeks over the Summer period, it doesn't need to be consecutive weeks.
And if the entire company has only 6 months (or less if the year runs Jan-Dec) to use up their whole years holiday is this not going to leave you short staffed for the rest of the year?
What industry are you in? - New job time - having worked in tourism/hospitality/visitor attractions my entire life I have never had nor have I ever enforced holiday bans in my team. At worst holidays may be limited to one week per person in peak times but this would be 3 months cover not what you're suggestions.
Your boss sounds like a Douche.
Get a new job, **** that guy!
Get a new job. Work to rule. eg Leave at 5 on the dot.
Legal yes but that's shite to bring it with as little notice as that. I bet there's a few come down with stomach bugs in the summer this year.
Your boss sounds like a total prick. I'd be out of there asap, unless of course he's paying me far more than I could get elsewhere.
If everyone else is leaving take the hint.
Seems rather discriminatory if boss bans everyone from taking summer leave, but allows themselves to take leave during the summer.
I am expected to work long hours, evenings, weekends, attend all of the trade shows, travel in the UK and abroad to meet clients including the client dinners/drinks etc.
My understanding is all of the above is work time including the travelling, you must be be working way above the EU work time regulation hours and unless you are extremely well paid I imagine you could easily be falling under minimum wage when dividing your salary by your typical hours.
... Sounds horrendous, run away, if you can!
I know it's easy for us to say "get out of there" but maybe finding an alternative isn't very easy. If you don't have the luxury of handing in your notice can you all get together and figure out a proposal which will mean employees get to take leave and business continues as normal?
Don't envy your situation at all especially if you have kids 🙁
I think I'd be suffering a bout of low mood for a couple of weeks in July.
They can implement an 11 month holiday ban if they want to (well, nearly 11 month).
The industry I work for makes it very tough to find an alternative around me without moving back into the commuting into London nightmare, or moving house to another part of the country which is off the cards due to Mrs MOC.
I don't have kids yet, but they are planned to be on the way next year, so it will become a problem for kids holidays in a few years time.
We have a new MD who started a few weeks ago with the intention of taking some of the strain off the company owner, I'm hoping he can bring some corrections to the way the company is run as he comes with experience of the way other companies are run.
Sounds to me like the boss needs to pay to get some more staff in to cover summer holiday absence. No one ever gets to their death bed and wishes they’d taken less holidays!
F that - life is to short to be constrained by that rubbish. In five or ten years you will look back and wonder where all your time went....on working rather than other more enjoyable things and holidays in rubbish weather.
No one ever died wishing they had worked longer hours!
Had that at a job interview I went to once.
Except it was the continental Europe style 30 days leave.
Yeah, but was expected to attend 3 international trade shows per year, and expected to work overtime in the N weeks leading up to each trade show.
So basically worked out that you could only apply for annual leave in the 2 weeks after each of the 3 shows.
I'm sure they can do it, but the boss must have been permanently recruiting engineers and sales staff who never do much more than a 6 month contract. 1 year of that, and you'd be broken.
I don’t have kids yet, but they are planned to be on the way next year, so it will become a problem for kids holidays in a few years time.
Have you thought about what your life will be like with only 20 days leave, once you have kids? You need to get a new job offer to use a leverage, and then march into your boss telling them you want more time off (even if unpaid) and to be allowed a reasonable proportion of that time off in the school holidays once the kids arrive. Get that into your contract. Having kids, and then afterwards considering how you're going to have a good life with them, is the wrong way around. With your current regime you, and they, will miss out. I've done this before with employers, you have to play hardball to get the time you need for a family life… and you will need that time.
Its a change to your terms and conditions thus not enforceable without either consultation with your union or with you individually. Management also need a good business reason to do this (which they probably have)
Having said that it's almost impossible to enforce with under two years service
You also really need to check your rights under the working time directive. I would bet you are in breach. 11 hrs off between working days, driving time is counted as work time etc
Join a union but also you might have to accept that it's the bosses way or the highway
IMHO the start of April to the start of September is wwaaayy more than summer, it's 5 months !!!
The retail sector usually do something similar to Chrimbo, but only a max of 2 months.
It’s not in the contract
You sure about that - not even a 'holidays to be taken at an agree time that does not interfere with the business needs of the company' or words to that effect? It would be unusual if it did not. It's pretty much universal in any cut and paste off the shelf employment contract.
But agreed that is an untenable long term situation and entirely unreasonable. A complete exemption for a short window and a maximum number of staff out for a larger window yes, but not a completely blocked out 5 months.
The long term loser will be the firm as turnover of staff will be high with all that entails with recruitment costs and efficiency drops as staff join and get up to speed.
What is the industry?
Time for a new job. Your boss sounds like a terrible person to work for.
Your boss sounds like the kind of person who can't wait till post brexit. Does he donate to the ERG by any chance?
I'd be getting another job.