[Closed] Nigel's off - again.

I must admit I read it in an article. Having posted, I thought I better look at it further, admittedly reversing the order might have been better! Frankly the whole process is so arcane, I find it difficult to reach any conclusion about it.

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Wrote a long missive, deleted it. Voted out, would do so again. I made my mind up months, if not years, ago that given the chance I'd vote out. The recent campaign was irrelevant for many out voters so why are we still bainging on about bit players like Nigel Farage. The out vote was more than the sum of it's (godawful in places) parts and to dismiss 17 million people using the terms some of you have seems politically naive at best.

joolsburger - I think that's what upsets/confuses a lot of remainers - the decision being made on what appears to be an emotional basis with no apparent (and clearly there will have been some but I've yet to see it articulated by many leavers beyond vague concepts of sovreignty) consideration for the economic and social impact a leave vote might have.

vague concepts of sovereignty

😆

Yup I get that and I have documented my reasons for leaving on another thread, they are not emotional. I won't rewrite that comment but I will say this, some leave voters are cocks and we know that, some remain voters are equally cocks and we know that. The majority on both sides are normal thinking people and to try and demonise one side because you don't agree with them is a shitty tactic.

The pragmatic economic choice is 100% to remain, maintaining the status quo is always safer. I disagree with your comment regarding social impact, social impact of the EU in some ways has been good for the UK especially its lower paid and unskilled workers. As a whole bloc taken in the round I don't accept that it has been good, look at both Greece and Spain who have lost a whole generation of young people to unemployment and strife. I think for many out voters the money was never the issue, the political accountability and social policy for 508 million people is. Despite our politicians being arseholes they are [u]our[/u] arseholes and we can get rid if required.
If this leads to massive political upheaval in the UK then so be it, it's about bloody time and I'm not sure too many disagree with that sentiment.

Get the log out of your own eye first and all that....

f this leads to massive political upheaval in the UK then so be it, it's about bloody time and I'm not sure too many disagree with that sentiment.

Swopping Cameron for May?

ernie - anyone who thinks a hereditary monarch with an unelected house of lords is any more accountable than an unelected part of the EU has vague concepts of sovereignty 🙂

Swopping Cameron for May?

Well bearing in mind that Cameron hasn't received anything remotely approaching the level of vilification which Thatcher received, despite being more right-wing than her, I can only conclude that it is probably because she was a woman.

With a woman back in charge of the Tories perhaps people can start hating them again properly.

I look forward to the chants of "Terri Terri Out" on future demos.

Well bearing in mind that Cameron hasn't received anything remotely approaching the level of vilification which Thatcher received, despite being more right-wing than her,

He hasn't actually done that much, to be vilified for (up until Brexit). We've just had a whole load of policies followed by rapid U turns and a Junior Doctor's strike. After 23 years out of office the Tories decided that the minute they got back in power, they'd just bicker amongst themselves....

He hasn't actually done that much, to be vilified for

The Tory MP in my neighbouring constituency begs to differ :

[url= http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/london-tory-mp-tells-backers-dont-mention-david-cameron-10110723.html ]London Conservative MP tells backers: 'Don't mention David Cameron' in letters of support[/url]

I can only conclude that it is probably because she was a woman.

Well I know how much importance you attach to yourself Junkyard but you won't be entirely surprised to learn that I didn't have you in mind when I made the comment.

You have already told me that you think David Cameron is more left-wing than Thatcher was, so I understand why you don't have a problem with him in the way you did with her.

Not sure i said that i thought i concluded that your view that he is more right wing is indeed an entirely reasonable one[ though starting from disagreeing with you/this view]. However dave is socially far to the left of thatcher what with foreign aid and gay marriage/rights. He is socially progressive she was not. I suspect you can argue it either way but its true that Dave is to the right of thatcher we have drifted so much to that side many of us. self included, had/have failed to realise this.

Yes I won't dispute that Cameron is more socially progressive in terms of gay right rights than Thatcher was. Apart from the fact that he comes from a younger generation than Thatcher he recognises the value of appealing to voters with more modern liberal views on the issue.

But on many other issues his governments have pursued an even more right-wing agenda than Thatcher. Examples off the top of my head, Thatcher was strongly opposed to the privatisation of Royal Mail, not Cameron; Thatcher said "the NHS is save in my hands" which in essence it was, the same can't be said of Cameron; Cameron treble tuition fees, there were no tuition fees under Thatcher; Cameron said that Thatcher's restrictions on trade unions didn't go far enough, so he introduced more; Cameron introduced the bedroom tax and benefit cap, no such thing existed under Thatcher; Cameron bombed countries which posed no threat to the UK; Cameron has relentlessly attacked the disabled, the disabled did quite well under Thatcher, primarily because she wanted them off the unemployed totals, and so on.

The Tories since the days of Thatcher have gone further to the right, they certainly haven't gone more to the left.

Slightly right of UKIP.....