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How the **** have we dragged Meghan Markle into the Nigel Farage thread?
Read the thread slowly? 💡
Edit : Try this..... Nigel Farage ➡️ bigotry ➡️ anti-woke voter backlash ➡️ highly privileged individuals who enjoy a quality of life most people can only dream of moaning about how tough life is for them.
Then you might start to understand what arseholes like Nigel Farage feed off and what is behind their growing political success.
progress-keeping up with the joneses-dismiss the bigotry-its alright, when im as rich and privileged as them i'll still be able to complain how tough life is for me-?
Excuse me ignorance, but how black is megan markle? She dont look black to me.What percentage is the cutoff line twixt black n white,? does it matter if yer a bit brown n yellow too?
Its depressing that such ignorant views as this crop up on STW, and depressing that someone that has access to all of the Internet would say such a stupid ****ing thing.
Spend one minute googling the treatment Meghan Markle received from the likes of the Daily Mail, or even better speak to literally anyone with dual heritage about their lived experience.
Im not going to call you an ignorant idiot, you're clearly reacting to whatever your curated algorithms are feeding you...and for that I can only feel pity for you.
Sure at some point she might have experienced negativity specifically because she is apparently a black woman but she has hardly had a hard life, nor will she, the all-important issue is class and wealth.
This is why affluent middle-class liberals focus so much on grammar bollocks, especially feminists, its about the nearest many can get to moan about anything.
You better get some plaster to fill those white-male-privilege cracks 😆
Excuse me ignorance, but how black is megan markle? She dont look black to me.What percentage is the cutoff line twixt black n white,? does it matter if yer a bit brown n yellow too?
Its depressing that such ignorant views as this crop up on STW, and depressing that someone that has access to all of the Internet would say such a stupid ****ing thing.
Spend one minute googling the treatment Meghan Markle received from the likes of the Daily Mail, or even better speak to literally anyone with dual heritage about their lived experience.
Im not going to call you an ignorant idiot, you're clearly reacting to whatever your curated algorithms are feeding you...and for that I can only feel pity for you.
whats the matter with you?
not being an avid daily mail reader, she still looks white to me
youre barking up the wrong tree
Who said that "a rich black person cant be a victim of racism"?
You did
Granted it isn't always easy for them to achieve the correct class status but when they have they are no longer victims
There
A nice bit of selective quoting so that you can pretend that you don't know exactly what I'm saying! 🤣
And it is precisely that sort of disingenuous attitude by middle-class liberals which benefits Nigel Farage so much.
I am very obviously referring to being the victim of a society because of their colour or sex, not that they can't be on the recieving end of racist or misogynist abuse.
Tell voters that black and female billionaires who earn many times more than their own salaries that they should be seen as victims and most will remain as unconvinced as I am.
The all important issue is class. If you have power and wealth you are not a victim of our society. Which is precisely why a black woman like Kemi Badenoch is so determined to maintain the privilege structures which exist in our very unequal society.
Tell voters that black and female billionaires who earn many times more than their own salaries that they should be seen as victims and most will remain as unconvinced as I am.
Tell voters a lot of stuff and they will remain unconvinced. It doesn’t mean they are right. That’s why Starmer is saying and doing a lot of the stuff he is at the moment. He chasing the Overton window as it lurches to the right in fear of losing voters. I don’t think anyone should be a billionaire and I’m not defending them but I don’t think they are wholly immune to the impact of discrimination.
The all important issue is class. If you have power and wealth you are not a victim of our society. Which is precisely why a black woman like Kemi Badenoch is so determined to maintain the privilege structures which exist in our very unequal society.
Given that racism is entrenched in our society, surely you can still be a victim of our society if you are powerful and black (or female). It’s just that your power and wealth may compensate or protect you to some degree, possibly considerably, but you may well remain more vulnerable.
Class struggle may well be important, but power and wealth are not the only things that matter. Racism is multifaceted and pervasive.
On my (rare these days) drive into the office this morning it is apparent that some of the patriots who were shinning up lampposts in August didn't check the colourfastness of their flags. There are several crosses of St George now in bright pink along the roadside. Magnificently camp, but not the effect I think the original patriots were after.
🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈
As well as the wealth of some Jews in Nazi Germany not protecting them from racism, there are plenty of other examples of wealth not protecting people when racist extremism becomes mainstream. Have a read about Tulsa for example…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsa_race_massacre
Or Uganda under Idi Amin.
Wow, has there ever been a better example of Godwin's law of Nazi analogies?!?!
Adolf Hitler was not Jewish, Kemi Badenoch is definitely black. The racism we are talking about that she might be exposed to (and middle-class liberals get their knickers in a twist over) is not about being sent to the gas chamber, it's stuff like her being called a coloured person instead of person of colour. A ridiculous state of affairs which a great deal of people quite rightly dismiss as bollocks.
https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-54888197
The FA boss had used the term "coloured footballers" as he spoke to MPs about diversity and racial abuse against black players.
If you can't understand that people like Nigel Farage exploits that sort of stuff for political mileage then it helps to explain why he has gone so far and why he is likely to be UK Prime Minister in 4 years time.
Wake up!
being called a coloured person instead of person of colour
You're a bit obsessed about this. And you're not ignorant.. you must know why "coloured person" is problematic in the UK and USA.
Absolutely I know why "coloured person" is problematic in the UK and USA. It is because the term offends affluent middle-class liberals.
I also know that it is widely used without any racist intent whatsoever and was once considered to be a polite way to describe a black person even by middle-class liberals.
If I am "obsessed" by it then it is because it's epitomises to disconnect between middle class liberals and ordinary people, and the obvious stupidity of it all benefits demagogues like Nigel Farage.
Let's be honest - he's going to get in mostly due to Kier, the Express & Mail, not because the liberal middle classes are debating the correct term for black people.
Absolutely I know why "coloured person" is problematic in the UK and USA. It is because the term offends affluent middle-class liberals.
I'm sorry, you posted that BBC article explaining why "coloured" was controversial, and then you say it's only problematic for affluent middle class liberals?
I'm struggling to follow this.
I guess that the class warriors who designed Farage's Breaking Point poster just forgot to include blonde, white potential immigrants from Scandinavia in their imagery, then?
Let's be honest - he's going to get in mostly due to Kier, the Express & Mail, not because the liberal middle classes are debating the correct term for black people.
Bang on the money!
It is precisely because of this woke obsession by the chattering classes, whilst ignoring real issues that affect the masses, that helps people like Nigel Farage so much.
If more people in the Labour Party understood that obvious fact we would be in a very different political situation today.
I thought it was black people who decided their preference for being referred to as black rather than coloured.
How is peoples stubbornness to remain ignorant the fault of people discussing it?
Or is the mechanism somewhat similar to masturbation and the death of angels: each time a white middle class group discusses racism, a racist is created?
woke obsession by the chattering classes
Yawn.
I'm pretty sure that not being able to call someone a **** isn't what's holding back working class emancipation. Far from it. I'd be happy to argue (if I had the time) that the "fight back against political correctness" goes hand in hand with getting working class people to support billionaires in their multifaceted efforts to roll back workers rights and protect the wealth and freedom to operate of the very wealthy.
If more people in the Labour Party understood that obvious fact we would be in a very different political situation today.
Of course we wouldn't. The fact you have backed yourself into a corner over the coloured people thing has no bearing on Labour's problems. Labour problems are because they are not offering anything, evidenced by the fact there are in power and people can see that whereas Farage is offering something (not sure what but immigrants are a big part of it) that appeals to some people.
Likewise, Polanski is offering something that appeals to people (me included) which is why people are leaning towards Green party more than before.
Nige has just given a speech to announce what he’s laughably referring to as policies. As usual, that didn’t involve any actual policies, just his usual tick list of things he thinks are wrong with the country that will all be magically fixed by him being in Number 10.
Apparently the main problem- other than the brown people coming here - is that “the opportunities presented by Brexit have been squandered”
As usual, no detail as to what those opportunities actually are. He didn’t list the 4% hit to our GDP as one of his marvelous opportunities, funnily enough
woke obsession by the chattering classes
Yawn.
What's the yawning for, I thought the whole point of being woke was that you are awake?? 😉
Apparently so awake that you make a comparison between what I am talking about, ie woke nonsense such as claims of misogyny when someone says chairman instead of "chairperson", and the Nazis persecution of Jews!
The fact you have backed yourself into a corner over.....
What on earth are you talking about, what "corner"? I have an opinion which you don't apparently agree with, there are no corners involved.
I stated yesterday that I consider StW to be "woke grand central" so I don't expect my opinion to be widely shared on here. Although it is shared with much of the population. Which is why the likes of Nigel Farage exploit it to undermine the struggles against real racism, misogyny, and homophobia. As well as other stuff such as islamophobia.
My neighbour, a Dutch expat, used to call me woke as an insult, I'm pretty sure he doen't really know what it means or where it came from. A bit like you, Ernie, which part of wokeness are you against? My neighbour twigged that I was taking it as a compliment and now calls me his "socialist neighbour" which I also take as a compliment. What are the elements of wokeness that aren't real issues that affect the masses, Ernie? Woke started with racism, gender equality and social justice and has expanded to include:
Sexism
Anti manosphere
Me too
Anti climatic denial
Anti rewriting history
Anti cuts to public services
Anti police brutality
etc. etc.
All good stuff to the affluent chattering class I'm a part off. I'll vote for it.
As for the word "black", I was chatting to some other new neighbours so in French. They said they thought their daughter knew my son and described her "*nom* est une Black qui travaille... ." 'Black' used in French by the adoptive parents of a black, that's good enough for me to assume it's not going to offend.
What on earth are you talking about, what "corner"? I have an opinion which you don't apparently agree with, there are no corners involved.
Yeah, sure.
Ernie, which part of wokeness are you against?
Well I have made it as crystal clear as I can possibly make it, if you still don't understand I can only put it down to my limited vocabulary as a poorly educated non-member of chattering classes 🙂
But here's a clue, because some people seem quite confused, it has nothing to do with opposition to sending Jews to the gas chambers, that's not the woke nonsense that I am talking about 💡
Anyway time to move on....... Farage is currently screwing up Reform's chances by opening his mouth and attempted to talk about policies. So far today I believe that he has potentially alienated both pensioners and young people, that's a great start!
I stated yesterday that I consider StW to be "woke grand central" so I don't expect my opinion to be widely shared on here. Although it is shared with much of the population. Which is why the likes of Nigel Farage exploit it to undermine the struggles against real racism, misogyny, and homophobia. As well as other stuff such as islamophobia.
Much of the population may well share your distaste for wokeness… but much of the population’s distaste for wokeness must have its roots in opinions that you don’t share… otherwise Farage wouldn’t be able to exploit them?
Anyway time to move on....... Farage is currently screwing up Reform's chances by opening his mouth and attempted to talk about policies. So far today I believe that he has potentially alienated both pensioners and young people, that's a great start!
I think that is where Reform will start to lose their current popularity. When Farage actually has to present policy or is pushed for answers he gets stroppy fast and easily caught out. There needs to be much more of that which will hopefully happen the closer we get to an election. It will make a lot of those responding in polls that they would vote Reform to think twice/vote elsewhere but many Reform voters won't take any notice of it - how many are the former though?
It's interesting that they're moving away from the "Liz Truss was right" economic thinking to something more "mainstream"... but note that they've excluded rich landowners from the "no immediate tax cuts" line... they're up for immediately returning to the hereditary ownership of Britain as a sacrosanct tax free birthright. They're on "your" side though... honest.
how many are the former though?
Hard to quantify, but YouGov have had a good go at identifying different types of voters expressing support for Reform, and how "sticky" they might be...
https://www.bestforbritain.org/decoding-populism-who-are-reform-uk-voters
poorly-educated non-member of chattering classes
You've got nearly as many posts as me in half the time which isn't bad for a hard-working carpenter (as apposed to skiving IT bod), and your spelling and grammar reeks education. 😉 Remind me, who were you pre 2019? 😛 And more seriously, I really haven't understood which elements of woke/wokeness you don't like. It seems to me that the far left and far right both hate woke as much as they hate each other and for the same reasons.
There needs to be much more of that which will hopefully happen the closer we get to an election.
Yup, and much more scrutiny of how Reform councillors are performing throughout the country. As a party which wants to present itself to voters as a serious party of government I am sure that they will want to prove their political prowess through the behaviour of their newly elected councillors!
It will make a lot of those responding in polls that they would vote Reform to think twice/vote elsewhere but many Reform voters won't take any notice of it - how many are the former though?
Most of those currently being polled who say they would vote Reform now did not vote Reform in the general election 15 months ago, so I wouldn't want to overemphasise the loyalty of their voters.
Reform are doing extremely well at the present though, the last six opinion polls have all put Reform's lead in double figures which is unprecedented. And which suggests that their support is becoming more established and entrenched.
Plus it suggests that nothing that Labour, the Tories, or the LibDems, are doing is working. The only party which appears to be having any success attracting disaffected mainstream voters apart from Reform are the Greens. Their significantly increased support also now seems to be firmly established.
And more seriously, I really haven't understood which elements of woke/wokeness you don't like.
I have repeatedly given a couple of examples of exactly what I mean, but okay one last time......... calling someone a racist for saying coloured people instead of people of colour (yes it does happen) and some feminist who earns ten times the average wage moaning that her life has been blighted by being called a chairman instead of chairperson, that sort of nonsense.
I really can't make it any clearer than that. But please feel free to disagree with me and claim that I am as bad as the Nazis 🙂
There will always be gutter press highlighted anecdotes to distract, Ernie. I don't consider either of those examples as justification to not like woke. They're in the banned bendy bananas justification to not like the EU category. Just petty picky noise to distract from the massive upsides to a woke society. If that's your public justification for not liking woke then your understanding is somewhat superficial or you have real reasons you'd rather not reveal.
I fail to see the problem with a woman not wishing to be called chairman, though I'm a little confused by actresses wishing to be called actors, especially in France where there's gender difference for many professions. And it's not a question of how much she earns. From the tone of your post you seem to begrudge/resent a woman earning 10 times the average wage and being a chairperson at all. Which is what woke is really about in this context - equal pay and conditions for men and women etc. with the same ease of reaching higher ranks based on ability whether male or female. "Chairman" is part of the bias in society , it assumes the role will be filled by a man, and it usually is. That needs to change and the fact I say it does is a small part of what makes me identify as woke.
As for coloured people/people of colour/Black/Asian, I'm not going to use one that I know will offend when there's one that won't but I'm not going to be easily offended either. I think you're taking STW levels of 'sensitivity' as representative of woke when it isn't. It's just STW pedantary-pile-on-dickery and nothing to do with being woke - which the pile-oners often aren't.
Much of the population may well share your distaste for wokeness… but much of the population’s distaste for wokeness must have its roots in opinions that you don’t share… otherwise Farage wouldn’t be able to exploit them?
The inconvenient truth.
Reform are doing extremely well at the present though, the last six opinion polls have all put Reform's lead in double figures which is unprecedented. And which suggests that their support is becoming more established and entrenched.
Given their penchant for opiinion manipluation via online social media platforms, do we know how the current polling is being carried out? Is it possible (donning my tin foil hat here) that the same bots that infect Twitter etc have started to manipulate polls?
Cos if you are voting for anyone else other than Reform & you see them having such a large lead, it might encourage you to stay at home rather than go out to vote.
I have no evidence for any of this, just thinking about how a relatively small untested party can suddenly be at the forefront of UK politics.
It's interesting that they're moving away from the "Liz Truss was right" economic thinking to something more "mainstream"
Listening to Nige’s economically illiterate blathering earlier, I wouldn’t say that they’ve moved too far from the mad world of Truss. It still all seems to revolve around further deregulation particularly for the financial sector (what could possibly go wrong with that, eh?), privatisation and massive tax cuts for the better off (non-doms etc), presumably funded by borrowing.
I wonder if he’d have any more luck with his pie-in-the-sky nonsense with those socialist revolutionaries at the Bank of England, and the wokerati of the bond markets, who did for Lizzie?
Is it possible (donning my tin foil hat here) that the same bots that infect Twitter etc have started to manipulate polls?
Not the polls that people have been quoting on this forum from reputable polling companies. When newspapers do their own polls... yes... but everyone just ignores those. You can be quite sure that real people are saying they'll vote Reform to the pollsters at a rate that is being reported by those pollsters. The bots are only effecting polls in that they are manipulating real people who have their opinions shaped by them... and that effect is likely to be across the population as a whole, it would be very hard to target those polled without serious data protection failures at all the polling companies.
As for coloured people/people of colour/Black/Asian, I'm not going to use one that I know will offend when there's one that won't but I'm not going to be easily offended either. I think you're taking STW levels of 'sensitivity' as representative of woke when it isn't.
For someone who repeatedly asks me to explain what I mean it is quite extraordinary how little attention you pay to what I actually write. You appear to be arguing with what you think I should be saying rather than what I am actually saying.
A person who uses the term "coloured person" is considered racist (by the woke brigade) and yet someone who uses the term "person of colour" is considered completely innocent. That's the woke nonsense I am talking about, ie, using such ridiculous parameters to accuse someone of racism. I know quite a few racists and they don't tend to use the term coloured person, as you might imagine. And it is significantly counterproductive btw, just like the zionist liberal use of the term anti-semitism. It helps to let genuine racists off the hook.
Whatever the original definition of woke was a hundred years ago this is what it is widely seen to mean now in the UK in 2025. For the record I don't use either terms.
And getting back to Nigel Farage, there is little doubt that a Reform-Tory government in less than 4 years time will have an anti-woke agenda in the same way as the Trump administration has. Like Trump Farage/Reform will use the more absurd aspects of wokeism to justify passing legislation which strips away protection from racism, misogyny, homophobia, etc, and of course the withdrawal from the European Convention on Human Rights.
Of course it won't be solely down to the permanently offended self-righteous grammar police but there is little doubt imo that they will have helped him.
So you're against wokeism because you think it enables Trump to be racist misogynistic and homophobic, Ernie. And you consider some aspects of wokeism "absurd".
Interesting.
You are in favour of Brexit and are now worried about the UK withdrawing from the European Convention on Human Rights.
Interesting.
Can you vprovide a few case studies evidencing your complaints about the woke please?
The majority of the anti-woke stuff is not pushback against middle aged hand-wringers who get their knickers in a twist over the term chairman, chairwoman, chairperson or chair. That is a tiny part of it.
The majority comes from people who quite simply don't want to have to pretend to be nice to (or about) other people anymore.
You are in favour of Brexit and are now worried about the UK withdrawing from the European Convention on Human Rights.
Interesting.
And what I find interesting is that you seem to be suggesting that opposition to the EU somehow means opposition to the ECHR, Nigel Farage and Kemi Badenoch would be pleased to hear you say that ! 🙂
A country does not need to be a member of the EU to respect human rights, and a country doesn't necessarily have to leave the EU to abandon the protection afforded by the ECHR.
The hard-right in the UK have for a long time tried to deliberately confuse people by suggesting that the two separate and unconnected institutions were somehow linked, now here is an example of the soft-left doing exactly the same.
Interesting.
The majority comes from people who quite simply don't want to have to pretend to be nice to (or about) other people anymore.
Indeed. After the toxicity of the Brexit campaign and Farage in particular, June 2016 was effectively the green light to give up pretending you’re not a racist. And since racism was given the tacit nod, everything else has been deemed fair game too.
In the 9 years since the vote, the discourse has totally changed in this country. Very much for the worse. And this corrosive *%#* has an awful lot to answer for. He’s like a cancer!
I dunno about anyone else, but when I hear someone using the term 'woke' without irony it only outs them as idiots.
I totally agree how the situation has deteriorated in recent years with regards to the growing confidence of racists and the far-right, but for clarity firstly that offensive and totally unrepresented poster (it had bugger all to do with the UK and deliberately only featured young men) was produced by UKIP not the official Leave campaign.
And secondly that exact same photograph was used by the Hungarian government, which is perfectly happy to remain in the EU, to make the same racist anti-migrant points.
Politicians using that photograph in a totally misleading way to peddle racism doesn't necessarily tell you whether or not they support the EU membership, only really that they are racist demagogues.
Hungarian government rehashes UKIP anti-migrant poster in new ad | Euronews https://www.euronews.com/2018/03/28/hungary-government-s-new-anti-immigration-ad-copies-ukip-s-controversial-anti-migrant-post