[Closed] NHS and America

Also sorry to hear about your problems finbar. But do you think it's the concept of social healthcare, its execution, or individuals at that hospital that are to blame? (honest question about your experience, not rhetoric)

Private Healthcare is a 'choice' - you don't have to pay into it if you don't want to. You made the choice, either stop paying or stop whining.

Let me put into context why I "have" to pay for Health Insurance to supplement the sub-standard care through the NHS...I needed an eye exam at the eye hospital...>12 month wait..."Oh, said I", "I have private health cover"...and was given the SAME specialist's name, rang his PA and got an appointment FOR THE NEXT MORNING.

Does everyone you disagree with "whine" ? 🙄

conversely the treatment my mother received from the NHS was 2nd to none, and when she tried private treatment (via HealthCare at home) it was diabolical (dirty environment, nurse eating a sandwich whilst doing injections etc). Her NHS treatment was outstanding.

If she was in the US my parents would have been screwed, as each 3 month course of drugs was around 30K excluding, scans, time with specialists etc.

Seems to be that people who haven't used the NHS, but have read about in the redtops, moan about how terrible it is. Whereas people who have actually used it, have nothing but praise for it.

Ok I do have to say my aunt has been ill for a very long time and can't speak highly enough about the NHS. She's more of an expert on these matters than I ever hope to be.

thats the point, if she lived in the states and didn't have health insurance she would have been stabilized, and that would be it ....

Effectively your life expectancy depends on your credit rating, which IMHO is immoral and fundamentally wrong. Why should someones financial worth determine if they live or die.

PMSL this am watching the cobblers being spouted by Yanks on breakfast am.

One item in particular being a guy wabbling on about how British teeth are all bad due to the NHS.......... obviously blissfully unaware that this is the private bit that most people have to go private for.

The basic bottom line is that the main beneficiaries of this will be the black and hispanic poor. Obviously not acceptable, as clearly lack of health provision is just another social exclusion mechanism, leading to white supremacy.

PS Addendum : Likewise eye care interestingly!

Some remarkable stuff posted so far in true STW style by people who have zero clue about the US healthcare system.

I've worked for one of the top 5 US health insurers for the last six years so I'm pretty clued up on the situation. Some points worth addressing...

1 - "Healthcare should not be for profit."

It isn't. Health insurers underwrite healthcare plans with tiny profit margins.

2 - "about $12,000/annum for a family of 4 with no history"

A premium for a family of four will probably be double that

3 - "As I said, most people's insurance only goes so far. So you get the best cover etc (suposedly) only up to a certian point then you either shell out, go without or try and cut your own costs."

Insurers are not charities. If you insured your Ferrari but told the insurer it was only Lada, you wouldn't get the insurer paying out the value of a Ferrari following a crash.

4 - "Also, the hospitals etc make money for the treatment they do so you get tons of unnecessary treatments and tests thrown at you."

Nothing to do with money. It's called "defensive medicine". Given the litigious nature of Americans, their doctors try to minimise the risk of a lawsuit by making sure they've covered every base.

5 - "not renowned for his unbiased film making, but Michael Moore's 'Sicko' does a pretty good job of highlighting how 5hite their system is and contrasting it with other country's."

Loony propaganda

6 - "Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control."

How can you have a right to something when you contribute absolutely nothing?

[i]Awful story finbar, sorry to hear that.

which area ? [/i]

[i]Also sorry to hear about your problems finbar. But do you think it's the concept of social healthcare, its execution, or individuals at that hospital that are to blame? (honest question about your experience, not rhetoric)[/i]

Thank you. Its Nottingham/Derbyshire. I would like to transfer her care to Sheffield as i understand Weston Park Cancer unit is very good, but she's so totally disillusioned with it all she can't be bothered with the fuss.

My feeling is the NHS is a wonderful idea, but it doesn't work in practice. Too bloated, not enough communication. Its a simplistic and selfish view i know but personally i would rather have a reduced tax burden and choose a private healthcare provider.

How can you have a right to something when you contribute absolutely nothing?

According to the 1948 General Assembly of the United Nations the answer is 'yes' you can.

1 - "Healthcare should not be for profit."

It isn't. Health insurers underwrite healthcare plans with tiny profit margins.

and large US firms aren't experts in hiding profits, that you have to pay tax on .....

PMSL this am watching the cobblers being spouted by Yanks on breakfast am.

Last week at work we had a satellite feed bound for the US of an American interviewer stopping folks in the streets [London I think] & asking them what they thought of the NHS
It was the raw feed & if they're looking for negative views for the broadcast there's going to be an awful lot of it ending up on the - virtual - cutting room floor

My feeling is the NHS is a wonderful idea, but it doesn't work in practice. Too bloated, not enough communication. Its a simplistic and selfish view i know but personally i would rather have a reduced tax burden and choose a private healthcare provider.

Private healthcare is fine for eyesight, tennis elbow etc, however if you get really sick they are pretty useless and just refer you back into the NHS.

So if the NHS was scrapped, your premium would be much much higher, and pretty much unaffordable once you got into the at risk age brackets/groups.

Given the litigious nature of Americans, their doctors try to minimise the risk of a lawsuit by making sure they've covered every base.

And who takes a massive proportion of the stupid lawsuits in the USA - oh yes, health insurance companies, suing other people's insurance companies / suing hospitals / suing doctors in order to avoid paying for treatments when someone has an accident or when something goes wrong.

How can you have a right to something when you contribute absolutely nothing?

Blimey - do you really believe that we shouldn't look after poor / elderly / terminally ill people? That we should live in a world a bit like Logan's Run, where once people have retired or get ill, we'd just let them die?

My feeling is the NHS is a wonderful idea, but it doesn't work in practice. Too bloated, not enough communication. Its a simplistic and selfish view i know but personally i would rather have a reduced tax burden and choose a private healthcare provider.

But if you could choose a private healthcare provider, you'd spend way more money, receive on average worse healthcare and be more likely to die early. That's just really obviously supported by the statistics if you look at the countries with private systems. Even rich people in the USA don't have as good outcomes as similar people in the UK.

Joe

boardin bob your arguments are pretty weak

1 are you trying to tell me that the us medical insurance companies arent out to make money

2 what about the [u]47million[/u] americans with no insurance

3 so the poorer you are the worse treatment you will receive, - wonderful

4 medicine by covering your ass?!?

5 prove it

6 what human beings having a right to being treated humanely, what an outlandish idea

1 are you trying to tell me that the us medical insurance companies arent out to make money

2 what about the 47million americans with no insurance

3 so the poorer you are the worse treatment you will receive, - wonderful

4 medicine by covering your ass?!?

5 prove it

6 what human beings having a right to being treated humanely, what an outlandish idea

1 - Where did I say they didn't make profits?

2 - What about them?

3 - Yes

4 - Yes

5 - Prove what?

6 - Yes

Something on R4 yesterday - America spends 17% of their GDP on healthcare, we spend 8.2%

Edit also I wonder what % of American healthcare spend is soaked up by the fat cats of and admin in the insurance companies

oh yeah, funny fact...

just like we think (!) they're all fat/stupid etc, they think we all have "English Teeth"

aren't stereotypes great ?

and usually pretty accurate, hence being a stereotype.

enft -
Have you asserted your right to a different hospital/doctor/specialist etc?

You have chosen to go down the private healthcare route rather than the NHS system, you made that choice for whatever reason you have not been forced to cough up money.

The NHS is not perfect by any means but i have had many operations for CMT in my younger days - procedures that would effectively mean i was uninsurable due to cost whilst i was in employment.
I have also this last week seen an emergency dentist at no cost, finding an NHS dental practice is another matter however.

finding an NHS dental practice is another matter however.

Plenty of those around these days

C'mon folks.

It's survival of the richest and fittest.

Uplink - the nearest NHS practice that is actually taking patients on is over 10 miles away in another town.

I don't drive BTW, don't fancy cycling back home with the after-effects of anesthesia from a root canal surgery!

[i]C'mon folks.

It's survival of the richest and fittest. [/i]

are you trolling?

or do you really think that a person who cant afford insurance thats got cancer/ disabled/ a broken arm/ diahorea has less right to treatment than someone with the means to pay for it

How can you have a right to something when you contribute absolutely nothing?

If you have to ask that question you fundamentally dont get it do you? Which is I suppose how the Americans must view it. I suppose that is the nub that I just cant understand.

[i]But if you could choose a private healthcare provider, you'd spend way more money, receive on average worse healthcare and be more likely to die early.
[/i]

I'm too p1ssed off to care about averages. I'll refer you back to my earlier post: it would be hard to recieve worse healthcare than that.

It's survival of the richest and fittest.

....you're not allowed to actually want to hurt people on here are you?

I'll refer you back to my earlier post: it would be hard to recieve worse healthcare than that.

Well after experiencing HealthCare at Home, I have to disagree with this comment.

"It's survival of the richest and fittest."

are you trolling?

I suspect that BoardinBob is indeed trolling. But only because he realises what is a uniquely American attitude towards healthcare, is completely indefensible. And therefore the best he can realistically expect, is simply to wind people up.

I have to say that for me personally, BoardinBob's contributions to this thread have been the most constructive and useful. Because if ever there was any doubt that the advocates of 'US style free-market healthcare' are completely wrong, then surely BoardinBob has dispelled any such doubts.

Broke my arm over there falling down a mountain few years back - cost me over 500 dollars efore they would even look at me? Frightening if you don't have 500 dollars!

The point of the NHS was that all society contributes to provide treatment for all - yes it's going through transition as medicine has changed from 10 years ago and i imagine it will be a while before it settles.

What we need to do over here is make those that currently free load on the system pay - its simple too many people don't contribute whether they be tax avoiding pikeys or health tourists. No payee taxes no free healthcare - yes there will always be exceptions. don't think it's too harsh.If your employed go be a porter in a hospital or clean the toilets etc - everyone can ontribute someway!!

We spend less, yet achieve a better standard of healthcare than the US. I'm afraid that it's the usual unholy alliance of the selfish and special interests acting as you would expect.

I'm too p1ssed off to care about averages. I'll refer you back to my earlier post: it would be hard to recieve worse healthcare than that.

Yeah, things get screwed up in the NHS, and that is rubbish.

But if it wasn't for the NHS, unless you were pretty rich, you quite likely could not afford multiple cancer treatments, so it'd go untreated, particularly likely if you were old and retired.

Joe

having been on the receving end of both system give me the good old nhs anytime there is a good reason why its called dumbfu*kistan(usa) 😀

And this is the guy who the Maggie Thatcher loving punters on here were getting all excited about and wetting their pants over - because of his recent speech in the European Parliament.

Obviously I let myself get too wound up by the toryboys sometimes, but this was my first thought when I heard his piece on the radio yesterday; as well as the piece from the guy who said the advertisement makers completely misrepresented him in the final cut of the ad. Hannan was an embarrassment to his country that day in the European parliament and to top it off, he made a complete idiot of himself again yesterday.

To say he is self-aggrandising is so massive an understatement. He is exactly the type of prick that would let any of us unable to afford private medicine rot in the gutter....and give enfht a tax break for having private medical cover. I assume when or if you have kids and send them to a private school, you'll be wanting a tax break for that too?

The next time a murkin spouts on about cancer survival rates, just ask him or her what the survival rates are in the afro-american and hispanic populations. Ask him or her who's looking after the residents of New Orleans with the massive healthcare problems since Hurricane Katrina.

I was diagnosed with an inguinal hernia late last year by my GP. I was then sent a letter a week later telling me how I could choose between five different hospitals to see a specialist. I logged in and saw when I could book the appointment and who I would see. The specialist saw me within a couple of weeks and I was offered a variety of different operation slots, the soonest of which would have been within twelve weeks of walking into my GP's surgery. Not bad for a not very serious lump in my groin. You Brits don't realise how good things are here sometimes.

To say he is self-aggrandising is so massive an understatement. He is exactly the type of prick that would let any of us unable to afford private medicine rot in the gutter....and give enfht a tax break for having private medical cover.

With Hannan, it's about money, then class. He doesn't see the point of the NHS because he's never had to use it and being of enfht's ilk (self interested)thinks the money should be back in his pocket and "individuals" should take out private cover. Of course a large amount of people couldn't afford private health care so get left to rot in the gutter. Its not as if he gives a ****. Thats where class comes in.

Hannan is a product of the Thatcher years, a greedy self-centered individual which this country can do without, but ultimately it's the individuals in this country that have collectively realised that Hannans views among others would mean an American style system would take the place of the NHS, so have collectively made it one of the most important political issues when it comes to voting. Thats a bit of socialism in action.

The main issues with the NHS IMO ? IME are:

Demoralised overworked shop floor workforce.

Inadequate and poor quality management ( we need more and better skilled and trained managers)

Political interference

I would be greatly in favour of the right to opt out of the NHS. Mainly for ther Boardingbobs and enfht's of this world and with absolutely no right to opt back in, once they realise what a cock they have been.

Even the chinless wonder admits to that one, which he does a nice spin on where he wabbles on about how his now sadly dead son was a beneficiary of the NHS.... Glibly and dare I say somewhat disingeniously wafting past the fact that there is NO WAY in this world he could have got appropriate cover to care for his diasabled at birth child without having to pay pro-rate for the care he received. Whilst Daddy probably could have afforded to have paid for it he chose a combination of NHS for the big bills and private for the comfy bits just like most of the private health care ****wits do, whilst moaning about how they get sod all out of the NHS!!

Twunts frankly.

i totaly agree G, cameron has to be very very careful what he says about this
even if his natural political leaning would be toward some of the capitalist eugenics crap spouted here he knows he cant be too 'conservative'

What worries me is a move towards needing private health care over here, I could maybe afford it but wouldnt be able to get covered for my existing hip problems which would mean any reforms (which I would be against) would have to be handled very carefully.

I used to have medical cover as part of my job I got made redundant and my free private health insurance finished on the spot.

2 months later my partner who was also covered by the private health insurance started having agonising pains in her stomach the nasty commie NHS quickly diagnosed and treated a gall stone.

I wonder what would have happened to her if we had been in the USA with no private health insurance surviving on the minimum wage. I dont know how much it would have cost cash for 2 consultations an endoscopy key hole surgery and follow up care but I bet I couldnt have afforded it.

I'd be looking at the state of American education rather than healthcare; the stupids seem to be in the ascendant.

(That means there are more stupids than there were before, just in case there are any of them reading)

[img] [/img]

I have often commented on the NHS in recent months as the missus has been long term poorly.

There have been good times and bad, but in general the wife would probably not be around if we lived in the states.

she has an immune deficiency (amongst other things) and regularly spks to americans in a similar boat on various forums.

they get less tests and blood works because of the cost even tho they are fully insured, they just dont receive as good care when a bottle of keovig costs £2k a time.... the missus has £2K every fortnight on the nhs free.

Healthcare should be free for all and fairplay to obama, he has an uphill struggle me thinks

what comes through to me the most in this thread are the prices of treatment. I get the staff and hospital running expenses but it seems to be it's mostly the medicine. Why is it so much? That's probably another thread to be honest.

Healthcare should be free for all

1 - "Healthcare should not be for profit."

It isn't. Health insurers underwrite healthcare plans with tiny profit margins.

Brilliant
It's not about profit, it just actually is
Tesco have low profit margins per unit sale, so they're not there for the profit, they're actually Britain's biggest charity shop

I would have read the rest of your post, but there's just so much stupidity I can take in one go