[Closed] NEW Teachers pay.. one for TJ

ill-informed knockers

What gets me about teachers, the police the NHS etc, is that they are ill-informed about the reality of working life for most of the UK. They see their roles as being especially difficult and hard, a viewpoint frequently re-enforced by government policy labelling them as key workers. They need to open their eyes, for a big portion of society working conditions and life quality has been gradually getting worse since the 80's, they are just part of it.

MSP have you ever been a teacher? Most teachers have done other things in my experience, of the 8 science teachers I work with currently only two havent had other careers.

MSP - Member

ill-informed knockers

What gets me about teachers, the police the NHS etc, is that they are ill-informed about the reality of working life for most of the UK. They see their roles as being especially difficult and hard, a viewpoint frequently re-enforced by government policy labelling them as key workers. They need to open their eyes, for a big portion of society working conditions and life quality has been gradually getting worse since the 80's, they are just part of it.

Posted 19 minutes ago # Report-Post

Well said that man,the 3 types of job are so insular and so well protected by the unions or governmnet that they just float above redundancy, sacking, and being incompetent, they go on about how hard they work, yet get paid well, and finally it was THERE career choice, not some person working in an office who is now going to tell unemployed what job they need to do and how to get it , all as part of the new governmnet scheme to create profits for large companies, ofering back to work advice.

Are the proposals that a student will achieve QTS before completing their course? If so, how, as they won't have achieved the requirements?

Any other job with a natioanlly recognised qualification (nursing as an example) couldn't function in this manner, besides what happens when those north of the border get £10K for their last year in university and then get a job working south of the border, would their pay still be halved or would they earn £30k in two years, one of which was while they completed their training.

In schools we teach, amongst other things, about conditions of service, standards of living, in/security at work, anti-union legislation, the widening health and wealth gap etc etc. We are acutely aware of these things. Do you really think workers in the state sector are protected from speed-ups, redundancies, pay cuts, pension cuts? Ever thought of taking an interest in current affairs?

My brother is a teacher, he used to be a comms engineer, but he finds the work life balance of being a teacher is better than his previous career, he is also better paid now, so he doesn't complain about his lot. My mother was also a teacher, but times have changed since then, I think it really was a relatively easy job back then.

I don't believe that teaching is an easy life, but I also don't believe its any harder a life than many other jobs, its the belief from within the profession that it is that I find quite ill informed.

especially the police, they swan about in their fast cars, eating do-nuts, thrashing innocent young kids
sack em all i say , and let us take care of ourselves.how hard can it be to stop a street robber

and finally it was THERE career choice

their

Oh and relatively speaking teaching isn't a well paid profession when compared with other graduate professions such as Doctors and Lawyers. I get paid significantly more than my parents, both of whom were teachers, ever did. Not for all the rice wine in china would I want to do that job.

BillMC - Member
In schools we teach, amongst other things, about conditions of service, standards of living, in/security at work, anti-union legislation, the widening health and wealth gap etc etc. We are acutely aware of these things. Do you really think workers in the state sector are protected from speed-ups, redundancies, pay cuts, pension cuts? Ever thought of taking an interest in current affairs?

Posted 5 minutes ago # Report-Post

All learnt from books or the internet, without actually having any experience of real life, it appears.

oh na d the answer is YES.

Oh and relatively speaking teaching isn't a well paid profession when compared with other graduate professions such as Doctors and Lawyers.

From the CPS careers website

The starting salary for legal trainees is £18,425 (national pay rate) or £19,441 (London base rate) award pending.

What gets me about teachers, the police the NHS etc, is that they are ill-informed about the reality of working life for most of the UK

Yeah, because we don't know anyone who does anything other than teach 🙄

The starting salary for legal trainees is £18,425 (national pay rate) or £19,441 (London base rate) award pending.

and the average salary once qualified...?

Takes deep inhale as project attacks public sector workers ...how many of you real world private sector folk are at work posting now? Ah the real world eh
I think teachers just want people to realise it is not a PT job with short hours and long holidays as many ill informed people think.
many jobs are hard but the public sector is not some land where everyone does nothing all day long except post on the internet
I suspect most daytime prolific posters on here are private sector employees
EDIT:
Income

Salaries during pupillage are at least £10,000 a year.
In the first few years of practice, earnings can be anywhere between £25,000 and £200,000 a year, depending on specialism and reputation.
Salaries in the Crown Prosecution Service are between £28,000 and £60,000.
Top earnings in private practice can reach £750,000 a year or more.

'Real life'? Deary me, is there really a parallel universe? Is the answer really 42?

Ironically someone who appears to be ill-informed about the roles that these people do claims they are ill-informed about the real world. Sorry but teachers/NHS workers/police live more in "the real world" than you do in their world.

Put the Daily Mail down and listen to people who do the jod. I mean actually talk to a real person not rely on people that have an axe to grind (plenty of them on both sides of the fence).

Oh and i'm a private sector worker in a public sector role.

project - Member

MSP - Member

ill-informed knockers

What gets me about teachers, the police the NHS etc, is that they are ill-informed about the reality of working life for most of the UK. They see their roles as being especially difficult and hard, a viewpoint frequently re-enforced by government policy labelling them as key workers. They need to open their eyes, for a big portion of society working conditions and life quality has been gradually getting worse since the 80's, they are just part of it.

Posted 19 minutes ago # Report-Post

Well said that man,the 3 types of job are so insular and so well protected by the unions or governmnet that they just float above redundancy, sacking, and being incompetent, they go on about how hard they work, yet get paid well, and finally it was THERE career choice, not some person working in an office who is now going to tell unemployed what job they need to do and how to get it , all as part of the new governmnet scheme to create profits for large companies, ofering back to work advice.

Isn't the point here the fact that we need our teachers to be highly qualified, competent and well motivated people. They are after all whats shaping the future for us all whether we like it or not.

Surely cutting their pay by 50% is devaluing is demotivating, let alone the constant buggering about that goes on with the curriculum every time you get a new half wit like Gove in.

Isn't the point here the fact that we need our teachers to be highly qualified, competent and well motivated people.

My point would be its bad to just highlight certain professions to be "highly qualified, competent and well motivated" those criteria are required in all areas of life in order for society to advance, not just the select few that play well for the media.

Stories of teachers unable to buy houses in major cities makes headlines and garners political capital, stories of employees of water companies being unable to buy houses doesn't. Both education and clean water and thousands of other things are required and important to the health and future of our kids, teachers don't deserve special considerations, they deserve the same as everyone else.

Stories of teachers unable to buy houses in major cities makes headlines and garners political capital, stories of employees of water companies being unable to buy houses doesn't.

Children live in cities so it makes sense for schools to be located there and therefore teachers also. Water companies do not have to be based in cities, in fact I'd go as far as to say that locating a water company in a city is fairly stupid thing to do.

Oh FFS!

Very little "has" to be in a city, but its a because society has largely moved into cities, that is where all the requirements are. Do you carry your water in a bucket from outside the city or does it come out of a tap in your kitchen? Most of the supply infrastructure needs to be close to where people live.

Most of the supply infrastructure needs to be close to where people live.

Is that why they build nuclear power staions in the middle of nowhere?

Anyway that wasn't my point, my point is rather more selfish thatn that. This country needs to be successful into the foreseeable future, otherwise we won't be able to pay for the frigging infrastructure wherever it is! So how does that happen?

We educate properly and to the highest possible standards. Thats why its as important and in reality much more so than water supply systems, electricity or pretty much anything else in long term....... unless of course you aren't worried about things like turning the place into a third world economy, the value of your pension, etc etc you know little things like that!

How many schools operate with zero electricity?

most of those in the third world apparently

Is that why they build nuclear power staions in the middle of nowhere?

How about all the substations at the ends of streets, all cables down the roads and into every home, the fuseboxes and the plug points, the street lighting etc etc etc. Do you think its all done by pixies? You seem to fail to grasp the concept of how a city works. Turn the water off to London and education will become nothing but a dream the city will collapse into chaos in days.

most of those in the third world apparently

Do you really think those schools are churning out the calibre of students that would advance western society? They may be moving ahead of their parents education but they are generations behind the education being taught here.

MSP, isnt electricity supplied by private companies? If a city wants it switched back on they will pay whats needed, they are also free to pay different amounts to people in different areas if they need to attract the right person.
Teachers have National pay awards with a bit extra paid for London and the whole thing paid for by the tax payer. Its hardly a similar set of circumstances.

The city doesn't pay, its the people who live in the city that pay, if a teacher can't afford to live there think of all the other people who are essential to the running of the city that get paid less, how are they meant to pay it.
I would say that the national pay award actually puts the teachers in a strong position, in most industries the employees have to compete against each other this means the employers have access to a market that actually does have to compete on price.

have to compete against each other this means the employers have access to a market that actually does have to compete on price.

. I've taught working class kids who've gone on to become barristers, academics, an M.P., doctors and indeed teachers.

so a teachers salary rises pro/rata with their tendency to talk to other adults in a dictatorial manner as if they were children.

why do teachers do this? can't they learn how to separate work and home life?

In consider myself well paid for my job and experience. The problem is that at 29 years old I have reached the top of the pay scale and can only move up further if I go into leadership, which means less classroom teaching time. Classroom teaching is the fun part of the job, so not exactly a brilliant choice to have to make.

I work 7am - 4pm every day, occasionally later in the evening marking and report writing. I also go in for at least a week during the summer holiday and spend another week on field trips during the holidays.

It's ok, just a bit rubbish long term. Plus you can't ever get a cheap holiday.

GB

'Job for life'? No more! I work in Somerset and I know staff are being made redundant in many secondary schools, including my own.

Anway its been nice but I make a point not to argue on the internet with idiots.

Argument? Its a discussion not an argument, but as you are failing to grasp any of the points being made it probably is best you leave it to those that have more understanding.

I have reached the top of the pay scale and can only move up further if I go into leadership, which means less classroom teaching time

In theory you could look at excellent teacher or advanced skills teacher but these roles will no doubt become more and more difficult to get in the current climate of redunancies. Clink, its the same in Hampshire too.

Anagallis - not in the independent sector as those roles don't exist. I jumped ship 5 years ago as I got sick of buying my own bloody glue sticks. Those positions don't look likely to exist for much longer in the state sector either...

GB

See, it's the high esteem in which teachers are held that provides them with all the motivation they need. Especially with talk about making it into a Masters level profession, yet people are bundling it in with Police and the NHS in general

You seem to fail to grasp the concept of how a city works

.....and you seem to miss the concept of irony/pish being ripped 😉

Best thing about not being a teacher for me?

I can pee when I want.

No really!

🙂

Late into this, as an overpaid and underworked teacher I have been tramping around with my DoE group this weekend....I obviously agree with AA and Bull etc, and I realise that Project has an axe to grind about public service workers, but he makes me agree with Junkyard's posts and I mean, c'mon! A.A they have just shut the chartered teacher scheme up here, with two years conservation,somebody will soon look on your enhanced posts while thumbing an axe....
If you are still following this Trail-rat, how is the other half's job search going? (another issue in teaching just now, no jobs)

somebody will soon look on your enhanced posts while thumbing an axe....

Very true AST was summoned to see the head today and went a bit pale, he came back to report that he was taking on reponsibilities of one of the sacked deputy heads.

didnt get websters - went to an old school friend of mine

didnt get fochabers - went to someone from within

culloden was withdrawn - they got a transfer

she has applied or is applying to inverurie, oban and inverness royal academy now - last 2 not ideal but its a job

shes on aberdeen city and aberdeenshire supply lists at least

Small world T-R, the Websters job went to our probationer. My wife has always done supply and has never actually been out of work in the three years since she finished,even this last year there has been something,so worst case scenario i.e supply will at least keep her hand in.