[Closed] New Scottish Air Gun Laws

Reckon there should be one already, and i have one.

EDIT: A gun not a license

I think that if you want to own a device that can discharge a projectile at 800 feet per second into a one inch diameter target at 40 yards then you should have to explain why and justify it with proof.
A lot of modern precharged pneumatic air rifles also have a magazine holding up to 14 pellets which can be cycled within less than 30 secs.

Too many swans being shot to bits, kids losing eyes etc. because these things fall into the hands of idiots.

There's a lot of wee radges and neds who take pop shots at folk in the inner city areas, they deserve a bullet in the back of their head themselves but to be frank these are the type of folk who are not going to give a toss about buying an airgun licence anyway so what exactly will the airgun licence achieve? - absolutely ****-all apart from raise revenue and provide a few jobs for more paper pushers and legislators.

A knee-jerk reaction that will affect and cost ££ for the responsible airgun user rather than make the slightest bit of difference to their use and abuse by feral schemie rats.

I'm not an airgun user myself but a good few mates are.

[img] [/img]

No license required.

[quote=somafunk ]There's a lot of wee radges and neds who take pop shots at folk in the inner city areas, they deserve a bullet in the back of their head themselves but to be frank these are the type of folk who are not going to give a toss about buying an airgun licence anyway so what exactly will the airgun licence achieve? - absolutely ****-all apart from raise revenue and provide a few jobs for more paper pushers and legislators.
A knee-jerk reaction that will affect and cost ££ for the responsible airgun user rather than make the slightest bit of difference to their use and abuse by feral schemie rats.

Good point. We should adopt a "zero tolerance" to air guns of all sorts and license them the same way as other firearms.

Or

Not bother at all and let everyone buy and keep whatever firearms they want.

derek_starship - Member

No license required.

Much easier to punish the innocent rather than attempt to get parents to take responsibility for their own kids.

Unenforceable nonsense.

Must buy a new rifle before this idiocy spreads south.

World gone stupid. All the things we used to enjoy as kids, knives, air guns, so does than mean kids can only use cross bows in Scotland now?

What would William Wallace think?

I think it's a great idea, we have a license system for cars and it seems to work very effectively as I've yet to see anybody on this forum complain about a car being used illegally or inappropriately.

Given it doesn't seem to have a trigger, it's hardly likely to do much damage.

Operated by mind control...

fair arguments from both sides.

I do agree with Soma that I doubt this would have any impact whatsoever on the scumbags who misuse these things and wont have any intention of buying a licence even if its the law.

Also what is a 'legitimate reason' for having one of these? Most folks probably own them for fun, so unless you're a farmer or land owner I'm not convinced you'd have any more justification for buying one than the wee radgy in his inner city council flat.

[i]Too many swans being shot to bits, kids losing eyes etc. because these things fall into the hands of idiots. [/i]

So you'll be also asking for the control/storage of other more dangerous items too? Kitchen and Stanley knives, 2"x"2 wood, and baseball bats?

http://www.sarpa.org.uk/defend-your-sport/parliamentary-firearms-enquiry/6-politics/101-airgun-crime-falls-again

vs

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/News/Releases/2010/09/24150743

And for those south of the border, didn't you see this:

http://www.basc.org.uk/en/shooting/airgunning/airgun-guidance-and-fact-sheets.cfm

No, me neither. Well advertised...

[i]Must buy a new rifle before this idiocy spreads south. [/i]

Same thought, but I'm now north of the border - my local shop has a really nice s/w Weihrauch sports rifle 🙂

Perhaps i should have explained it better, i'm editing video at the moment and typed it out rather quickly 😉

license airguns? - yeah ok - possible good idea as long as it's a nominal fee to cover the paperwork costs, not a punitive charge/tax, Then we'll find out how many are in circulation and owned by responsible owners who are happy to pay a small charge for such a licence.

If they seriously consider that the neds will rush out and either hand their guns over or pay for a license then i'm afraid they are even more deluded than i originally thought, and it's time to start dragging the politicians out of the scottish parliament one by one to live with us in the real world.

Good job IMO.

My car has been shot and damaged twice by neds with air rifles.

[i]"We are not banning air weapons outright but there has to be a legitimate use for them. We do not believe that there should be half a million unlicensed firearms in 21st Century Scotland.[/i]

They are not a FIREARM! Its not difficult.

The only predictable outcome will be the rate of air gun related crime after legislation is introduced?!?? 😉

No license required.

[img] [/img]

Also doesn't require a license but kills more people a year than air rifles

So if the troublemakers don't bother getting licenses, won't that help police take them off the streets.

Before:"Someone has been taking pot shots at passers by, we reckon it's Neddy McCrackhead but can't prove it (hundreds of people live in the same tower block) so can't convict him of anything, so he keeps his gun".

After:"Neddy McCrackhead has got a gun but no licence so we go round to his house and take the gun away. Incredibly this has stopped the potshots".

My car has been shot and damaged twice by neds with air rifles.

As a firearms license holder I have to say that I think it it a good idea. I've always thought that air rifles are a bit pointless - powerful enough to do damage but not really powerful enough for any real purpose....Can't think of any good reason for owning one other than target practice, for which you should be a member of a club etc etc. All IMHO of course.

As with many things legislating against the lawful ownership and use will have no effect on the inappropriate and already illegal use.

Can't think of any good reason for owning one other than target practice,

Agree with mark90, but as Bails rightly points out it means you don't need to catch a ned in the act to confiscate his weapon.

"Rats" - that's what shotguns are for 😉

br - when did you last read a tale about a swan being dismantled by a stanley knife or a length of timber?

dogbert - vodka isn't forced into people's mouths in some form of attack - it is drunk by willing participants.

Air rifles facilitate an anonymous, remote mechanism for injury or damage.

I'd love to see the change in attitude on here if an STWers child was seriously injured by an air rifle sniper...

I keep meaning to get one to kill the squirrels who keep digging up my lawn / bulbs / plants / eating outside lights / chewing through cables etc...

Seems reasonable to me, for a weapon that can and does injure and is misused fairly widely?

The argument that "there are more important things to legislate on" is a nonsense - you propose that they should target only the most important thing on a priority list, then work their way down? What's at the top? World peace? We could waste time arguing about the list?

The argument that "alcohol kills more people but you don't need a licence to buy it" is also a nonsense - unless you have a suggestion about improving that situation?

Both the above arguments are wheeled out any time some legislation is proposed that some don't like. Utter, utter shite.

Don't forget poaching, or so I've been told. Ahem.

derek

my mum was a nurse on Fri/Sat evenings, I can assure you that vodka (*other alchohols and drugs also work in the same way) was indeed the cause of some form of attack.

br - when did you last read a tale about a swan being dismantled by a stanley knife or a length of timber?

vodka isn't forced into people's mouths in some form of attack - it is drunk by willing participants.

I'd love to see the change in attitude on here if an STWers child was seriously injured by an air rifle sniper...

Air rifles facilitate an anonymous, remote mechanism for injury or damage.

Can't think of any good reason for owning one other than target practice, for which you should be a member of a club etc etc. All IMHO of course.

I think I agree, and I own one! I ended up buying one from a mate when he moved for not a lot of money. I'm lucky to live in the countryside with a very (very) long garden and nothing behind it so plink at a few targets every now and again (mainly work avoidance) but would struggle to get excited enough about it to turn it into an actual hobby. I'd struggle to think of a good reason why I own it.

After googling it, it turns out it might be worth a bob or two (1985 BSA Airsporter Stutzen) so might tidy it up a little and sell it on. No idea where you sell a second hand "collectable" air rifle mind...

BTW, as an airgun owner and member of an airgun club, I am not against licensing. What I am against is that the licensing will be driven by poorly thought out knee jerk reactionism like that being shown by derek_s, rather than looking at how best to benefit wider society.

convert

www.gunstar.co.uk

Bit harsh Al!

To be honest I don't care in the slightest as it wont impact me one bit. If it could be enforcable I actually think its not a bad idea, and bails makes a good argument.

Thing is I don't think it'll make any difference, I'd be delighted to be proven wrong and only time will tell, but for me time and money could be spent on other things IMO.

I'll tell you how bollocks this law is!

The decision by the scottish parliament is that in order to own an air rifle, the applicant will need to demonstrate, and I quote "they had a legitimate reason for owning one"

Whereas, to own a shotgun, you [b]don't[/b] need do demonstrate a legitimate reason for ownership, firearms law specifically states that all you have to demonstrate is that you have a secure place to keep it, and that you are of good character - the only justifiable reason to refuse a shotgun licence is if the police believe you may constitute a danger to the public.

so - you can own a shotgun, but can't own an air rifle

well done SNP!

Cynical - some of the tired old arguments do become irritating after a while, don't they? Someone told me the other day that air guns were "misused fairly widely"? Didn't show much evidence mind, but I guess that had a point to prove?

Having said that I am not opposed to licensing but irritated by the bllx that it will reduce air gun related crime. As for those Robin Hood wannabes running around with lethal weapons, common Nicola S, get your act together!

Crossbows etc should probably be added to the list of requires a license in the ideal world - again why would anyone need a crossbow? (& of course if you justify it carry on and buy one).

What they should really do is change the rules so that anything that can fire a projectile with > x joules of energy requires to be licensed / ownership and use to be justified to the authorities. That way you get everything from the air rifle pellet at 800 ft/sec to the heavy slow moving stuff too.

It's not about detracting from people's freedoms to own this stuff but it is just a common sense step to make sure that people have a legitimate reason for owning hazardous 'weapons'. Like I said I have a firearms certificate as I live on a farm and use it for pest control. I don't see why people shouldn't be asked to justify their reason for owning a weapon. Of course it could / should be done without legislation by the people who sell them but obviously (history has shown) that some of them are not responsible enough to self-regulate.

BBSM, oh - thanks. Link blocked by work (that's 3 strikes today - my browsing history will be combed over by the NM wobbles tonight now 👿 ) but I'll look tonight. Is that an Air rifle you have heard of BBSB?

So are we saying that unless you are using your gun for pest control or are a member of a club then you shouldn't have one? Ie if your average STW member wanted to buy one for a bit of target practice in his back garden then it wouldn't be allowed?

Zulu-Eleven - Member - Quote
I'll tell you how bollocks this law is!

The [b]decision by the scottish parliament[/b] is that in order to own an air rifle, the applicant will need to demonstrate, and I quote "they had a legitimate reason for owning one"

Justice Secretary Kenny MacAskill [b]launched a consultation[/b] on how the new licensing regime for air weapons will work.

Target practice for what exactly?

Again if they can justify a good reason for it carry on - ie. I like to do some target practice in my back garden on the odd weekend so that I can improve my shooting in competition? I have a rat problem and what an air rifle to shoot them?

These all seem like legitimate (if mis-guided) reasons to me.....

As has been said several times already its not about the average law abiding citizen, who would apply for a license. It's about making it easier to take away weapons from people who can't be trusted with them.

So 145 airgun incidents and 212 knife crimes in the same period..

Oh - and I agree the shotgun rules are ridiculous and should've been changed years ago. Ironically when you apply for a firearms certificate you have to list shotguns as well as rifles and they suddenly seem to come into the same category as rifles (probably should be there anyhow).

And Druidh [b]Spanners[/b] it over the post in trying to score points against the Zulu!

"We are not consulting on the principle of licensing - this will happen"

Kenny MacAskill

Booyah!

convert - doesn't mean anything to me, but I'm not an expert, sorry. had a look, nothing on gunstar, but have a look from home

again why would anyone need a crossbow? ( of course if you justify it carry on and buy one).

Booyah!

..so your life does have meaning after all. not much if that's all it takes, but some.

I was the chairman of an airgun club until 2009. I gave up because of the majority of people who were coming along to join were complete knobbers. I was quite disgusted that the local gun shops would actually sell an airgun to such scrotes when mis-use was highly likely.

Carrying knives is already illegal with a legitimate reason - hence no licensing. The fact that they're not enforced very well is a failing of the police / government to provide adequate resources to enforce.

After tackling the widespread misuse (145/@500,000) perhaps they could then focus on those tartan hooligans who ensnare animals with metal throught their mouths before yanking them out of their natural habitat and wacking them over the head with a big stick. Nasty bunch, really! 😉

Still diverts attention from th Independence vote at least, and that's a blessing.

[quote=Zulu-Eleven ]And Druidh Spanners it over the post in trying to score points against the Zulu!
"We are not consulting on the principle of licensing - this will happen"
Kenny MacAskill
Booyah!
That there will be licensing is not in doubt. However you are incorrect in your assertion that the Scottish Parliament has decided how the issuing of licences will be determined. That's why a consultation document has been issued.

Whereas, to own a shotgun, you don't need do demonstrate a legitimate reason for ownership, firearms law specifically states that all you have to demonstrate is that you have a secure place to keep it, and that you are of good character - the only justifiable reason to refuse a shotgun licence is if the police believe you may constitute a danger to the public.

... and I agree that they should be licensed.

Pops in, sees Zulu pwned again.

And now referring to himself in the third person. A new meltdown has started.

Pics from the bible please. 😆

What they should really do is change the rules so that anything that can fire a projectile with > x joules of energy requires to be licensed / ownership and use to be justified to the authorities. That way you get everything from the air rifle pellet at 800 ft/sec to the heavy slow moving stuff too

Which is how the UK law stands now. Anything over 12 ft/lb requires a license. The legal limit is set to 12 ft/lb, which equates to just under 600 ft/sec (varies a bit according to pellet).

There's a few people here should go and read the consultation document.

Proposal is for anything over 1 Joule.
Proposal is for it to be administered by the Police.
Proposal recognises that most airguns sold in Scotland cost < £100 and the charge needs to be appropriate.
Plinking (shooting at targets in your back garden) will not be a legitimate use.

The point is some people, particularly in inner city areas, feel intimidated by people with air guns, and there are a reasonable number of idiots shooting at people and animals for fun with them. It was a manifesto issue at the last election and democracy elected the government. Therefore the government are consulting, don't argue on here about it respond to the consultation.

Carrying knife without just cause, drink driving, domestic violence and whatever other issues people highlighted are already crimes. I believe this probably is enforceable: a simple "carrying in public" would not be as by the time police respond they have gone and in my experience a lot of it is conducted from the privacy of people homes out the window.

Clong - your velocity:muzzle energy statement is valid only for .22 calibre pellets. .177 calibre weigh about half.

"Proposal is for it to be administered by the Police."

It already takes nearly four months for the grant or renewal of a shotgun cert..so this will be..well..interesting in its administration

Take a look at the consultation document:

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2012/12/5619/0

Basically they want to stop all (air gun) shooting that's not at a range/club. So more restrictive than that for shotguns and firearms.

And just noticed that they want an 18 y/o age limit. A bit odd that, when a 14 y/o can have a FAC.

Or is it 'class war' 😉 Airguns for city poor, FAC for estate and countryside folk?

"I think it's a great idea, we have a license system for cars and it seems to work very effectively as I've yet to see anybody on this forum complain about a car being used illegally or inappropriately"
Oh yeah? The world is full of idiots driving in a stupod manner.
Just another stupid nanny state idea to restrict the innocent many because of the idiot few.