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Interesting article on Keir Starmer's pitch for the leadership: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/17/keir-starmer-labour-leadership-pitch-radical-government
Seems keen to maintain a very broad church including embracing Momentum.
Because of the nomination rules there will only be one 'momentum' [1] candidate in the leadership contest.
I took it for granted that the PLP would only put forward one 'non-momentum' [1] candidate to avoid splitting the 'non-momentum' [1] vote as they did last time when Owen Jones got the gig.
None of the comment I've seen has mentions that, so what gives?
Stormy PLP meeting for Corbyn yesterday [2], people quite reasonably pointing out that if Corbyn can't/won't resign then his "public school stalinist" team can.
Meanwhile Rachel Reeves, a former frontbencher, was clapped after she said the real problem in the election was the leader and what she called an “economically illiterate” manifesto.
Those who spoke up in support of Mr Corbyn included Claudia Webbe, a newly elected leftwinger, who said: “We have a lot to celebrate.” That comment was met with derisive laughter from fellow Labour MPs
https://www.ft.com/content/a7c688be-2106-11ea-92da-f0c92e957a96
[1] FWOABW
[2] He's used to that by now.
Starmer in the Guardian today:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/17/keir-starmer-labour-leadership-pitch-radical-government
/blockquote>Interesting read. He's a 'safe pair of hands' at a point where the country is about to be run by a narcissistic, opportunistic sociopath, which isn't such a bad thing. And while he's maybe not the most exciting, charismatic speaker out there, he is at least intelligent and cogent which maybe, at this point, is what the opposition needs. The other thing about Starmer is that mostly he's been defined by his Brexit role, mostly people simply don't know what else there is to him.
Bottom line: the next five years is going be be defined by just how badly the Tories let us all down. Fwiw the current situation reminds me of the early days of Trump where people were speculation about whether he would evolve into a bog standard GOP politician and become more 'presidential' and look how that worked out.
I wonder what Chuka Umunna is thinking now.
Edit: oops, sorry for the article double post. Must learn to read.
Bottom line: the next five years is going be be defined by just how badly the Tories let us all down.
Boris is gonna spend money like water & there's a recession due.
In five years time we could be in the hilarious position where a Labour government gets elected on a ticket of spending cuts to fix the mess the Torys left.
Too late to edit but I meant Owen Smith. ^^^^^^^^^^^^
He’s a ‘safe pair of hands’ at a point where the country is about to be run by a narcissistic, opportunistic sociopath, which isn’t such a bad thing
Irrelevant when against a big tory majority - what exactly can he do with his safe pair of hands?
Interesting read.
Very reassuring. Of course what it means is that Blairism is now dead and buried. Corbyn did his job after all. Must be why they're all so pissed off even though they got what they wanted.
I still don't think Starmer is the answer on account of being male and from London (the remain stuff will be forgotten in 5 years so not an issue), but on this evidence I wouldn't be upset if he did become leader on the proviso that he's sincere about maintaining a radical policy agenda. If I were a member, I'd vote for him ahead of RLB.
In five years time we could be in the hilarious position where a Labour government gets elected on a ticket of spending cuts to fix the mess the Torys left.
Not sure about that but it should be easier to win
Brexit mostly delivered but no benefits to see - probably will be negatives though and definitely not less foreigners in the country
More and more extreme tory policies in place which will mostly impact the mugs that switched to tory this time
Could be an easy sell but I fear they won't grasp what is actually needed in a leader to get the people back.
I wonder what Chuka Umunna is thinking now.
"When you come at the King, you best not miss".
The 'them and us' types in Labour will never forgive him, the Libs might give him another crack at any by elections between now and 2024, but with so few Lib Dem safe seats he's going to have to really perform to get into Parliament again, it'll be a long old road just to get back to where he was, I think his Goose is cooked, he'll end up in some thinktank somewhere, well until Labour do a complete about-face and aim for the centre again.
Sadly Chuka and the rest of the Indies and various MPs who resigned or defected will be a lesson to any others who think they can disrupt the crooked old 2-party system.
In five years time we could be in the hilarious position where a Labour government gets elected on a ticket of spending cuts to fix the mess the Torys left.
Ironically perhaps, it's a Myth that the Tories are great for the economy, the deficit typically rises when they're in power.
Of course what it means is that Blairism is now dead and buried. Corbyn did his job after all.
Did Corbyn really have to kill the Labour Party to do that job though?
Starmer's piece was good. It showed insightful intelligence which is what we need. I have a feeling Johnson's populism will have worn thin in 5 years time as things continue to slide and Johnson is exposed.
I think a Starmer/Cooper ticket would get the Blairites back on board instead of standing on the sidelines.
Have to agree with Starmer that the manifesto was too long but I would not want to ditch it as it contains many good ideas that would transform this country.
Of course what it means is that Blairism is now dead and buried.
Yes, because there is 100pc no way that the 'non-momentum' candidates would talk up their leftie credentials to garner votes from the membership. Absolutley not. 🙂
I have a feeling Johnson’s populism will have worn thin in 5 years time as things continue to slide and Johnson is exposed.
Populism does wear thin in most countries but it takes longer than 5 years for people to get it - probably 10 before people see there were sold a lie and would vote against it.
I would not want to ditch it as it contains many good ideas that would transform this country.
"an impossible program that nobody would believe"
"economically illiterate"
Unless RLB wins the leadership no candidate will *ever* seek election in the UK on anything like that manifesto ever again.
Just before the election Corbyn actually tweeted:
[snip list of expensive stuff] You deserve it, the billionaires and big business will pay for it.
Facile stuff.
Yes, because there is 100pc no way that the ‘non-momentum’ candidates would talk up their leftie credentials to garner votes from the membership. Absolutley not. 🙂
You'd hope they would, away from the polarised world of ideology politics, most of them have worked out if you want to make positive change in the world you need to actually have the power to do it, to have the power you need people to vote for you, for people to vote for you, you need more people to agree with you than the next person. So to the Lefties you say "I agree with you on these points" you don't have to pretend you're completely aligned with them.
I think a Starmer/Cooper ticket
Cooper should stay well clear. She'd clearly be a step backwards (they won't vote for her anyway, she found that out last time). Starmer represents the centre, if he's to be leader then Rayner should be deputy with RLB as shadow chancellor.
Cooper's Castleford constituency was 70% leave IIRC - so she goes and completely shows her aris to them by actively and effectively campaigning against Brexit - no mealy mouthed JC platitudes here, deselect me if you dare (they don't), and then gets returned to parliament last week (albeit on a slim margin). Impressive - that is a politician. Has to be part of the Leadership team if not the actual top spot.
Have to agree with Starmer that the manifesto was too long
The Tory manifesto was effectively three words, promised nothing in particular, explained even less, and those three words were basically a unicorn being waved around. Yes I know they had a proper manifesto but did anyone GAS?
Difficult to disagree with Starmer on this point.
Adding to the manifesto with new announcements day after day was an utterly naive political strategy as well. It left voters utterly unbelieving and untrusting of Labour… ‘what will they come up with tomorrow, another X billion pounds to nationalise Y ?’
Adding to the manifesto with new announcements day after day was an utterly naive political strategy as well. It left voters utterly unbelieving and untrusting of Labour… ‘what will the come up with tomorrow, another X billion to nationalise Y ¿’
Agree.
STW seems to be slipping into the view that the Torys ran a good campaign. They didn't. Boris's approval rating were dire from the start - worse than Mays. The campaign was dire. Boris didn't win, Labour failed to score against an open goal for the second time in a row.
People need to read the accounts of the PLP meeting last night. Nobody in the PLP is saying that they were beaten by a good leader and a good campaign and they should know.
Torys ran a good campaign
They ran a great campaign. You/we/I just didn’t see much of it. The right lies targeted at the people that matter, at the time it mattered, via Facebook. Cummings and his team know what they are doing, and had the funds to do it, they didn’t just strike it lucky.
STW seems to be slipping into the view that the Torys ran a good campaign. They didn’t. Boris’s approval rating were dire from the start – worse than Mays. The campaign was dire. Boris didn’t win, Labour failed to score against an open goal for the second time in a row.
No way was this an open goal - you must be joking (although weren't you the guy saying the lib dems were going to win 100 seats or something like that? In which case OK, you see things in a special way)
JC is a self-evidently horrible leader and a well deserving scapegoat, but that shouldn't disguise the fact labour were boxed in something savage. Core vote fractured in two over Brexit and Scotland off the table - no one's bringing that one home.
Places like Blyth Valley, Don Valley, Leigh etc etc don't ever vote Tory and certainly not because the labour leader's weak, or the manifesto's not quite hitting the spot. Turning them blue points to very powerful forces of change that are way way bigger than Corbyn.
They ran a great campaign. You/we/I just didn’t see much of it.
If you didn't see it how do you know?
It was a dire campaign and Boris's approval rating was dreadful. Feel free to find me a link to a credible source that demonstrates otherwise. (Prefferably one pre-election that doesn't have the gift of hindsight but I'm not that fussy.)
The government has reeling from embarrasing disaster to embarrasing disaster for 3 years. The Torys were on their knees last week, a sitting duck.
although weren’t you the guy saying the lib dems were going to win 100 seats or something like that?
He was the guy saying Jo Swinson would be PM off the back of a massive remain rebellion. I treat all his other views with the same seriousness.
If you didn’t see it how do you know?
The Tories realised very early on the public were quite happy to treat this as a Brexit referelection.
Tories Brexit position was simple. It was their effective manifesto. They've been banging it out since Boris got the job in the summer.
Labour's Brexit position was too complex to explain in a slogan, therefore, too complex.
I'm not sure Boris approval rating mattered that much. Corbyns was abysmal even before Boris got the top job.
The Tories realised very early on the public were quite happy to treat this as a Brexit referelection.
Tories Brexit position was simple. It was their effective manifesto. They’ve been banging it out since Boris got the job in the summer.
Labour’s Brexit position was too complex to explain in a slogan, therefore, too complex.
I’m not sure Boris approval rating mattered that much. Corbyns was abysmal even before Boris got the top job.
Yes, the 'blame brexit' instruction was sent out by Sheamus on election night so that is certainly the party line. Of course over 50pc of us didn't vote leave.
Anyway let's hand 2019 down to the sheer talent and amazingness of the Torys. What's the excuse for 2017, which was also an open goal AFAIC - May got well and truely found out.
In fact forget it. I've read tons of commentary and I've not seen *anyone* putting this down to the Torys being good. Before the election result it was all about Boris in a fridge, fake news about punches and Boris dodging Andrew Neil.
This is like Milliband - His campaign/offering wasn't that bad. The idea that it was terrible was all in hindisght.
The torys were not good but they were in an easy position. The tory party wanted Brexit and the whole election was about Brexit with the loveable Johnson to lead it.
If we could rerun it with Labour also having a get Brexit done (just with a different deal than Tories) I think it would have bene a different matter - Corbyn or not.
I don't particularly want Brexit but give choice between Tories or Labour implementing Brexit along with all their other polices it would be an easy choice for me. I think a lot of the votes they lost would have had the same thoughts as me.
OOB the tory campaign was the lies that you often repeated and repeated and never stopped repeating. It obviously worked on you, if you couldn't see it, it was because you was it, you bought it from day 1, bought the t-shirt the hat and the mug, and then proclaimed it with religious zeal.
OOB the tory campaign was the lies that you often repeated and repeated and never stopped repeating. It obviously worked on you, if you couldn’t see it, it was because you was it, you bought it from day 1, bought the t-shirt the hat and the mug, and then proclaimed it with religious zeal.
I voted libdem: Revoke. 1p on income tax. Extra cash for people on 0 hour contracts.
Feel free to state a lie I repeated and I'll defend it or admit it if it's not true.
If we could rerun it with Labour also having a get Brexit done (just with a different deal than Tories) I think it would have bene a different matter – Corbyn or not.
If Labour has gone with “we must have Brexit, but not this Brexit”, they would have been painted as delaying, dithering, and not offering a ‘real Brexit’, and would have still lost support from people who just want it ‘done’, while also losing support from those urging caution and wanting a vote on just Brexit. They would have been challenged on every occasion to define their alternative Brexit, and then had it both rejected as not Brexit by many, yet as damaging and pointless by others.
If Labour has gone with “we must have Brexit, but not this Brexit”, they would have been painted as delaying, dithering, and not offering a ‘real Brexit’...
It's up to Labour to paint their own picture...
Yes, they get a hard time from the media, and that's a huge influencing factor. But as much as I can respect Jeremy Corbyn for his principles, they have lacked a leader that can put forward a strong and convincing argument for their vision.
Let's face it, the Conservatives sold Brexit to the people despite all evidence suggesting it is a terrible idea.
Let’s face it, the Conservatives sold Brexit to the people despite all evidence suggesting it is a terrible idea.
Eh? The Tory leadership enthusiastically campaigned for remain and resigned when they lost.
Labour leadership were lifelong brexiteers and we know from Alan Johnson, leader of "Labour In For Britain" that their campaigning was 'risable'.
Irrelevant when against a big tory majority – what exactly can he do with his safe pair of hands?
You can at least rely on him to be coherent in Parliament and in media interviews and not come across as a flake. One of the most depressing aspects of Corbyn's leadership was his total inability to nail down May and Johnson even when the goal was basically wide open. Failed miserably to hold the government to account, which is the prime function of the opposition. Or do you think they should all just go home and let the Tories get on with it, what with their big majority and all?
I'm not saying Starmer is the messiah or who I'd choose to lead the Labour party, but I'd take him over Rebecca Long-Bailey every time.
Agree with BWD - I think his safe pair of hands will start to look more and more convincing as the blond buffoon starts to increasingly show himself as incompetent...
I voted libdem
How did that go?
I’m not saying Starmer is the messiah or who I’d choose to lead the Labour party, but I’d take him over Rebecca Long-Bailey every time.
Agree and I'd go further - a previous director of public proscutions he's *exactly* the kind of calm sane competent adminstrator I want to vote for.
Nobody's going to out-caricature Boris, but Starmer can visibly out-competent him.
The only problem is there's clearly going to be more than one non-momentum candidate splitting the vote so I really don't see how they can beat RLB. Unless the non-momentum people intend to drop out later in the process when front runner is identified.
Labour leadership: Emily Thornberry to run for Labour leadership
Emily Thornberry should be the next Labour Leader.😀
How did that go?
I voted to revoke and didn't get my way. That's democracy.
Emily Thornberry should be the next Labour Leader.
She's ideal given the strategy over the weekend of blaming the working class voters - there is *nobody* better at blaming the working class for stuff than Lady Nugee.
Agree and I’d go further – a previous director of public proscutions he’s *exactly* the kind of calm sane competent adminstrator I want to vote for.
Nobody’s going to out-caricature Boris, but Starmer can visibly out-competent him.
The only problem is there’s clearly going to be more than one non-momentum candidate splitting the vote so I really don’t see how they can beat RLB. Unless the non-momentum people intend to drop out later in the process when front runner is identified.
Sad but true, sad because at a national level you need a non-Momentum, well Centric Leader. There is no UKIP for Socalists, but there is a Lib Deb, Plaid, SNP even thr Tories if you're centric. No they will still vote Labour (Brexit concluded) whether they're lead by the reincarnated corpse of Leon Trotsky or modern day, dare I say it, Blair. They can't even defect to the BSP because they're Marxists and subtleties matter if you an Ideologist.
Starmer can visibly out-competent him
Only if his campaign can capitalise on that.
Starmer can visibly out-competent him
Only if his campaign can capitalise on that.
He'll have half a decade to hone it.
You don't need to be competent, you just need a very simple message that the voters firstly think they understand and secondly is something they think they want, a "get Brexit done" if you will. What that slogan will be in 5 years time who knows but that will matter more than the leader.