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2) It throws another man into the pot. Previously it was looking like Starmer against a few women, which wouldn’t have been a good look.
Really good point, hadn't thought of that.
With Brexit sandwiched in the middle of all this you can never know for sure
2017, plus the previous 50 odd years. The PLP's jobs depend on winning elections and their conclusion is clear.
With Brexit sandwiched in the middle of all this you can never know for sure that left of centre ideology wouldn’t attract lots of voters.
1) As I said before, Labour probably have to lose the next (post-Brexit) election before they properly learn the lessons of losing this one.
2) “Left of centre” takes many forms… the version coming from Milne, Murray & Len isn’t one that the country will ever get behind.
coming from Milne, Murray & Len isn’t one that the country will ever get behind.
+1
"Public School Stalinists" - and when you read their Wikipedia entries that's not even an exageration.
Murray: "After forty years in the Communist Party of Great Britain (CPGB) and then the Communist Party of Britain, he joined the Labour Party towards the end of 2016." - ran Labours 2017 campaign.
To make it more succinct – ignore those on the left who want a revolution – embrace those on left who want a fairer society and improved quality of life for all. People can get behind the second, they will alway run scared of the first.
Very well put. You would think it would be easy to sell a fairer society to the majority of people but the last election backs up your statement.
Looks like Clive Lewis is in for the leadership contest
Would work for me but he would quickly be labelled another marxist. Plus he may be the wrong colour for mass appeal...
‘Scuse my laziness but is it a FPTP election for the leadership or is it a loser-gets-eliminated until only one left?
The rules are pretty crazy deadlydarcy … read them to get a real insight into how rules can be set/changed to control the party. The final vote is a fairly straight forward AV type affair (members rank candidates by preference)… but the nominations? Wowzers…
Artice here suggesting Starmer may not necessarily get enough union backing to make it onto the member ballot.
http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2019/12/07/labs-leadership-rules-will-limit-the-number-of-nominees-and-could-well-ensure-its-an-all-female-battle/
https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/labour-leadership-election-rules-who-can-vote-next-labour-leader-nominations-explained-1343638
I wondered why I hadn’t seen David Lammy mentioned – interested to know why you think not, kelvin ?
Putting it bluntly, he is black
Remember that Labour will need to win back their ‘red wall’ with all those salt of the earth white working class heroes that dazh so loves to lionise.
Not a chance.
an interesting view here
so suggestions for the future but an analysis of the current party
https://unherd.com/2019/12/how-i-became-tory-scum/
Remember that Labour will need to win back their ‘red wall’ with all those salt of the earth white working class heroes that dazh so loves to lionise.
Not a chance.
I disagree, it's cultural identity that matters, people will vote for someone they identify as "British" (which is progressively colour blind as years go by), who champions causes that relate across communities (not campaigning to a narrow colour/ religion base) , is competent, and inspires some hope that things can be better
racism still exists in the UK but it's changing fast (obviously not fast enough), people who bother to vote are the least likely to be the idiots otherwise the BNP etc wouldn't be the non entity politically they are now
the conservative party is likely to have the first BAME PM
racism still exists in the UK but it’s changing fast (obviously not fast enough)
I would say it has gone in the reverse direction over the last 10 years. I think harmony peaked in the early 2000s (racism, sexism, loads of other ism's) and have been going downhill since then.
Probably helped by people being given a voice via social media
people who bother to vote are the least likely to be the idiots otherwise the BNP etc wouldn’t be the non entity politically they are now
Agree. Sajid Javid, Priti Patel & James Cleverly have all been high profile in the recent election and didn't seem to do any electoral harm. People wouldn't even blink at a BAME party leader.
Probably helped by people being given a voice via social media
Just because it's easier to hear the idiots it doesn't mean there are more of them
I see that the Labour Party are handing out redundancy notices to the junior staff (merry Christmas!) while the millionaire Marxists at the top will all be retaining their handsomely-paid positions. Milne, Murphy and the Corbynite cabal were all moved onto new water-tight gold-plated contracts a couple of months ago.
It’s great this socialism lark, isn’t it?
... for the few, not the many
It’s depressing, not funny.
AlexSimon
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That’s a game-changer for two reasons.
1) He speaks his mind – one of the reasons I never warmed to Burnham/Cooper/Kendall was that they never seemed to want to reveal their true thoughts
I've said a lot about "learning the real lessons not just taking the comforting answers" and this is your perfect example. Labour's own post-mortem after Miliband said "nobody knew what he stood for"- it was the single biggest and strongest criticism. His strongest moment in the whole campaign was when he got pissed off about his dad.
But by the time it was released, "too left wing" had totally taken root as the favoured myth and this lesson was pretty much ignored. And so 2 of the candidates decided that they would go wherever the wind took them as a matter of policy, while Burnham himself didn't know what he stood for never mind anyone else.
He wouldn't be a bad leader, Burnham, if he had a bit of steel in him and a direction to point in. But he doesn't and he doesn't seem to want either. A lot of these in the party these days, largely a product of the "what does Tony think" years.
Just because it’s easier to hear the idiots it doesn’t mean there are more of them
Nope, but it brings it out into the public for others to see and agree with as they think like that but were didn't want to say it. And if just 10% of people are put off by the colour of the leader that is 10% that Labour cannot afford to lose.
one of the reasons I never warmed to Burnham/Cooper/Kendall
Perhaps they couldn’t, because they knew that they had to present two faces… one that might get them elected leader, the other that might get their party into government.
Although, in my opinion, Burnham is a complete weather vane of a politician anyway…
https://www.change.org/p/jeremy-corbyn-mp-campaign-to-keep-jeremy-corbyn-as-leaderA wind up surely? So in the spirit of the joke I've signed.
A wind up surely? So in the spirit of the joke I’ve signed.
I don't think it's a wind up. There are plenty of loud labour left who are banging on about increased number of votes to say he was successful.
The lack of a clear successor for their way is pushing them to desperately keep Corbyn
Thus should however #BackBurgon
Indeed. There is a letter going around social media signed by lots of artists (including lots I respect) thanking and praising Jeremy Corbyn. I still can’t work out if the original is a wind up or not either. Shared lots though, so we can assume that at least those sharing it think that about JC. And they’re not Tories sharing it, before anyone suggests that.
I disagree, it’s cultural identity that matters, people will vote for someone they identify as “British” (which is progressively colour blind as years go by), who champions causes that relate across communities (not campaigning to a narrow colour/ religion base) , is competent, and inspires some hope that things can be better
Now it is my turn to disagree.
Hey chubbs, does an original thought ever enter your head or is it all just breaks from your bottle of bitty to post stuff you’ve seen on Twitter?
Sadly I think the Labour party will end up with RLB and prove they haven't learnt a thing. Another useless leader who will just do as she is told by momentum/unions and will annoy more people that she gets the support of. I found her annoying the first time I ever saw her and she will go down with the public as well as Jo Swinson.
I also highly doubt that they will be a single candidate in the leaders contest who would be able to do what is required.
. Another useless leader who will just do as she is told by momentum/unions and will annoy more people that she gets the support of. I found her annoying the first time I ever saw her and she will go down with the public as well as Jo Swinson
I love how you talk as though it's past-tense and yet we're not even at the leadership elections yet.
Instead of whining on the forums you could be part of the Labour party and shape it. (Apologies if you already are.)
Just out of interest, prior to the Momentum takeover, what was the party of choice for those so far left
Socialist Workers'. In the late 80's and 90's going to a Labour meeting meant running the gauntlet of folk flogging radical left newspapers and pamphlets, with the appealing sales pitch of being called tory scum or spat at if you didn't Fun times
The term “left of centre” was changed to “far left” by outofbreath for fun affect. A shift to the left brought many people to Labour who were not “far left” at all… the challenge is to keep them, but wrestle control from people like Milne, Murray and McClusky so as to broaden the appeal of the party, and increase trust in it.
I don’t think it’s a wind up. There are plenty of loud labour left who are banging on about increased number of votes to say he was successful.
I think it's been set up by Tory Central office and there may be enough deluded Jezza fans saying "we woz robbed" to make up the numbers
with the appealing sales pitch of being called tory scum
I was called tory scum on here for suggesting that Labours Brexit policy was a bit wishy washy. Don't think for a moment those days are gone.
Interesting piece by Roy Hattersley in today’s Observer, who’s clearly as despairing as most about the direction of labour and Len, Jeremy and Seamas anointing the next unelectable leader, continue the pointless Corbynite project and drive the party into irrelevance in some left-wing la-la land
We fought Militant in the 1980’s. The far left’s hold is now much worse
Nah, this is the best article in today’s Observer…
Unless RLB is sensational on the TV / hustings she won't win. Labour members will have the last election at the front of their minds and if she is the momentum/ leadership endorsed candidate it will damage her.
Was going to post that article by Roy Hattersly binners, Kelvin - it kind of undermines your point that it’s just people such as outofbreath who are labelling Corbyn far left.
And the Stewart Lee piece just reinforces why we should put Blair and Mandleson back in charge lol.
The observer today is in full-on bring back Blair mode. They really must be shitting themselves that they’re not going to walk straight back in. The Labour Party would be much better off if the two extremes of Blair and McCluskey disappeared and left Nandy, Starmer et al to rebuild a new grassroots led, regionally based party with solid labour policies.
a new grassroots led, regionally based party with solid labour policies.
Nice soundbite
What does that actually mean?
it kind of undermines your point that it’s just people such as outofbreath who are labelling Corbyn far left
I never made that point. And I don’t agree with it.
What does that actually mean?
More power to the members (and non-members), constituency parties routed in communities organising local events and where possible providing parallel support services where the government doesn't, and a set of policies with regional devolution at their core. Whether Blair, Brown, Corbyn, McCluskey or the whole of the PLP, top-down organisation hasn't worked. It's time to turn it upside down and go the final step to turning it into something much more than a political party seeking power for power's sake.
Surely… we can have lots of local community support groups, campaigning for change locally… and also have a viable alternative to the Conservatives as a party of UK government? If Labour is not aiming to be in government, at the UK level, it needs to say so, and either quietly or noisily shuffle off out of the way.
What does that actually mean?
Another decade of ideologically pure opposition.
and also have a viable alternative to the Conservatives as a party of UK government?
They’re not mutually exclusive. The overriding message of not just the last election, but the last half dozen (including the last Blair ones when they were losing millions of voters) is that labour have done nothing for normal people and don’t listen to them. The answer to that isn’t to focus power with a small number of London based MPs or union leaders.
More power to the members (and non-members)..blah blah blah... turning it into something much more than a political party seeking power for power’s sake.
You didn't mention the Unions and their grip on the party. Are you saying the old ways should be chucked out?
(I'm not saying that would be a backwards step; the Union members themselves could have a say directly, rather than the fat cats at the head of them assuming they know best)
Interesting piece by Roy Hattersley in today’s Observer
Blimey, so the solution is an all out war between the PLP and the membership? It's weird that you rant about the likes of McCluskey, yet then support something like this. They're exactly the same and represent the destructive authoritarian tendency in both the PLP and the big unions which the voters despise. It's time to move on from everything that came before and try something new. The solution is not to be found in the PLP.
Are you saying the old ways should be chucked out?
Yes, absolutely.