[Closed] New car time - which 4WD estate/hatch?

Audi S4, some v8 action?

A4 allroad, very good, I tested A6 but too expensive, so got the A4 and don't regret it.

Octavia 4x4, loads cheaper than the Scout version.

Mondeo 4x4?

Don't allroad's have eventual problems with the air suspension?

Will be watching this with interest.

I also looked at the A4 allroad and liked it. What's the difference between the A4 allroad and A4 quattro other than body styling?

yeti 4x4 ?

my neighbour has one and its been fair good.

I thought All Roads were a no no.

What mileage are you doing? Diesel or Petrol? Age of car you're looking to buy?

Going by what estate cars the farmers drive round here, it would be either a Scoob Forester or Outback.

I'd highly recommend the Octavia 4x4. I've been really happy with mine and would buy another one.

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[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/66452821@N00/8395678228/ ]The only car in Blanchland car park[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/66452821@N00/ ]ritcheyp20[/url], on Flickr

be careful with the older allroads, if the air suspensions goes you will need to win the lottery to fix it, parts are only available from the states.

Jag

Don't want to spend too much, in fact don't need to spend too much (we will be replacing the wife's Freelander soon with a new one, so only need a run-about).

I should've said budget - looking at £2-3k.

Found a 04 Outlook and 02 XC70 for £2k so far. But will look at the Octavia.

£2-£3k - how about a Jaguar X-Type. The 4x4 version had really good reviews at the time.

For that budget i'd say Octavia 4x4.

Previous model petrol Legacy estate? Had one for a while and it was a cracking car, huge boot, tough as nails, reliable, good to drive and chuffing brilliant with winter tyres on.

EDIT: A lot of them come with heated leather seats as standard too which is nice!

Octavia 4x4 is a good call.

Older X-type isn't a bad idea, based on a Mondeo and parts availability/price isn't too bad, especially if you don't mind the odd used part from breakers.

Octy. Or a B5(.5) Passat 4-Motion.

BR

in scotland pay serious attention to the rear arches on the subaru.

i looked at a few local to me last year before deciding not to bother

rear arches were failing pretty spectacularly. Infact id be willing to travel down to south of england to pick one up instead especially from where you are

Trail Rat - agree, and seen that already with the cheap AWD X-Type I bought locally last year - couldn't believe how bad it was underneath.

I liked my X-Type last year, but haven't seen estates cheap enough (yet).

Surely this is a tyre issue, and reverts to the winter tyre arguement. A sensible 2WD vehicle, preferably with decent clearance, will be fine, unless you are doing serious, actual "off-road" driving.

Do you ever foresee having to use diff-lock?

Audi S4, Quattro, V8! 😯 OMG! OMG! Perfect biking car!?

Subaru Outlook,

Is that the city version of the Outback?

Have a look at a Subaru Forester.

A few more inches of clearance than a car but not full-on 4x4 height. No point having 4x4 if you are going to ground it in the snow!

We had the Passat/Audi/Skoda debate and the Audi won out as it's proper permanent 4WD rather than the part time hydraulic doobywatsit that things like Octavia run.

An older A4 Quattro should be pretty bomb proof, my mother in law had an A6 quattro (not allroad) and it tackled all that mid-wales could throw at a rural GP.

The A4 allroad is quite a new model so probably out of your price range, but all it has over the standard quattro is 25mm more ground clearance and slightly different shape to avoid clanging the chin into the ground. The A6 allroad has all the bells and whistles (ride height adjust etc) but the older models are known to be problematic and expensive to fix.

Showing a massive lack of originality but another vote for the Octavia here. We have the Scout which is excellent in the snow. The basic 4x4 is more or less identical mechanically - we've just got a few extra MM ground clearance and some rufty tufty trim.

With a decent set of tyres I was getting through stuff in it last winter here on Dartmoor which was defeating "proper" 4x4s.

"Surely this is a tyre issue, and reverts to the winter tyre arguement. A sensible 2WD vehicle, preferably with decent clearance, will be fine" - i have a FWD berlingo diesel with winter tires - and its good but its still out of its depth when it comes to real snow..... snow with me is measurable in feet instead of inches and your man BR lives in the borders and gets similar.

Diff lock and low box would be absolute essentials for me in at least one of my vehicles but being knowledgable in how to use them are essential , they are not a get out of jail card for being a retard and if used wrongly will just get you even more stuck as friends of mine found out when they visited my old house 😀

With a decent set of tyres I was getting through stuff in it last winter here on Dartmoor which was defeating "proper" 4x4s.

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Zokes. Yes, I admit it, I made it up completely. Premium 4x4s with slick road tyres which weigh the same as a small planet are actually really great in the snow.

but you used the prefix "proper" infront of 4x4 which evidently was a lie.

what you meant to say was faux x faux.

doesnt matter how many wheels are driving if your using the wrong rubber.

Octavia 4x4 owner and I think its great. A bit "wobbly" on motorways and the 2.0ltr petrol NA engine is thirsty - but 4wd will always drink more.

Very capable car, although winter tyres are a must. Before we put them on it was as rubbish in the snow as any other car on summer tyres, but with winter tyres it really will go anywhere. We have just left them on through the summer with no negative effects.

I'd love to change to the Scout with the PD140 diesel engine.

If you aren't overly worried about fuel, look at Subarus as above, there are loads about and since they are reliable there are older ones that are cheap.

Very few B5 Passat 4 motions around imo, and Scouts, Yetis, Octavia 4x4s could all be too new.

There are also quite a few 4x4 Mazda bongos around, could be useful as a utility vehicle if it's not doing many miles. Probably lots of Freelanders about too.

Probably lots of Freelanders about too.

If it's FL1s you're talking about, then there'll be a reason for that

doesnt matter how many wheels are driving if your using the wrong rubber.

..Which was kind of my point? 🙄

[i]Very capable car, although winter tyres are a must. Before we put them on it was as rubbish in the snow as any other car on summer tyres[/i]

tbh The AWD Jag I ran last year was on pretty bald standard Pirelli's and coped admirably - so I'd only be putting winter tyres on if I was keeping a car, and it needed new tyres.

[i]If it's FL1s you're talking about, then there'll be a reason for that [/i]

Currently 110k on my wife's, and only swapping it for a FL2 as it'll soon not be worth enough for a sizeable p/x.

..Which was kind of my point?

Well, yes to a point, but you were trying to compare a car with a 'proper' 4wd. The definition of 'proper' 4wd in most peoples' books does not include low profile tyres.

and only swapping it for a FL2

We have one. Yet to not get anywhere a 'proper' 4wd has got to in it 😉

Have a look at a Subaru Forester

A4 allroad suspension is higher 39mm I think, and a far better ride quality that the standard Quattro for some reason, I've tested both, it's also got a wider track, Stronic gear box is also good, they are expensive though but like the OP I didn't want a 'proper' 4x4. I didn't even consider one until I test drove one, and was won over at that point.

Honda CR-V, big, comfy, cavernous, totally reliable, not great fuel economy, handles like a battleship. Was spending a lot of time down a dirt track in Perthshire ad never had any problems- bear in mind winter before last was bad.
4*4 is not permanent, switches itself on when the car thinks it needs it - i'd perfer to do that myself.

4*4 is not permanent, switches itself on when the car thinks it needs it - i'd perfer to do that myself.

Never worked out why car makers do this. Single most stupid way to make what would have been a reasonable 4by with a bit if car absolutely awful. By all means be auto as well, but a switch wouldn't cost more than 5p

Never worked out why car makers do this.

Fuel economy. And it's not exactly 'switched on' in electrical or mechanical terms, as I understand it, it's a sort of clutch system that means the front wheels aren't driven unless the back ones are almost losing traction, kind of like a freewheel is only activated when you pedal.

Fuel economy. And it's not exactly 'switched on' in electrical or mechanical terms, as I understand it, it's a sort of clutch system that means the front wheels aren't driven unless the back ones are almost losing traction, kind of like a freewheel is only activated when you pedal.

It's usually the front wheels driven on softroaders.

What I was getting at was: great, fit an auto thing so you're only driving two wheels unless the car thinks you need four, but also put a 5p button there so that I, the driver, who has eyes, can activate it manually if I deem it to be required.

I don't think it's activated electrically, so you'd have to install an electric activator and a load of gubbins to force it to override, so it'd cost a lot more than 5p for the switch.

In the same way that having a lever to switch from SS to fixie on your bike would be a lot more difficult than fitting a lever.

I could be wrong though.

EDIT I do seem to be wrong, in fact, googling it.

EDIT #2 Ah, I may be accidentally right - I was thinking of the Haldex system used in many cars, which is in fact electronicall activated, but Honda CRVs up to 2012 use their own system which is in fact internally automatic and is activated by the differental speed of two hydraulic pumps:

http://www.awdwiki.com/en/honda/

the issue is

morons like to drive around with "4x4" engaged when its not needed because its a 4x4 isnt it .....

then you get wind up in the transmission and broken diffs ,half shafts and gear boxes.

remove that user input and it stops them being broken

Then theres the matter of many folk dont actually know how to engage and disengage diff lock and that just because the levers in 2wd or open diff doesnt actually mean that your diff isnt still locked.

I prefer to have control much better to know your locked and in low for hill descent than relying on the traction control to kick in only to find out an ABS sensor has failed when your carreering down the hill backwards 😀

my soft roaders RWD till i ask it not to be so its great fun on private ground.

molgrips, not all haldex systems are electronic.

I prefer to have control much better to know your locked and in low for hill descent than relying on the traction control to kick in only to find out an ABS sensor has failed when your carreering down the hill backwards

That's why generally cars and crossover types have AWD or part-time, and 4x4s intended for actual off-road use have manual diff locks and 4x4.

why does that make it any different ?

roads go downhill too.

We're now on our second - great cars, happy on everything from autobahns to green lanes and tough with it. If you've got your own oil well, get the turbo XT version which will give an Evo a run for its money.

roads go downhill too.

Not very often steeply enough to cause that kind of issue though. Look at it from the manufacturer's point of view - most people will want to keep it simple, so they usually offer just the one car with all the control.

A3 tdi Quattro sport. I have one, it's great.

Our Forester has been brilliant in the harsh winters over here. Would buy another quite happily.

you can understand where all the fuel went in the turbos, plus they give basically the same economy driven hard as gently, so you might as well...

ha ha - if only that was true!! I remember when I had my Impreza, I used to be able to *just* get from work to Carlisle Tesco on a full tank of 98 and then burn best part of another between there and Peebles 😉

Rachel

We went from a 2.0 NA Forester to a 2.5 turbo - huge difference in performance, like driving a sports car. Trying to persuade Mrs Rusty not to view tyres, brakes and clutches as consumables though - she drives it [u]very[/u] hard.

then you get wind up in the transmission and broken diffs ,half shafts and gear boxes.

Only if you've locked the centre diff. Plenty cars work in 4x4 with open diffs until required, from imprezzas through to defenders.

That's why generally cars and crossover types have AWD or part-time, and 4x4s intended for actual off-road use have manual diff locks and 4x4.

My 4x4 doesn't, and whilst the electronics do a remarkable job (and lock the diff in certain modes), I'd be much happier just having a button, or at leas an indicator on the dash to show the diff is locked

Have a look for the W8 tdi passat estate on Ebay, rare, good spec and 4motion..

I am aware of tht - your aware of that

Not all of the great wide public are.

Its almost a weekly topic on landyzone " i was driving round on the roads with my diff lock in and it made a loud noise.

Only acceptable to drive home on hard surfaces with centre diff engaged when either your prop / diff or one of the rear half shafts are in the boot 🙂

Much less hassle for manufacturers to fire in automatic diffs

ha ha - if only that was true!! I remember when I had my Impreza, I used to be able to *just* get from work to Carlisle Tesco on a full tank of 98 and then burn best part of another between there and Peebles

Rachel

I was looking at a 2.5i Outback, maybe need to up the poke 🙂

Unfortunately I don't think there was ever a turbo Outback, even in Japan.

I'm very pleased with my Outback. Spacious, comfortable, excellent load lugger... Does all I wanted.

Also, as it's the 2l diesel fuel consumption is a bit more sensible than the petrol versions. Quoted combined is 44.1 mpg, for my driving, which doesn't include many short journeys, I get at least that on most tanks.

One of the major selling points for me over the competition was interior space, especially rear seat leg room as most of my friends and family are tall. I'm 6'2 and with the drivers seat all the way back I can sit comfortably in the rear.

Blimey!

A Jag X type estate 2wd 2.0 sport diesel can be had for 3k, mid 40's mpg and a bike car/motorway chugger - loads on autotrader.

*gets excited*

So er, what could be wrong on an x type with 100k miles with an MOT?

Anyone want to buy a '52 plate 330i? 🙂

what could be wrong on an x type with 100k miles with an MOT?

Through-flow ventilated floors and sills?

Not 4x4 (only the 2.5 and 3.0 v6 was afaik)

What about an Alfa 159 2.4 Q4?

Oh, they have rust issues? (Not worried about 4x4).

Ohhh yes. They're a mondeo in a floppy hat and shades. Ford program them to dissolve at 7 yrs, 2 months and three days old.

What's wrong with being am up-specced mondeo? They are good cars, aren't they?

Another one for Subaru Legacy. Driven a couple including the old ones and they seem good value at high mileage/age.

What's wrong with being am up-specced mondeo? They are good cars, aren't they

Milkie - Member
Audi S4, Quattro, V8! OMG! OMG! Perfect biking car!?
POSTED 6 HOURS AGO # REPORT-POST

Actually, the 3.0TDI is better in the real world. The S4 is great but it does feel it when it is loaded. The 233PS diesel drives the same empty or fully loaded - it pulls like a train!

For road use - even on poor roads in bad conditions, there is no need for permanent 4 wheel drive. There is also a lot of snobbishness regarding Haldex 4 wheel drive systems. They work really, really well.

[i]Through-flow ventilated floors and sills?[/i]

Yep, the one I bought lasted a year - but had to be careful where I put a jack on the sills as the n/s jacking point moved without the car moving... 😯

But tbh, bought for £1100, sold for £400 as an MOT failure - cheap 12k of luxury (and safe winter miles with the AWD) miles.

head gaskets go on the older 2.5 Outbacks.

Mine did. 🙁

2.0 turbo Forester, ace! regret selling mine the most of any car. More than my old Skyline!

Have a look for the W8 tdi passat estate on Ebay, rare, good spec and 4motion..

I thought the W8 was a petrol engine? Very rare still and 4 motion.
Wasn't aware of a diesel version.

The Outback's the one I sometimes still regret not getting... Good boot, nice to drive, all that good stuff. But the good engines were hard to find and they go through fuel like I go through haribos.

FWIW I've put my scabby mondeo up and down things most folks would be afraid to drive a 4x4 up, with its snow boots on... Turns out scabbiness and pre-dentedness is more useful offroad than the extra drive, means I'm not afraid to drive it 😉

Diesel x type isn't awd. Only 2.5 & 3.0 petrol.

Another bike friendly car buying dream crushed. I'd better come terms that I'm going to end up with an Audi A4 Avant. 😐

[i]Another bike friendly car buying dream crushed. I'd better come terms that I'm going to end up with an Audi A4 Avant.[/i]

Why? Pretty much any decently sized car I'll fit a bike in 🙂

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/end of thread.
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The bike on the back seat routine works much better with a bike bag btw. Done that dozens of times.

Pretty much any decently sized car I'll fit a bike in

Too right: I can get two bikes, a weekend's worth of camping gear and a shed load of beer in the back of the 500!

Another bike friendly car buying dream crushed. I'd better come terms that I'm going to end up with an Audi A4 Avant.

Audi a4 avant all road, would be a good purchase.

Too right: I can get two bikes, a weekend's worth of camping gear and a shed load of beer in the back of the 500!

What is your technique?
I've tried getting a bike into my Mums 500 and failed. Without removing wheels and handlebars it looked impossible.

Of course you reemove wheels. Is that not standard procedure?