Hi,
As above, Neighbour wants to move a fence 1 ft into my garden
He says a post was put in squint for the previous owner 5 years ago and he would like to correct it this week as he has time.
The deeds just show a straight line. The fence is a bit squint.
I've never heard of a story like this ending- after the boundary was moved we both lived happily ever after-. They always seem to end in seething bitterness and acrimony.
My Neighbour is a decent chap. We are civil, nothing more.
We are having a look at it today after work.
Any suggestions for living happily ever after?
Cheers : (
He may seem like a decent chap but he's dropped this on you at the 11th hour. Tell him no until you've looked into it.
Why has he never mentioned this before? and why did he not sort this out with the previous owner at the time?
If it's wrong, then correcting it seems fine. Just remember to hammer frozen sausages into that strip first.
How much do you care about the 1ft he's going to 'take'? Is it obvious that he's right (or wrong)?
These things become disputes because people get disproportionality upset about 'their land'. It'll be as big a deal as you or he make it.
Put the fence on the boundary line as shown on both your deeds. Shake hands, retreat to your diminished garden and weep bitter tears of middle class regret. 🙂
Honestly, if the fence is actually in the wrong spot, and hasn't been there long (five years isn't that long), then I can't see the point of poisoning your relationship with your neighbour over it.
Kill your neighbour.
Mount his severed head on the squinty fence post as a warning to others.
Put a string line up to see how "squint" the fence is and correct it to that line. Make sure you keep an eye on what he's doing so he doesn't gain anything outside of what he legally owns.
Shake hands, have a beer, then bum his dug with frozen sausages!!
Kill your neighbour.
Mount his severed head on the squinty fence post as a warning to others.
Bloody amateur, you're leaving yourself open to revenge from family members there. Kill everyone.
Tell him to put it one foot his way!
Kill everyone.
That would be, quite literally, overkill.
We have two posters advising you to shake hands over it; mods Boris has got two log ins you need to act!
Mark it out. Agree. Virtual hand shake. Walk away.
...and in a month or so bum his dog with frozen Bombers.
Tell him to put it one foot his way!
You need to ascertain whether he's just OCD or if he's buried his ex wife or pirate treasure under that bit of land first.
Suggest he gives you 1ft of the rest of his garden to make the fence straight. If he refuses then consider the following:
Does he have an eye patch, wooden leg and talk in a heavy Cornish accent about his resentment for the Spanish Navy? If he does then it's treasure, if he doesn't it's his ex wife.
Depends how obvious it is that it's squint. Is there an obvious line to draw?
Our garden had a squint fence. Basically 20 odd years ago the previous owner got a fencing co in who just bashed a fence in avoiding anything difficult like stumps and old concrete posts. It was a good bit (18") inside our boundary at one end. The stumps of the original concrete posts had been left so when I redid the fence I just put it back to those, hard to argue with that.
I'd at least want to see the post hole before he goes and moves the fence to confirm it's agreeable.
I *think* the cut-off point is seven years to sort such matters out. I have similar - our old neighbour 'dressed' his garden to make it look visually like he owned more than he did (this was done before we moved in). I checked the deeds and they showed that I was correct and considered speaking to him about it but decided that it wasn't worth the hassle because I didn't actually need the land (it's just a 3ft deep hedge anyway). He has now moved out and we really like the new neighbours so I have decided to drop it completely.
Edit: 12 years
In respect of unregistered land, a “squatter” may have acquired title to their neighbour’s land (so as to “move” the paper-title boundary line) if they have been in exclusive possession of the land for 12 years.
Plant knotweed in it, tell him to fill his boots, report it to the council next year.
Build a wall. A big, beautiful wall. Get him to pay for it, too.
Sounds like the neighbour actually wants to move the fence 1ft into his own garden?
Kill the neighbour's wife/family/bummed dog.
Bury them on the 1ft strip in question.
During his dark bereavement stage, help him move the fence.
Call police.."my neighbour buried his wife/bummed dog RIGHT against his fence line...
Move fence 3feet BACK into HIS garden whilst he's in jail.
Do the same the other side.
Play tennis in larger garden.
DrP
As above, how do you know, how can you find out, how can he prove that the current kink gives you more than it should, and his proposed action corrects it? Could easily be nibbling away at your garden already and his straightening robs you of even more.
Thanks!
That's cheered me up loads!
Yes there is some dropping it at the 11th hour. He works in "building" I suspect he has suddenly got the time to do it. We will be looking at it together today.
How much do you care about the 1ft he’s going to ‘take’? Is it obvious that he’s right (or wrong)?
These things become disputes because people get disproportionality upset about ‘their land’. It’ll be as big a deal as you or he make it.
I don't know how upset I am, depends on where 1 foot is! I'd rather live happly every after and avoid the
etreat to your diminished garden and weep bitter tears of middle class regret. 🙂
This is my plan
Put a string line up to see how “squint” the fence is and correct it to that line. Make sure you keep an eye on what he’s doing so he doesn’t gain anything outside of what he legally owns.
Shake hands, have a beer, then bum his dug with frozen sausages!!
Well not the last bit : )
You need to ascertain whether he’s just OCD or if he’s buried his ex wife or pirate treasure under that bit of land first.
When I got the place. Under the living room floor boards was completely clean. As in not even a spider web, not one hint of plaster dust or anything. There was a skateboard type thing to move about under the boards. The carpets were nailed down and had paper under them, paper that had faded through the carpets, suggesting nothing had been done under there for 10+ years. Thats where the "treasure" was : ) or something else? The previous owner of my house was hoovering under floor board ocd, that doesn't tally with any thing squint. The workbench he built is PERFECT and made of 20cm thick boards.
Sounds like the neighbour actually wants to move the fence 1ft into his own garden?
Nope he definitely wants to move it into my garden!
It's 1ft of garden. It's not worth the hassle. It's probably worth a bottle of Lagavulin though.
You could drink it together, passing a quaich to and fro over the new boundary and watch for shooting stars together. You'll cherish that moment and remain lovers for ever. The fence, and the notional boundary it represents, shall crumble and fade like the shooting stars.
Nope he definitely wants to move it into my garden!
I think the suggestion by @daveyboy is that the fence might be currently going into the neighbour's garden because of the kink (ie, you currently have some of their garden and he wants it back).
Obvious thing is to mark the legal boundary and put the fence where it's supposed to be. That way you both get the garden you're supposed to have. Anyone who complains about that is being unreasonable.
I had a very similar thing, move fence 1ft into my garden it ended up going 1ft the other way.
Don't expect a Christmas card 🤣
He says a post was put in squint for the previous owner 5 years ago and he would like to correct it this week as he has time.
Why didn't he correct it five years ago?
It’s 1ft of garden. It’s not worth the hassle.
Awesome, can I have a foot of your garden? At what point does it become worth the hassle? Two feet? Six? All of it?
Obvious thing is to mark the legal boundary and put the fence where it’s supposed to be.
This would seem to be the best course of action. If you can't ascertain where it should be, then how do you know he's right and the 'kink' isn't actually in his favour?
I think the suggestion by @daveyboy is that the fence might be currently going into the neighbour’s garden because of the kink (ie, you currently have some of their garden and he wants it back)
Aah! Yes if it is his garden, he is welcome to it back 😀
Obvious thing is to mark the legal boundary and put the fence where it’s supposed to be. That way you both get the garden you’re supposed to have. Anyone who complains about that is being unreasonable.
No complaints, everybody happy and everyone thinks everyone is reasonable is exactly what I’m aiming for!
Christmas cards would be awesome. No Christmas cards Would be the status quo. It’s other things getting posted through letterboxes I’d like to avoid!
Awesome, can I have a foot of your garden?
I have a bit that's 25m wide and about 3m deep that you can have if you want.
It's a pain in the arse if i'm entirely honest, but, by all means, fill yer boots.
From a serious perspective, you need to look at the title plan and description.
Even then it can be difficult to determine where the boundary is.
Let him move it the foot, but then when he's on holiday or something, move his house 1 foot nearer the fence.
That'll teach him not to duck with you.
…and in a month or so bum his dog with frozen Bombers.
It’s a good job I’m the only person working in the office today as I’ve just burst out laughing.
Insist that he replaces the fence with a wall at his expense. Then knock it down in the dead of night and claim that local kids did it. Escalation! This is war etc
Put the fence on the boundary line as shown on both your deeds
Your deeds are better than mine. Mine have no measurements on and look like they were drawn by a 4 year old.
hols2
MemberObvious thing is to mark the legal boundary and put the fence where it’s supposed to be. That way you both get the garden you’re supposed to have. Anyone who complains about that is being unreasonable.
The downside with this is that the legal boundary, er, isn't. Essentially under what is called the 'general boundary rule', the legal boundary between properties is not shown on the title plan - that is just an indication as to the area where the boundary is.
Unless the boundary has been 'fixed' - i.e. determined by application to the Land Registry by reference to an actual measured survey, then the title plan is only indicative of the boundary lines.
The only way to get a definitive answer as to the boundary would be to commission a boundary survey and then apply to the LR for determination, all of which is quite costly and takes a while, and will deffo get your neighbour's hackles up!
Even then it can be difficult to determine where the boundary is.
This - at the scale they are drawn, a pencil line would be about 1ft wide at 100% scale 🙂
Why didn’t he correct it five years ago?
It’s 1ft of garden. It’s not worth the hassle.
This. I suspect he’s suddenly got some time off work due to the current situation.
Obvious thing is to mark the legal boundary
Hopefully we can go from an older bit of fence. That would be easy 😀
Unless the boundary has been ‘fixed’ – i.e. determined by application to the Land Registry by reference to an actual measured survey, then the title plan is only indicative of the boundary lines
That’s exactly the sort of thing I would like to avoid
This – at the scale they are drawn, a pencil line would be about 1ft wide at 100% scale 🙂
Even more so if that’s the case! That is exactly the long bitter drawn out thing to avoid.
Hopefully it’s just one foot of garden
Had a similar issue (albeit the other way around) with my neighbour some 12 years ago. We'd drawn plans for an extension, which had all been approved (and the neighbour was fine with them). It was only when we were doing a check immediately before we started work that we noticed that something didn't add up. After a bit of checking, it became apparent that the boundary fence was nowhere near where it should have been and was some 3ft from the centreline of the two (semi-detached) properties, to the favour of my neighbour. We'd never noticed as they have an odd extension on the back of their house which hid the asymmetry, but it was wrong nevertheless and, annoyingly, in the way of my new extension!
To cut a long story short, went through it with him, reviewed the plans, he agreed that it needed to be moved and we did so. We didn't take the fence change all of the way down the (very long) gardens, but just a few meters which worked out fine for both of us. Fortunately, with a semi like ours, it was pretty bloody obvious that it was wrong, which makes it much easier to put right and this very much helped the cause.
We're still living here and still on good terms with the neighbour, so I obviously did something right 🙂
Is there a common sense interpretation of the deeds? Does the fence line follow a building, or kerb line? Does it bisect a gap between two buildings?
People tend not to draw random lines.
Have you tried throwing stones?
Is the neighbour giving gifts of veg to the council?
I'd almost forgotten about this rather good thread - worth a read
https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/my-bloody-allotment-is-being-taken-over/
Well I contacted the council and did some serious digging, turns out that he is the exfinance director and was given the allotment a far few years ago after a particularly nasty incident which meant that he had to move house, whilst I feel sorry for the fella he is being a complete arse now, I'm not going to give up my family plot as I'm committed to it working, why the hell should I just because he wants to oust me?
People tend not to draw random lines.
Unless they're tring to maximise the amount of plots that they can fit in a newbuild estate with all curved roads. You can end up with some oddly shaped and unevenly distributed gardens as a result.
I live in a street which was basically a series of Victorian builds which extended way from the main part of the town.
Unless they were built as a terrace or a pair of semi detached houses then there are no two the same in the entire street. It's a hotch-potch of styles, sizes and plots.
There is no real discernable logic to the spacing of boundaries between them either.
This organic style of impromptu town planning is very common.
I’d almost forgotten about this rather good thread – worth a read
https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/my-bloody-allotment-is-being-taken-over/
/blockquote>As with many STW threads, the best way to read it is read the first page, the last page, and then just imagine what happened in the pages in between:)
Sneak out in the middle of the night,
Move all the other posts so squinty post is now in line....
Offer to help , then query which post is squinty 🤔
Or, failing that just help out moving 1 post,
You appear helpful, but all along you really just checking new alignment
No one's asked for pics or a Google Map satellite shot?
No one’s asked for pics or a Google Map satellite shot?
No need to ask. He forgot to tick the box about valuing privacy today so it is all in his profile
Resolution
We had a chat
We put a bit of string up that we are both happy with. The fence is a foot out in the worst bit.
It is my problem, so I started to move the offending fence posts. The reason they are in squint is there is lumps of concrete where the posts should be.
So that will be a right pain in the back shifting them.
He’s happy I’m going to sort it.
It’s all amicable.
I’ve got a fun 1/2 of digging due to some previous person doing a quick and squint job. Ho him. Could be worse.
Any suggestions for getting concrete fence posts out that are less hard than smashing them up with a pick axe?
Have to wonder why this wasn't resolved at time up fence going up!
I guess who ever put the fence up couldn’t be bothered to do it right! The fence replaced some that was fully rotted, apparently.
So it probably looked better. It’s not till you look out your window at something that’s squint for years you decide to do something about it. The rest of the garden is immaculate. I guess moving the fence is the final price in the perfect puzzle.
SDS drill and chisel will do the job albeit slowly. Unless either of you have an engine crane and plates to lay it on.
I’ve got a fun 1/2 of digging due to some previous person doing a quick and squint job. Ho him. Could be worse.
Any suggestions for getting concrete fence posts out that are less hard than smashing them up with a pick axe?
Had a similar issue with the fence at the bottom of my garden. Too much of a pain to try to dig them out, my mate and I just dug new holes, (enough of a pain because of the nature of the ground), put in new posts and horizontal timbers, then featherboarded right across, with sacrificial weather boards along the bottom. So much easier than fannying around with panels anyway.
How big is your garden? 1ft out of a skinny little town garden is a bigger deal than 1 ft out of half an acre. Plus agree with earlier comments - the line on your deeds is an indication of where the boundary is and not intended to be absolutely accurate. As others have said depending on how good the drawing is the line itself is often thicker than 1ft to scale. We bought a barn to convert, with lines indicating what was our garden behind, drawn with what appeared to be a child’s felt tip and to scale the line was nearly a metre wide!
Why’s it your problem out of interest? If he wants to sort it and has time, now you’ve agreed I’d let him do the hard work!
Why’s it your problem out of interest? If he wants to sort it and has time, now you’ve agreed I’d let him do the hard work!
I was wondering that also. He does seem to have pulled your pants down somewhat, do you not have a dog?
After five years of not caring he suddenly wants work doing to reclaim what is currently a chunk of your garden, are you not being generous and amenable simply by not objecting to him cracking on with it?
Just to get a sense of the area of the land we are talking about, what is the area in bummed dogs and buried wives? I think I'd start to give a toss at about one wife and 3 bummed dogs.
is his wife fit? what about his dog?
Just when Id started to worry about my age, fast developing curmudgeonly attitude, propensity to ride what is basically a touring bike thats been given a trendier name, and STW forum not being as funny as in the past, a thread like this comes along and the whole world seems slightly brighter.
Nice work all.
As with many STW threads, the best way to read it is read the first page, the last page, and then just imagine what happened in the pages in between:)
was funny
Get him to dig out the concrete if he is that bothered about it.
Why does he need the extra land now after 5 years?
Is he planning on selling the house or is he wanting to build a massive extention and he needs the extra 1ft so he can build right up to the boarder and still get round?
At least make him dig out the concrete body!
Ps you sound like a great neighbour!
I thought he had spare time and he was going to do it?
Why does he need the extra land now after 5 years?
Perhaps he just wants a straight fence and his own land back?
As he's in building ask him to get a breaker. You're doing him a favour putting it right, it'd be fair for him to help especially if he's got time on his hands.
How big is the garden, not massive, not tiny.
The bit in question is triangle shape that’s caused by 3 fence posts in the wrong place - dodging the old concrete bases.
I can’t be much more than 1m square and will make no difference to me.
I though he had spare time and was going to do it. I was wrong! It is on my side, it is my problem now. It will need doing eventually. For the sake of avoiding middle class tears of regret ( I am totally adding that to my every day chat) I might as well do it soon. Also I have now said I will so I’m definitely doing it.
You can see the squint fence out of their house. Their garden has been getting neater and nicer for 3 years. I guess it’s the last thing on the list. The rest of the garden now looks like something out a magazine spread with perfect verges, dead straight grass and other things that look hard work.
That breaker looks ideal. I’ll suggest it to him. He has (I think) offered to help.
He has (I think) offered to help.
When my fence went down in the wind a year of so back (posts on my side) my neighbour stepped in to help and to be fair did most of the breaking up of the concrete so we could bury the new post. Mostly manual and a LOT of hard work to break it up it would have taken a hell of a lot longer on my own, hopefully your neighbour is as handy as mine!
Any suggestions for getting concrete fence posts out that are less hard than smashing them up with a pick axe?
I redid a bit of fence a few years ago and mostly managed to dodge the buried concrete* but there was one post/concrete lump which due to the location I absolutely had to get out.
Breaking it up (by hand) was a non-starter.
I ended up extracting it by using another fence post as a lever, and basically levering it out of the ground; having first dug away the soil on top of the concrete of course. Still a bit of a ball-ache, but possibly a useful technique if you don't manage to get hold of a breaker.
* don't worry, I did this by shifting the post position along the line of the fence; so there will be no STW thread in 15 years time talking about some bloody idiot who did a quick bodge job 20 years ago and now my neighbor wants a foot of my garden**
** although given this thread has been fun, maybe that's a bit of a shame. Makes you think, eh?
Depending how big and firm the concrete is and what it's made of in terms of ballast it might be easier to make a fencepost sized hole in the concete...
Having a not dissimilar experience our ballast is chert and a right pain and the "old fence post" turned out to be a whole path... ideally would have been removed but ...
i removed the old lumps of concrete by digging down with the post hole bar on both sdies until i could get my hand under. put a 5 tonne strope under it , cinched it , attached it to the land rover recovery point, low box 2nd gear and drove forward...... some of those concrete blocks boulders and fence posts were a fair size and tore up some huge parts of the ground.... but it certainly cut down on the manual labout.
Pardon moi!
just you're all missing the point, when OP could just buy the pirate's house instead of messing about with sausages & bumming
unless he's that way inclined
Any suggestions for getting concrete fence posts out that are less hard than smashing them up with a pick axe?
trinitrotoluene (also handy if the situation later escalates)
Any suggestions for getting concrete fence posts out that are less hard than smashing them up with a pick axe?
Oh oh.... I know this one - is it a tractor?
Seriously those things are very heavy and you can't smash them as they have reinforcing bars through them.
I had to remove two and luckily had a big tractor with which to pull them. Getting them from the ground into the skip on my own required hydraulics.
Well that’s all finished now.
It’s still squint but the neighbor gave me a hand and held the posts while I postcreated them.
He said he’s happy, his missus said thanks- the only positive thing I’ve heard her say in 3 years- mostly I’ve avoided talking to her!
Try to be as tactful as possible.
Say that you want to double check where the correct boundry line should be. If either of you come to sell, and the fence is in the wrong place (now, or after his suggested rebuild), then complications could arise for all involved.
All that malarkey and it's still pissed?
Well this has brightened the morning. I take it you used a banana as a straight edge? 🤣
**** me, how bad was it before????
I suggest you just move the post one m the other way to avoid the concrete, wait 3 years or so and then just ask for it back
The fence has been moved. The time for advice was a month ago. Do people not read the threads before posting?
Advice on making it official now, to ease any future 'selling' issues is wise.
You must be new here. Welcome to STW 🤣Do people not read the threads before posting?