[Closed] Multicultural Britain

Separate communities where, despite being many generations in, virtually no integration whatsoever has taken place. Separate communities leading parallel lives.

As an aside I vaguely recall that in singapore the housing commission (I think most citizens get housing through the state) operates a racial quota system so that no new buildings would take any particular racial identity. (I might have totally misunderstood as I was not a citizen and so didn't have any contact with the commission).

It IS a big problem and it's going to take a hell of a long time to sort out.

I'd start by having proportional quotas for all schools, from nursery onward.

I'd also ban all religious schools, gender segregation and creation based 'science' lessons, but that's another story.

+1

There's nowhere I don't really feel safe in Burnley - not been here that long and ignorance is bliss, but I feel a lot safer here than I did in (racially mixed and well integrated) bits of Manchester.

Don't you live in Cliviger though, which is very white (BNP territory?) but not really quite in Burnley? Some of the schools/youth centres I worked in had a mix - not sure how many friendships there were across the different groups though TBH.

I'd start by having proportional quotas for all schools, from nursery onward.

I'd also ban all religious schools, gender segregation and creation based 'science' lessons, but that's another story.

Isn't that the opposite of liberal multiculturalism?

Don't you live in Cliviger though, which is very white (BNP territory?) but not really quite in Burnley?

What's the racial mix of the area I live got to do with anything?
Seriously, why is that an issue?
You live in a town almost exclusively white.
How do you find it affects you?

And it's Tory, not BNP, which is bad enough.
Although the couple over the road do have a Union Flag in their garden. 😐

(I voted Green & Labour, btw!)

The bit I live in is ten minutes walk from Turf Moor and right next to what we've been told is a 'dodgy' estate.
Seems fine to me - much nicer than Beswick, Miles Platting, Dam Head, Langley, Newton Heath, bits of Collyhurst, Cheetham Hill etc etc....

Isn't that the opposite of liberal multiculturalism?

Mrs Binners did a lot of work in schools in the areas mentioned. They're almost entirely segregated. There are 'white' schools, and 'Asian' schools. Unfortunately Blair's academy programme (and it's appetite for Faith Schools) entrenched this, and Goves Free Schools programme will make it worse. So segregation becomes the norm at the very age where the opposite should be being taught.

Although the couple over the road do have a Union Flag in their garden.

Why is that a problem?

I thought there had a been an effort to claim the Union flag back from the right wing?

If you go to Scotland or Wales you see loads of national flags and it isn't a problem. Even the Cornish fly their flag!

... Has been partially successful

And when I was referring to walking round Burnley feeling safe, I meant ALL of Burnley, including the majority Asian areas, not just the bit I live in. 🙂

As I say, not been here long, but 99% of Burnley is ace.

gobuchul - Member

[b]
Although the couple over the road do have a Union Flag in their garden.[/b]

Why is that a problem?

Because, IME, a garden with a huuuge flagpole flying a Union Flag is often, but not exclusively a sign of small mindedness, rather than a statement of pride in our mixed racial identity.

Because, IME, a garden with a huuuge flagpole flying a Union Flag is often, but not exclusively a sign of small mindedness,

Rather small minded of you to make that assumption.

rather than a statement of pride in our mixed racial identity

I am not mixed race AFAIK, so how can I take pride in that identity?*

*I know there are no "pure" racial identities and we are all a bunch of mongrel's really.

I was referring to our identity as a nation.

If you can't take pride in the fact that we are a mostly harmonious nation of many races and cultures then you'd appear to be part of the problem rather than part of the solution.

TBH, I think the British press have a significant role in souring race relations in the UK. Some of the stuff that's written in the Mail / Express is outrageous. If you don't directly know anybody from a different racial background, your going to get your points of reference from nasty scumbags(sorry, editorial staff) who like to make out that everyone is against white middle Englanders.

I was referring to our identity as a nation.

If you can't take pride in the fact that we are a mostly harmonious nation of many races and cultures then you'd appear to be part of the problem rather than part of the solution.

Having a flagpole in a prominent place such as a front garden which is clearly visible from a public road and flying the union flag (although St George's is generally what I see) is clearly designed to be a statement and an invitation to others passing by to form opinions of the occupants.

The opinion I come to is that the occupants are small minded ****s. The fact that I might not have come to the "correct" opinion, as judged by the occupants, is of no significance to me.

Invite people to form an opinion ? .......accept that it might not be the one that you preferred.

*I know there are no "pure" racial identities and we are all a bunch of mongrel's really.

There are a multitude of people here in the UK, born in Africa, or born of African parents, who are very racially "pure". Indeed recent DNA research suggests that they are likely to be uniquely free of even neanderthal genes.

The fact that I might not have come to the "correct" opinion, as judged by the occupants, is of no significance to me.

It bloody well should be!

Why ?

You're saying you don't care what's actually true? You only care about your opinion?

You're saying you don't care what's actually true?

I'm saying that I don't care if I haven't come to the "correct" opinion as judged by the occupants.

If I put a "Vote Labour" poster in my window, or a poster saying "the Lord died on the cross for us sinners", or put a huge flagpole in my front garden and flew the hammer and sickle from it, I would clearly be making a statement and expect others to judge it.

There is little doubt that many would walk past and think "what a tosser". Should they be bothered that this wouldn't be my preferred opinion ?

What ernie says, all of it

I believe anyone who aspires to be intelligent should consider multiple possibilities, and not judge based on incomplete evidence.

If I saw a flagpole I'd think "that's a bit unusual in the UK, I wonder why they have that" and consider a few scenarios.

If I saw a flagpole I'd think "that's a bit unusual in the UK, I wonder why they have that" and consider a few scenarios.

😆

Another ernie+1.

People who don't like immigration IME are often rather confused in their thinking I find...
e.g. My Mum being a bit anti immigration in a chat we had recently, even after I pointed out my brother lives in Ireland and is therefore an immigrant and my Dad is 1/4 German and comes from immigrant stock (and I'm an 8th German). So she doesn't like immigrants but she's fine with her husband and sons...

Or the bloke at work who was triumphant when UKIP did well this week. He doesn't like immigrants but he works in the European HQ of a very well known financial services company and gets on perfectly well with his colleagues who are immigrants - sits next to a South African lady and a lad who's half Serbian... He's basically afraid of 'the other' but when they're real people who he knows, it's ok... 😯

Well Ernie, that's me well put down.

He's basically afraid of 'the other' but when they're real people who he knows, it's ok...

brooess - good post, millions of people up and down the country in similar situations no doubt, yet they believe the propoganda spurted out by Farage and his merry men. The last time that happened, we had this mess!

[img] [/img]

what they do is they take the ones they know and - ask him I bet they say this as well - say they are not like all the rest they are different from them - ie like us

Its odd how resilient the attitude is to counter examples of the bigotry

if you really want i can give you examples of this /scholarly papers.

So, Americans flying the stars and stripes outside their homes are dickheads too then. At least we can agree on something.

Ernie have you taken down your red flag as well?

It would be a shame if "flying the flag" became it sole responsibility of our "representatives on the terraces." Having lived and worked in different countries in the world, I find our particular phobia about displaying our flag rather odd. Far better that the stigma (perceived or otherwise) be removed.

Indeed but how do you do it?

Ironically the only time it happens and people tend to not think negative things is when the world cup is on

representatives on the terraces."

As for stigma I would assume it was true that the majority of those who fly the flag are still right wing little englanders. It is getting better but it has some way to go and the stigma exists because it is/was true

So, Americans flying the stars and stripes outside their homes are dickheads too then.

(I would assume that anyone flying a UK flag outside their UK house was probably a bit of a bellend too.)

dont american dickheads fly the confederate flag ?

Is Britain a multicultural country?

I think our language gives that away. Much of our vocabulary comes from elsewhere. 🙂

We can oppose multiculturalism, but cultural osmosis will beat that barrier any day.

dont american dickheads fly the confederate flag ?

Only the ones who take exceptional pride in being dickheads.

🙂

Love conquers all, eventually.

It did in my family, most of my great grandparents were were from all over Europe.
Some of their kids married immigrants too.

As to the flag, Molgrips has a point.
In this case it could be that the occupants aren't racists at all.
They may have lost a child in the forces for instance.

Experience still points me to my first conclusion, but I might be wrong.

If I passed house in the UK flying the Union Jack, I'd assume they were BNP supporters etc...

I could be wrong, but I suspect 99% of the time I'd be right...

I live in China.
I have never lived in a Country that is so proud to be what they are.
If I hung my St.Georges outside, I'd probably be carted off to some jail for some time.
My daughter is 2 1/2 and she knows the Chinese National Anthem off by heart (from her Kindergarten)
Those with the flag outside of their house in the UK, for some reason or another, may feel that they are loosing their Nationality.

Last week, I was in a place in China, where there such a mix of Middle Eastern people, it was hard to believe that could live in such harmonious synchrony. Normally they would be fighting at each others throats, but here, they get along peacefully.
I tentatively asked why this could be, and the common reply was, you can do what you want, but you can't promote it.
It's not in your face, and that, maybe what some people are afraid of.

I doubt this is an issue anywhere else where flying the national flag is seen as racists - or more accurately the folk flying it likely to be perceived as racist.

The Spanish don't generally fly the flag, and those who do are almost exclusively right-wing voters - not racists, but definitely conservatives and probably practising catholic. It's seen a bit of a renaissance recently, though, thanks to the football team's success at international level. But it's still mainly associated with nationalist/monarchist/catholic right-wingers.

If I hung my St.Georges outside, I'd probably be carted off to some jail for some time.

Not exactly an open, free, multicultural society.

I have never lived in a Country that is so proud to be what they are.

It's not in your face

I never said it was a good Country, I'm only here for the family.
Yes it's not open, and it's definitely not free.
But the people are still proud of their Country despite it's failings (which they acknowledge beneath their breath)
I feel, that looking at the UK and even now maybe Europe, that people are wanting to return (back to old days) of who they are.
I am not saying it's a good nor a bad thing, it's just an observation from a British person, now looking in.

You cannot return as the past is a foreign country; they do things differently there 😉

The problem is that times change and some people do not change with the times and they hold on to some sort of rose tinted halcyon view of a country that probably never existed and wont return

We wont become "british" again - they mean largely homogeneous and white I assume when they say it.

Maybe I should stop reading LeCarre books, but does the whole establishment agree?

Last week, I was in a place in China, where there such a mix of Middle Eastern people, it was hard to believe that could live in such harmonious synchrony. Normally they would be fighting at each others throats, but here, they get along peacefully.

So a bit like the UK then.

ernie.. I think the difference is, the promotion.
Everything is Chinese.
Now if you walk into an Turkish/Afghanistan/Libyan place and you wanted your own time, then you would be pointed upstairs to that place.
No offence to the locals created, and very well tolerated.

Note... this is from a perspective from the outside.

Looking back at the UK, I hear that people feel their are encroached on.

It's a perspective, not my point of view.

Everything is Chinese? Good thing China is a monoculture where there's only one ethnic group that only speaks one language so that there's a single Chinese culture and no-one disagrees with what it constitutes.