Got home from holiday last night and found a letter from the council claiming I might be breaching planning laws by running a Bed and Breakfast and mountain bike centre from my domestic dwelling. (Neighbourly tip off apparently)
The Bed and Breakfast side I can't argue with and we are already complying with all the regulations etc etc but the mountain bike centre??? How would that be possible, my garden is less than 0.3 acres and I have one spare bike that I have lent to a guest once! I do run mountain bike skills courses based about a mile away and will cycle past on the bridleway next to my house with the group during the day. But surely that isn't running a mountain bike centre from my house?
Please tell me the council isn't going persue this and make my life miserable just because I don't get on with one of my neighbours!
What tyres for No_discerning_taste's back garden? 😆
NIMBYism strikes again!
speak to your neighbours?
Just write back and explain that
a) you aren't running a business
b) you don't get on with your neighbours and this is just your neighbours wasting council time
maybe respond the the council saying : "i dont, but i am heavily invovled in the world of cycling, i own a few bikes and sometimes even help others, if you guys are happy for me to run a centre from my adress then i might consider it as a future option, however for now i do not... and do not plan to.
p.s i think you should be a little more worried about the underground basement next door... i've heard muffled screaming at night!"
Got home from holiday last night and found a letter from the council claiming I might be breaching planning laws by running a Bed and Breakfast and mountain bike centre from my domestic dwelling. (Neighbourly tip off apparently)
Did you tho........or is this a shameless plug of your B&B?
😉
Just write back, saying that you run legitimate businesses, ie The B&B at your address, and mountain biking guiding and skills coaching which takes place on the bridleways around the area, that as far as you are aware you are meeting all regulatory requirements and ask them to be more specific about how they feel that you are breaching planning laws. Offer to meet them to clear up any confusion.
"Not providing everything a mountain biker needs in a location like this would be blasphemy! So naturally we have bike washing facilities as well as secure bike storage, tools and a work stand. We have a wide selection of maps and route cards with rides to suit any level of mountain biker ranging from a few minutes (yes there is an amazing 5 minute loop starting from the front door) to 8+ hours with varied terrain."
sounds like the councils right to me!
But do you actually do all the administration of the mountain biking courses from your home? This is probably what they are getting at...
Don't you have to notify the council if you start running any business from your house as it changes it from being a purely domestic dwelling?
Also, if you are complying with all the requisite regulations for the B&B, wouldn't the council know about that? So why are they writing to you about that bit?
They're just telling you about the complaint. When they come round they'll realise what an idiot your neighbour's being.
Nothing to hide 🙂
bruneep, I wish I was joking!
To be honest this neighbour is primarly angry about the B&B (none of the other neigbours are thankfully) and the mountain biking thing I'm sure is a way of trying to close the B&B down. I'm quite upset because to please this lady I'm deliberatly turning people away that try and book to keep the visitors down. So in the last few months we have been quite quiet with occupancy of about 2 nights a week and I thought this might have pleased her....and then I got this letter! Very annoying!
Thanks for the advice. I'll see what the council says when I speak to them.
Sorry about all the banging, just banging my head on the desk, at the thought of somebody from the council actually doing some work investigating a complaint.
Ask for a freedom of information request to your local council asking for all memos emails and leetters along with details of all phone calls relating to this matter, they have to provide a responce, if not appeal.
Sounds to me like you are running a business from home on the cheap. Take this as an oppertunity to get the council to advise you n everything you need to be legit.
My first thought was someone running a business that is 'avoiding' the council would most likely not have relevant insurance tc when things go belly up or someone has a bad accident.
Do things properly and your neighbours can go away and paarp for all you care
Horatiohufnagel, yes I'd love to have mountain bikers come and stay but unfortunately they don't seem to come in pairs (only double bedrooms) and want to mountain bike in the Peak! Of all the guests I've ever had only two has brought their own bikes to do some cycling!
Just spoken to the council and they seemed reasonable enough about things so will just put it in writing now and send it off! Hopefully that is the end of that!
Just tell the neighbour you are going to drop the cyclists because there's more money in catering to biker gangs like the Hells Angels and suggest she gets double glazing because they are a tad noisy in the small hours.
If the B&B and the training courses are legit in their own right I can't see the problem, unless you aren't paying the correct rates and/or insurances.
Your neighbour's definition of a "mountain bike centre" is probably designed to get the response she is looking for from the council. Just stick to the letter of the law and get on with it.
Clearly trying to keep numbers down is not placating your neighbour, so get busy bringing those bookings in.
Whats her problem anyway? Is it impacting on her way of life as a moaney old bat? If your B+B complies with all the relevant regs, then tell her to do one.
TheLittlestHobo- I know where you are coming from and in the first few months when we started it was evident how expensive it was going to be to run a business. The home and contents insurance is over £1500/year! When environmental health came to inspect it costs us another £400 to get the necessary equipment to comply etc. As far as I know we are ok now so maybe you are right I should just let the neighbour baarp away which she is exceedingly good at! Another neighbour has thanked us for distracting her away from them so they don't get it in the neck anymore!
Go to the mattresses.
epicyclo - love that idea! She already has double glazing but funnily enough changed the roman blinds to venetian blinds so she could keep an eye out for any guests!
[i]Don't you have to notify the council if you start running any business from your house as it changes it from being a purely domestic dwelling?[/i]
Not if its just a 'home office' (for the Mtb-ing), having customers/suppliers come is something else though - but then I guess its tied up with the B&B anyway - which is ligit?
To be honest, I'd have a quiet word with her.
I'd point out the bookings you turned down, and that in light of your consideration to her is not reciprocated, the letter from the council and her complaint about you has made you reconsider, and you might now be very much busier, unless she gives up her campaign against you.
And do the police realise she's running a brothel?
Just ignore it and run your business the way you want to. She's the type to complain about every permutation so **** her and do what suits you.
what nzcol says nothing you do except stopping the business and moving away will please her so live your life how you please.
It's the ski lift to the roof top that's pissed off the nieghbour
Also bear in mind that some people will keep pushing and pushing until you stand up for yourself, and that being nice to them will get you nowhere. I have some awkward neighbours at a business premises and wasted a lot of time trying to be diplomatic. Just keep everything to the letter of the law and get on with things.
Just keep everything to the letter of the law and get on with things.
Agree 100%. I'd certainly not be turning down paying custom with the hope of keeping someone like that happy. I suspect that if you stopped running a B&B entirely, she'd start on something else. Probably that everyone on the street should paint all the external woodwork to match, or that one of your trees is too tall.
Maybe a lifetime of having her shoes pissed in has embittered her to the world.
I'm deliberatly turning people away that try and book to keep the visitors down
I'm not convinced the MTB is your biggest problem. Better stop turning people away (they will never come back)
Maybe we should have a singletrackworld camping/sleepover in my house/garden type party. Now that would make her appreciate the quiet times at least! And of course you are all my personal friends and I'm obvioulsy not charging you so I might not be braking any rules either!!
OMG I know where you are, some family friends live just along the road near Hague Bar. Top part of the world!
Reading your website, could sort of (if you were that way inclined) be interpreted as you running the MTB Business from the B&B.
[i]Not providing everything a mountain biker needs in a location like this would be blasphemy! So naturally we have [b]bike washing facilities [/b]as well as [b]secure bike storage, tools and a work stand.[/b] We have a wide selection of maps and route cards with rides to suit any level of mountain biker ranging from a few minutes (yes there is an amazing 5 minute loop starting from the front door) to 8+ hours with varied terrain.[/i]
Man I could write a book about my next door Bitching old bag .
OK it started 28 years ago when we moved in and my mate delivered 10 fenceing panels
he stepped on to her lawn ( open plan at the fromt ) and she gave him a bollocking to which he told her to sex off .
she then comlained to the council about my taxed and insured white van parked on my own drive .
next came the Caravan parked on my drive which she could not even see from her house another complaint to the council
a few years passed while we had kids who then grew up and played in the street with their mates on roller blades they got real pissy about this one when I made the kids a ramp and complained again all to no action from the council to me .
Kids grew up and I decided to be young again and built a landrover Trialer in my garage .
this resulted in 2 visits from the council to check out the alledged noise levels again they measured nothing illegal and had me run all my powertools for their assesment .
funny there was no complaints when I started useing the Trialer even though the 4 ltr V8 had straight through pipes but only ran it on to the trailer on tickover unless she had really annoyed us .
3 years without a complaint while we used it twice a month .
sold that and started making the bike lights to soon receive a visit from the planning dept saying they had a report of a bike light factory in my garage so showed him round and he wrote a nice letter saying nothing illegal going on .
We went on holiday and the kids had a bbq when we had gone police round as she had complained about the smoke form the bbq as they struggled to light it . ( it was one of those big oil drum jobs ) result the nice police men had a coffee and lit the barby for the kids .
so after 28 years of complaining and her son is a bobby so we have got used to her taking our picture when ever we make a noise .
they have not yet pinned anything on us .
so my advise would be to keep doing it if it is legal and get on with your lives and dont bother about your neighbour.
in fact keep it legal and annoy the hell out of her.
Holy sh*t, trout - what an old boot. You've done well to stay patient.
No_discerning_taste - Memberyes I'd love to have mountain bikers come and stay but unfortunately they don't seem to come in pairs (only double bedrooms)
told you 😛 😆
Pick-axe handle + shallow chalk lined trench + secluded woodland location.
geoffj - MemberReading your website, could sort of (if you were that way inclined) be interpreted as you running the MTB Business from the B&B.
+1 from me reading it too. In fact there's no mention of 'another' location for the business at all.
yes I'd love to have mountain bikers come and stay but unfortunately they don't seem to come in pairs (only double bedrooms)
Start of a cyclist dating business as well 😉
Sounds like you're getting it sorted - speak politely to the council, doesn't sound like you're doing anything wrong (although the mtb bit on your website does encourage cyclists 😛 ), anything you might be doing wrong I guess you're unaware of so if the council tell you to fix something you can 🙂
hang on ,if you have a garage tools a jet wash and axle stands it doesn't mean you run a car workshop does it? tell her to pi55 off
We also have a meat slicer, a rocket launching kit and a English bentside spinnet....I'll wait for the rush of bookings.....
Lol.. ironic that YOUR username is trout 🙂
Your neighbour doesn't know what she's talking about. I feel sad that you've come back from a well earned holiday and had to put up with all this nonsense.
We live in a cul de sac, where we regularly have friends round to mtb. The use of our garage tools are shared for those last minute fettling needs. Out comes the maps and off we all go. On our return, tea and cake is consumed, the bike hose is used and we all hang around for a while, so could we too be accused of running a trail centre?
As others have said, she would find something else to complain about if it wasn't the mtbing.
Good luck and I'll see you soon NDT.
hang on ,if you have a garage tools a jet wash and axle stands it doesn't mean you run a car workshop does it? tell her to pi55 off
Owning them is one thing. Advertising the service that you use them for is something quite different. Your neighbour sounds a nightmare and well out of order, but IMHO you are going to be in a more difficult position than necessary if you promote the MTB element of the business on the same website as the B&B.
If I was in your position, I'd change the wording to explicitly mention that you run the MTB courses from a different, but nearby location.
How about re-phrasing stating that guests can 'borrow' your tools etc... meaning they weren't paying for the privaledge (definition of a service??)
Sounds like an old boot. Next thing you know she will be 'improving' your local trails with logs and fishing line.
What's the basis of people saying there is a problem with running a business from home? Lots of people have home offices, a lot of small businesses (web design, curtain making, eBay based sales) are run from a residential property.
My understanding is that so long as you've not made alterations that require planning permission, you've told your mortgage company, and sorted out insurance you're pretty much OK. So long as you're not using parts of the building exclusively for business - eg your office also gets used as a spare bedroom or a second TV room - business rates/CGT position doesn't change.
Running a B&B, which you've permission to do, you need to provide secure bike storage and parking. Making a workshop available to guests is no different to letting them use the TV room as far as I can see.
The only issues I can see are around noise and disturbance to neighbours and you have to be making quite a bit, and usually at unsociable hours, before anyone has any valid grounds to complain (and even then it's a slow difficult process and they'd need to provide a lot of evidence).
Even if you *were* putting up 3 pairs of mtb'ers and their bikes every night, repairing their bikes in your back garden in the early evening, and setting off with them in a van you owned to go to the trails each morning at 8am I'm not sure she would have any valid grounds to complain.
What's the basis of people saying there is a problem with running a business from home?
Because in simple terms whilst there is nothing wrong with a home office, if you are running something from your house that becomes big, noisy or popular enough then it can be seen as a change of use from a 'dwelling house' to a business use and that requires planning permission.
Hence council will look into it seriously if miserable next door neighbour complains that you are running a mountain bike business.
One of the tests of whether its become too big etc. is whether it harms residential amenity of your next door neighbours. So unfortunately you can't tell her to p!33 off or own her with bombers as that only harms your case.
However, having said all that from the way the OP described his business set up at the moment it doesn't sound like he's in running enough of a business form his home for the planners to be interested yet.
write back asking for clarification on what a "mountain bike centre" actually means
Sadly I don't think the neighbor is going to give up so I reckon you need to make sure you're water tight
Oh and its your business/lively hood, it is very polite you're turning people away to placate your neighbour... mybe time to be a bit less polite...
oh and my wife would like a skills course.. whens the next beginners one!!!
I've sent off all the paperwork to the council now including a letter describing the business in detail so they will get an idea of what it is about and how it is run. Will see how it goes. I might re-word the website to make it more clear that we aren't a mountain bike centre but really welcomes mountain bikers.
MartynS- follow the link on my webpage under mountain biking and it will take you to Mountain bike skills courses website. I've only got one space left on Saturday's beginners course so if she prefers a smaller group (less than 6) then I would advice choosing any of the other dates available.
we regularly have friends round to mtb. The use of our garage tools are shared for those last minute fettling needs. Out comes the maps and off we all go. On our return, tea and cake is consumed, the bike hose is used and we all hang around for a while, so could we too be accused of running a trail centre?
Do you make them pay?