[Closed] motorbikerists - advice and tips please

Boots. Para boots or the like. Gloves look at the Heine Gerike stuff - they do some lobster claw ones that are good. I have never found a waterproof pair of gloves apart from some Rukka overgloves. liner gloves help immensely as well. I did not get on with heated grips - didn't make much difference.

Enjoy

Well if its just for commuting get some every day gloves and some muffs.

You could take the muffs off, or be lazy and leave them on.

Thick winter gloves will reduce the feel you get.

I ride with summerish gloves most of the time. Only on frosty mornings do I think about needing thicker ones.

Muffs are cheap, dont need wiring up and can be moved to a new bike. Heated grips are expensive for good ones and cant be moved to a new bike.

Heated gloves are an alternative, but with a small bike you may kill the battery. Muffs it is.

I hate thick winter gloves feels like riding with oven gloves on, and I already have issues reaching the clutch lever. Saving up for winter heated grips, already have the battery charger in the house. Its a safety issue !

Careful attention to chain and tire maintenance was the tip I got from pretty much everybody I know who has a motorbike.

I hate thick winter gloves feels like riding with oven gloves on

I already have issues reaching the clutch lever.

Muffs, heated grips, decent clothing and boots. Hein Gericke's calling you!

Heated grips don't do much for keeping the backs of your hands, and your fingers warm. Far better to buy some really decent winter gloves IMO.

what are the other essentials I will need to make commuting all year round (within reason) a doable prospect?

An INSANE amount of determination! Something sadly not available from any shops I've found yet (if you do find it on sale, let me know)... Cos in the summer you've only got the crap car, lorry, bus drivers and any pedestrians not paying attention trying to kill you. In the winter, you've got Mother Nature trying her best to finish you off too!

Don't get me wrong, I love motorbikes, but I've just never had the determination to ride one through the winter. Riding Mountain Bikes in the mud and wet can at least still be fun, but riding a motorbike through winter I found to just be a case of trying to desperately get from A to B in one piece, with little or no enjoyment involved...

Goretex boots. They keep your toes warm and waterproof. I eventually bought some after years of drying out wet soaks every rainy morning, on the back of my PC 🙂
Heated gloves. I've tried lots of gloves and expensive Goretex ones at that, none have kept my hands warm enough apart from Heated gloves (although I'm not sure on their reliability - had a few fail). Heated grips keep your palms and inside of fingers warm, but not the outside.

Also get yourself a snood type scarf, fog city visor insert and a visor wipe.

I need to find a better bike shop, I asked them to adjust the lever at the last service and they claim they did but it's no better.

In Scotland you need full winter gear in spring and autumn.

I dont see the problem with riding int he winter, in fact I rather enjoy it - if theres snow, its a challenge and I like adventure+challenges!
A lot depends on the bike you are on. I used to be on my GSXR all year, but now have a trailie bike for commuting, which dont care about and is fun riding in the rain/snow.

Back protector. Never ride without one.

Cheap waterproof boots - deriboots motorcycle boot. Ok its a welly for motorbikes but who cares - damn good boots -0 I have done many thousands of miles in mine
http://www.shoeandboot.co.uk/derriboots-mcb-motorcycle-boot-size-6s.html

Fog city or similar visor insert. Stops misting up

in the rain

The best quality helmet you can afford, its an essential safety item but also cheap lids mist up like hell. A breath deflector is a must. Respro do one- it'll be the best £12 you spent (i think they still cost £12).
Also, if youre warm and waterproof the weather wont be a problem- heated inner gloves and vest are a good investment and best of all heated socks!
Just dont flick the on switch till the engines warmed up or you'll kill your battery.

For gloves, try Spada's WP Force, they're fab- very warm, almost waterproof (practically nothing that says it's waterproof actually is) but also they just wear like normal gloves. Warmer than the hein gericke ninja turtle gloves and more durable.

Heated grips are hard to top, though it's not really cheap and sometimes they're just enough to tip the charging system over the edge on some bikes, especially in winter. Depending on the bike a bit of headlight fettling might be worthwhile as well, 125's headlights by and large are rubbish.

Thanks for all of the suggestions. I ended up buying a decent helmet (Shoei Qwest with a Pinlock) which seems impervious to mist - even under a kettle.

As usual it's the extremities - boots and gloves it seems.

What about a higher windscreen? There are aftermarket ones for about £45 but I'm not sure if its worth it.

A small windscreen makes a heck of a difference. Doesn't even look too naff on a commuter either.

Wind proof kit for the extremities makes a big difference. Hand guards or mitts do keep the worst of the wind chill off.

MCN did a feature a few years back and compared various impairments to motorcycling - drink drugs cold and tired and they are all as bad as each other in terms of control and safety.

If your bike has the power heated gloves socks boots vest etc can make winter bearable.

I've not biked in the winter for a few years now as its warmer, safer and healthier on the push bike. But when I worked further away I did my time and I've ridden across the country in mid-winter through snow and ice and almost got hypothermia in the process and I don't miss it.

If you are enjoying the fuel economy of your 125 be very careful about buying a bigger bike as few modern bikes get decent mpg nowadays. I think BMW are about the best with their parallel twins and anti-knock sensors leaning things right off.

Use the lobster heine gericke gloves mentioned above, very good bit of kit and not overly thick. For boots I've had Sidi black rain evo for years, very good and very tough, also had a pair of whatever boots they issue to the royal Marines which were surprisingly good.
I also found a silk balaclava
( http://www.ghostbikes.com/products/GhostBikes.com-Brands-Schuberth/1084-bike-it-motorcycle-silk-under-helmet-balaclava.html)

worn under the crash helmet to be very good at keeping the cold out.
Used heated grips on various work bikes and quite liked them - but will a PCX have enough oomph to power them or heated gloves?
As with a lot of winter activities don't neglect to keep your core warm - good thermals, a buff and decent socks all help in winter. Also I never ride without earplugs, even on small scooters

Gonna have to be the first to say it aren't I.....

Donor Card

Nothing to do with kit, but someone telling me about countersteering made a big difference to my riding when I first started.

Basically you turn the bars left to go right, and right to go left.

If you want warm hands, heated grips and some hand guards and or muffs to stop the wind blast.

Good tyres, worn ones (squared off)will make any bike feel like a pig with out you even realising.

Get some off road experience so you at least know what limited grip feels like and you can have some practice crashing and thus avoiding.

Commit, don't panic break, look where you want to go and not at what you want to avoid.

Just picked up a pair of HG Lobster gloves - my they're warm! May even get some use on the MTB in winter.

Also just got a flouro vest.

Boots and an extended screen are next on the list.

Boots. I tried a few 'waterproof' ones around the £100 mark. All kack. So I lobbed £220 at some Daytona Roadstar GTXs. They have never, ever leaked a tiny drop in 10s of 1000s of miles, they are comfy enough to walk in all day, and being real leather (Not that plastic leather) they don't get sweaty even when it's hot. Warm, yes, not sweaty though. IIRC I've had them about 6 years or so now. Probably the best value piece of kit I've ever bought. Oh, and I had a 30mph crash in them and they were virtually unmarked too

Those Hein Gerike lobster gloves are very poor though IMO. The first set I had leaked, so I got them replaced, and so did that second set. That said I've never had a truly waterproof glove. The best way is handlebar muffs with heated grips over some decent 'waterproof' gloved IMO.

Get some protective gear which will actually protect you, like this stuff

[img] [/img]

I remember an article in MCN years ago about non-biking biking gear, including marigold gloves and foundry boots.

It's worth thinking outside the box: sometimes you'll find things that are made to do the same job well in an industrial setting, at a fraction of the cost of the branded mo'cycle stuff. Albeit less prettily.

I wish I could remember more of the stuff in the article...

marigold gloves and foundry boots

Other tips are welcome!

You do know you can ignore the highway code?? Use advanced stop lines etc 😆

Aahh just re-read your post you passed the CBT not the test, maybe wait a bit before using the code for bog roll 😆

On a serious note - enjoy yourself

Just to share some more motorcycle good news...

Insurance renewed today. Blackbird, fully comp = 200 of your English pounds guvnor. It does pay to get older and wrinklier (said the scrotum)... 🙂

<edit> Oops on topic.. Shope around for insuracne and call everyone (who sells it). You may get some recognition if you're a car driver of some experience and be flexible on the annual mileage and excess values. I shop around every year and mine has gone from nearly £400 to £200 in about 4 years.

Odd. Motorcycles used to be relatively expensive to insure compared to cars. Now it's the other way around. In a big way.

Scottish all season scooter, Heated Grips, Handlebar Muffs, Denali High beam LED. I scrapped my suit internal liners and use ordinary cycling waterproofs underneath if required. A pair of sealskins socks in extreme conditions. I should think a Honda PCX will have plenty power spare for heated grips.

The only weather that put me off the road was the deep snow. I find the bike is warmer than my van and doesn't need its window scraped in the morning.

[img] [/img]

good luck! i hope you dont regret it like i did.(if you read my post on you mian one about doing your cbt)

i would advise not getting big thick winter gloves but thinner waterproof ones and get heated grips and handlebar wind deflector thingies!

good luck again and watch out for wet manhole covers!

That reminds me... you can get thin waterproof lobster style over-gloves. Very good...

Try and clean your new Shoei with a visor wipe as often as possible before lifting the visor to stop the grime from scuffing the top of the pinlock.I have a wee plastic sleeve that i have an old sock stuffed into with some water and mucoff soaked into it for quick wiping.Theres not many insects yet but its just around the corner.Thats the beauty up until now.. the bike and visor have been fly free! The wet sock slipped down behind the bikes screen can be used really quick without removing my gloves so you dont waste too much time when it gets bad out there.

Magazines always tell you to buy proper boots.If you buy other types of boots with laces,expect the possibility of laces wearing through in a matter of milliseconds.. then the boot falls off.Brill.The price of some of the oxford boots in the sales right now are very good value.The bone dry ones can be had for £80.Some magazine said they werent too waterproof but it wouldnt put me off a boot if they were that price.I have been doing upto 7 hour rides through the past few winters (leaving the house when its 4c)with non waterproof boots.As long as the socks arent too thick,the feet stay warm enough.They just seem to stay warm enough for me with only a merino sock inside them.
I have oxford heated sport grips.Like others have said,they backs of the hands can get cold.The ultimate would be heated grips with good winter gloves with a bit of bulk inside of them and a waterproof shell.I ride with alpine stars gp plus gloves and if i cant hack it, i put trek ripstop lobster shell goves over them.This takes the chill completely off my fingers.All for around £15 quid.

forget lots of buffs around the neck or big necked fleeces.They cause bulk and wind will still blast through them.If its a sports bike you ride,your head is restricted from tilting backwards into a natural position the more you put on around the neck too.It gets sore after a few hours.The answer is to buy a windproof neck sock like the ones oxford make.The material does the job and even half a buff underneath it can stop minor drafts but still allowing heaps of movement for yer life savers!
If you are normally large sizing in jackets and trousers,expect to buy a size up to fit in extra clothing.The bulk at the sleeves with gloves on could mean that you cant zip up the sleeves easily.The trousers i have are big enough to be comfortable with merino long johns too.

In torrential downpours,the pinlock can let in water.This happened on my shoei not long after getting it.I stuck a piece of electrical tape along the back of the helmet to have ready just to stick on the top of the visor.when this happens,you cant really ride so hopefully your helmet wont do this.Its been so handy to have as the rain and steam can be a big prob.

Booked my CBT today for next Friday. Wahey! 🙂

Got my module 1 (DAS course) next week. Need to master the u-turn and figure of 8. (If the bike is moving at walking pace, will it never tip over even if turned at full lock? Just wondering as the bike always feels like it is going to fall over when I try to do a sharp u-turn so I abort instead of continuing.)

timothius - sounds like you need some tuition to nail the u turn, but when doing the slow speed stuff don't touch the front brake, get used to using the back brake when turning and use clutch not throttle to control speed.
Motorcycling is great, it's worth all the effort!

[i] I did not get on with heated grips - didn't make much difference[/i]

Obviously crap ones...

Heated grips are brill, plus decent gloves (I have 3 different pairs depending on the weather - full winter Held's, mid-season waterproof Rukka and summer Hein Gericke), good boots (another vote for goretex Daytona's) and I wear leathers all year just varying underclothes and over waterproofs.

Good gear isn't cheap, but you can buy decent gear for not a lot (try Hein Gericke).

One tip, in rain never ever lift your visor - if it mists use either Bob Heath spray or install a Fog City insert.

[i] Need to master the u-turn [/i]

Luckily the test was a bit easier in my day (1982), when all the guy did was stand on a street corner while you rode around a 'loop' in town.

timothius - Member

Got my module 1 (DAS course) next week. Need to master the u-turn and figure of 8. (If the bike is moving at walking pace, will it never tip over even if turned at full lock?

This is one for your instructor- yes, it can tip over at full lock, if you screw up. Try not to screw up! Repetition is the key really and avoid the obvious mistakes (don't front brake, don't pull the clutch right in)

Front brake on, foot down, put weight onto your foot, lots of revs and dump the clutch. Lean bike slightly until it's pointing the opposite direction. Shift weight back to the bike and pull away gracefully. In a cloud of smoke.

Good advise all. Did my first wet ride last night and the pinlock let water in. Have adjusted it now so hopefully that won't happen again...

My kit was totally waterproof too. RST jacket and trousers, HG lobster gloves and some goretex safety boots. I shall definitely be investing in some proper longer boots though. Also ordered a Givi tunnel bag for more storage - I needed a new bag anyway.

All in all I'm enjoying it. And so far this weekend less than half a tank of fuel has done 80 miles. The full tank cost £10!

b r - Member

I did not get on with heated grips - didn't make much difference

Obviously crap ones...

BMW OE ones - some of the very best Just warmed a bit of the inside of my hand I ride covering the levers and the backs of your hands still get cold anyway.

TJ, if you're still getting cold hands you can't beat a pair of handguards.

I've not tried the BMW ones (never yet thought myself old enough for a Beemer 🙂

I had them on my Tiger and found that I barely needed the heated grips on more than low, whereas on my Sprint GT I run the grips on full.

earplugs, earplugs, earplugs.

especially on a daily commute.

Pardon?

Br - I couldn't bring myself to put handelbars muffs on it - and I rarely commuted on it anyway.

Cannae beat a BMW for a 4000 mile thrash around europe Or year round riding in Scotland

Oh - yes - earplugs is a good call - certainly if you do much outside of urban areas

timothius - Member
Got my module 1 (DAS course) next week. Need to master the u-turn and figure of 8.

Balancing the bike using the rear brake and gripping the tank tightly between my knees always worked for me.

really - earplugs?

I guess it is a constant sound, but even at 50mph the scoot doesn't seem loud and the helmet does a good job at cutting it out.

I guess it is a constant sound, but even at 50mph the scoot doesn't seem loud and the helmet does a good job at cutting it out

BMW OE ones - some of the very best Just warmed a bit of the inside of my hand I ride covering the levers and the backs of your hands still get cold anyway.

For me in winter they're the difference between no feeling and enough feeling to work the levers. They work a lot better with summer gloves, which have thinner palms. At this time of year they're great.

Earplugs are a must - it's not the noise of the bike, it's windnoise through your lid. If I envisage a ride getting above 40mph, then I put my plugs in - and as a Blackbird rider, that kind of means all rides 🙂

Daytona boots have been mentioned, I would +1 these if your budget will stretch that far (there is a German supplier on e-bay who will ship to the UK - he's very competitive). If not, then the [url= http://www.sportsbikeshop.co.uk/motorcycle_parts/content_prod/30361?r=Froogle ]TCX goretex[/url] ones get rave reviews.

eraplug stuff;

The Dutch Government’s Occupational Health & Safety Service commissioned a study on the effects of wind noise and discovered some disturbing results. At 50mph the sound level under a helmet was 90decibels (dB). Speed has a significant effect on sound levels and for each 12mph increase in speed, the intensity of the sound is doubled. According to the report, at 60mph, a rider is experiencing the same level of noise as a circular saw operator, the only difference being that the circular saw jockey would have to wear, by law, ear defenders.
Using Noise Regulations figures laid down for the workplace, the following figures would apply to safe exposure times while riding a motorcycle:

Speed (Mph) Noise Level (dB) Safe Riding Time
50 92 2 Hours
62 94 1 Hour
74 97 30 Minutes
86 100 15 Minutes
98 103 7.5 Minutes
110 106 3.75 Minutes

(from http://www.ultimateear.com/reviews.htm)

&

Research from the early 1990’s has shown that once a rider reaches and passes 40mph, the pattern of airflow around the rider, and particularly the rider’s helmet, leads to vibration in this area and the generation of ‘wind noise’. Even if you do not ride a motorcycle, you will have come across a similar sound if you have ever put down a car window when travelling at speed.
At speeds of around 40mph, the noise level at the rider’s ear is of the order of 85-90dB(A); a potentially damaging amount. The level increases to about 110dB(A) at around 100mph, a level that is ‘safe’ for only about 3 minutes! At typical motorway speeds the sound level is around 100dB(A) and safe for about 30 minutes. Unfortunately, it is difficult to do anything with motorcycle design to improve this and although there are some modifications that can be made to crash helmets to improve their sound protection qualities, the manufacturers appear to have little interest and so have taken this no further. This therefore leaves the onus for ear protection on the individual rider. At this point in time the best advice and only realistic option is the use of earplugs. At the end of the day, it doesn’t really matter which type of earplugs one uses as long as they fit well, are comfortable and therefore GET USED. People often worry that using earplugs for this purpose will stop them hearing important warning signals such as sirens, horns and other traffic. Further research has shown that above about 45mph, when the wind-noise level exceeds 90dB(A), warning signal detection is in fact better with earplugs in place! So the best advice is: If you ride a motorcycle – use earplugs – not for short urban journeys where speeds are likely to remain below 50mph – but for all longer journeys, especially motorway riding, where speeds in excess of 50mph are common.

(from The British Tinnitus Association)

Fairly clear message I'm overly enthusiastic on the use of ear plugs - it was taught to me very early on in my riding and my father is deaf from years of exposure to loud noises on building sites and it's no fun so I use them on nearly all journeys by motorbike (as nearly all my bikes can top 40mph :-))

Certainly something to consider, however most of my journeys only see above 50mph for maybe 10 minutes at a time - it is only a 125cc scooter after all!

Also, the Shoei Qwest helmet I have claims to be 30% quieter than their previous ones (although probably measured at 200 mph knowing marketing).

As I say, it certainly doesn't feel very noisy in there, but I know how these things can be deceiving. I'll get some plugs from work for free anyway.

Shoei are very good for noise. Arai are awful. Unfortunately my head seems to be Arai shaped these days.

freddyg - Member

Daytona boots have been mentioned, I would +1 these if your budget will stretch that far (there is a German supplier on e-bay who will ship to the UK - he's very competitive). If not, then the TCX goretex ones get rave reviews.

Ditto for the Daytonas. The German co also does 'bargain' Rukka kit if you're feeling flush. I bought a set a couple of years ago and it was ~half UK price.

MSG Bikegear have some TCX Matrix 2 Goretex boots for £99 and I can get 15% off that price - is this a bargain or will they be carp?

They retail at £160 - so for £85 tis a bargain.

Of course I would have to take a punt on the sizing though.

I haven't heard of the MAtrix 2's before, but a quick google revealed favourable reviews. These chaps reviews are generally very good and seem to be objective: [url= http://www.webbikeworld.com/r2/motorcycle-boots/oxtar/matrix/ ]Web bike world[/url] Don't worry about the Oxtar references. They were re-branded as TCX a couple of years ago.

Timothious: U-turns and Fig-8's are simple, you just need to relax and have faith in the bike. The slow control method is key to both manouvres.

Clutch set at biting point, you'll be slipping it the whole way on both manouvres. Raise the revs to a nice lively engine and keep 'em there; a rough guide is around 1500-2k on the rev counter - but listen to the bike. Apply gentle and constant pressure to the rear brake; this slows the bike and keeps it stable. If you need to slow down, gently increase pressure on the rear brake ( you may need to slightly increase the revs )to speed up, release it slightly.

bring the bike to a stop by pulling the clutch in and rolling off the throttle - the rear brake takes over and stops the bike with no diving. Stay away from the front brake!

thats the basic slow control technique. With the fig8 you're just adding turning the bike to the mix; relax your arms and keep youre head up, look in the direction you want to go, not where you're pointing. The space allowed for a mod1 fig8 is quite large and you need to do 2 cleanly. Try adding a little countersteer - if turning to the right, lean the bike and shift your bum cheek to the left of the saddle. Relax and drive the bike around, keep your head turning to look through the cones.

on the u-turn, dont rush the pull away; nice rear observation, get the bike pulling forward in a straight line and into the slow control technique - a couple of bike lengths to get your balance. Turn your head and focus on a point opposite where you want the bike to go, trun the bars and drive the bike around. Keep your head turning, as you drawn level with the opposite curb, throttle off, clutch in. If you take more than a couple of lengths to pull away, you will be required to do a final lifesaver before commiting to the turn.

practice makes perfect, good luck!

TCX make good boots - i replaced my Sidi Vertabrea boots with a set of TCX Competizione RS. Slid down the road in the Picos de Europa last year, fell straight onto my right side and slid backwards on a gravel patch - boot was under the bike ( fully loaded with 2 weeks gear and the missus ) Couple of minor scratches to the boot, no bruising or damage - i rate them better than my Sidi's
My missus wears SPIDI XPD VR5 and these are also a very good boot - discontinued, but can be found new on flea bay.

Forcefield / Halvarson do top rated back protectors - not cheap, but back bones aren't easy to repair.

monkeyp,i found that i would make matters worse in the rain if i wiped the visor with the glove.I noticed this flexed the visor and opened up gaps.. letting the water blow right in.You can get sprays that help the water bead really well.They should keep your hands away from the visor for quite a while before it needs to be re applied.

I just filled the tank up with fuel - cost me a whole £6.82 for 5.02l (1.1gal) which has managed 132.5 miles.

That's 120mpg without really trying on a new bike!

martinxyz - I've ridden in the rain twice now - once lashing it down and the other quite light and to be honest I haven't had an issue. Not sure if it's the helmet or just hasn't been the 'right' kind of rain but I can just focus through the beads of water.

if it's raining hard and your going at reasonable speed turn your head and the wind should disperse water from the visor. Visor's need to be kept clean and scratch free - this realy show's up when riding at night in the rain 🙁

Get some life insurance because you will eventually die, or a car to decrease the chances.

Re: U-turn and figure-8:

practice makes perfect, good luck!

Absolutely. If you don't feel confident, tell your instructor you want to keep practising. You're paying them to teach you enough to get you through your test. Make sure they do.

flow - as opposed to you, who will never die?

No one, but the chances of dying on a motorbike are rather high. I personally know at least 10 people who have crashed (more like been crashed into) and either died or have been seriously injured, one has no legs!

How many cyclists have you known who have crashed and been injured badly?

I personally know of far more cyclists who have been badly injured (myself included) than motorcyclists, but I'm not going to advise you to sell your bikes and take up a different form of transport.

I don't wish to get into this argument as the risks are quite clear, and are present with varying degrees however you travel.

flow - a bad lot of crashers you know then. I rode a motocycle for decades and so do / did a bunch of my pals. No serious injuries amongst them

No such thing as dangerous forms of transport, just dangerous riders/drivers. I've been riding for 10 years, instructing for 3 and never had an incident; attitude and training are the key.

Pretty much all the accidents the people I know have had have been the fault of someone else. Attitude and training won't help one bit.

Dude with no legs got pulled out on. Another had his girlfriend on the back, got pulled out, girlfriend broke her neck and died. A few with broken legs, pelvis, arms, wrists due to being pulled out on etc

You are right, riding a bicycle on the road is almost as dangerous, not going as quick though.

Some cockend pulled out in front of me a few years ago on my motorbike, he saw me coming from a good 250 metres, pulled out when I was so close I didn't have time to brake. I wasn't to badly injured though, dented the petrol tank with my boll*cks, some internal bleeding, burst testical and 5k compensation.

No such thing as dangerous forms of transport

Couldn't get much more ignorant than that, especially from an instructor. Motorbikes are pretty much the most dangerous form, next I would say is cycling on the road.

What I will say though, IAM course is well worth doing.

I know a couple of people who are carrying permanent and unpleasant injuries from crashing bicycles. Ironically I know more people who ride/race motorbikes and none of them are dead or permanently injured.

That's not to say motorcycles are safe. Fun stuff isn't.

So in your first sentence you totaly disregard attitude and training and in your last you advocate it? make yer mind up lad! :oP

No amount of either is going to save you from the myopic old biddy who cant see over her steering wheel but in alot of situations it'll help...

Flow - just pish - attitude and training are critical - most smidsy accidents are avoidable by a skilled rider.

Vehicles do not kill - people do

Couldn't get much more ignorant than that, especially from an instructor.

how is that ignorant? its more like an opinion. More vulnerable, yes, more dangerous? no. A sensibly ridden bike is no more a hazard than a sensibly driven car or push bike or whatever.

how is that ignorant? its more like an opinion. More vulnerable, yes, more dangerous? no. A sensibly ridden bike is no more a hazard than a sensibly driven car or push bike or whatever.

The risk of accident is probably similar. The consequence are very different. Risk x Consequence = Danger.

Bikes are more dangerous than cars.

That's not to say they are unacceptably dangerous though.

I can see your point, but I dont see the bike or riding it as any more dangerous; the same risks are there regardless of vehicle type. Naturally the consequences for it going wrong are higher, but I dont see that as making it " more " dangerous than driving a bus. Different outlooks I think.

Anyway, now i've had my first argument on STW, do i get a badge or somthing?

Way harder to be seen on a motorbike for a start, buses tend to be quite big.

Motorcycles and push-bikes are quite similar, it doesn't matter whether its us of the other driver/vehicle that makes the mistake - we pay for it...

[i]No one, but the chances of dying on a motorbike are rather high. I personally know at least 10 people who have crashed (more like been crashed into) and either died or have been seriously injured, one has no legs! [/i]

Funny how its always non-bikers who know the bikers who've been killed etc... But then I've only been riding 30 years, so what would I know?

And for the visor, try Bob Heath anti-fog spray for the inside, and Nikwax Visor Proof for the outside.

Anyway, now i've had my first argument on STW, do i get a badge or somthing?

Funny how its always non-bikers who know the bikers who've been killed etc... But then [b]I've only been riding 30 years, so what would I know?[/b]

Obviously not enough, I'm not a "non rider", read the whole post 🙄