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This is why i am quite content with calling Johnson stupid ‘cos while he has book learning and cunning he is an utter dunce scoring sub zero on most measures.
And yet he is a positive ****ing genius compared to his two current successors! 🤦🏻
Its a very rare person who gets all of them Leonardo da Vinci
Measured by their impact on humanity, Da Vinci would have to be the most intelligent person to have walked the earth, ever I would argue... Of course this is far easier to judge centuries after someone existed than it is in the here and now.
I always thought MENSA entry was a minimum 150 IQ…? 🤷🏻♂️ Either way, I’m 144 here and know many, many people smarter than myself… I’m “the thick one” from my family after all! 😂
I don't think that MENSA entry is based on IQ, although there is a test.
Apparently 0.13% of the population has an IQ above 145.
An opinion poll a few years back found that 65% of Americans thought they were above average intelligence, which I think is interesting. I wonder what a poll of STWers would reveal?
Personally I think the human brain has far too many complex functions to preform to make a sweeping generalisation of one individual's intelligence, it's impossible to measure in a meaningful way imo. Is creating a beautiful work of art a measure of someone's intelligence?
I wouldn't dismiss it as totally unimportant but I think that I attach far less importance to intelligence than many if not most people. It simply provides me with so little information about a person compared to other stuff.
For example knowing someone's IQ provides me no information concerning what they are capable of or anything about their character.
Da vinci could do theory, practical, synthesis and artistic ( which I missed in my list above) I don't know if he could dance tho ( kinaesthetic)
Is creating a beautiful work of art a measure of someone’s intelligence?
IIRC generally yes given as artistic intelligence is usually seen as one type of intelligence.
I wonder what what a poll of STWers would reveal?
I have never taken any IQ test but the result is probably embarrassing and they might want to investigate if my skull is empty.
Oh ya ... friend who never attended a lecture told me his MENSA was 145. He was quiet proud of his IQ test achievement and I congratulated him then proceed to search for pub nearby.
I don’t know if he could dance tho
How the **** is dancing a measure of intelligence?
Are you suggesting that people with no rhythm are less intelligent?
met a few nobel prize winners. My PhD supervisor is someone I would consider very intelligent.
I'm of average intelligence.
kinaesthetic intelligence. its generally accepted as a form of intelligence. If you are any good as a carpenter you will have high kinaesthetic intelligence being able to cut accurate lines in wood. I can't. same as a dancer or a rock climber of a footballer. Kinaesthetic intelligence
its a generally accepted form of intelligence
Intelligence is about far more than book learning and IQ test
As above - psychologists debate exactly how to define this and come up with differnt numbers of types but almost all would agree there are multiple types. this is the harvard definitions 8 types
I think Ernie is rattled by the dance comment. He's fell off his perch on the fence.
"allmost all psychologists" actually may be pushing it for all of these definitions but its certainly accepted that no one measure can measure intelligence
At school in the 70s I was tested for two different aspects. IQ test( mathmatical / analytical) and VRQ ( verbal reasoning quotient)
Few folk would doubt emotional intelligence is real
Interesting 8 types of definitions.
I think I am screwed in this life. Oh well, I guess I have to do better in my next reincarnation.
Kinaesthetic intelligence
it's a generally accepted form of intelligence
It's bad news for white people then.
I think Ernie is rattled by the dance
Well yeah although I did Argentine Tango lessons. And I am relieved to hear TJ mention 'artistic intelligence'....O level art is one of two O levels that I managed to get. It's good to know that you are not entirely thick.
Ernie - from what I have seen over the years on here you would score highly ion some measures especially emotional intelligence. I've read the posts you make when folk are in distress.
Where you any good at dancing the tango?
My niece would, I think, do well.
First in bio-chemistry; reasearch in cystic fibrosis at John Radcliffe in Oxford; currently PhD student at Cambridge.
Socially adept, personable, funny.
Where you any good at dancing the tango?
No not very good. I don't think Tango is difficult other than it only looks good when danced with passion. TBH Tango can move me to tears.
I can honestly say that I once danced the Tango on New Year's Eve in Argentina on a dance floor watched by an embarrassingly large crowd. I was rubbish. I used to be much better at lindy hop/jive type stuff.
Tango can move me to tears.
It's probably the bubbles getting up your nose.
It’s probably the bubbles getting up your nose.
👏🏼
My father. He moved from New Zealand to Oxford on a Rhodes scholarship, stayed there and ended up as the principal of a college. I knew he was clever, he was a linguist and learnt new languages for fun, he taught himself Welsh as a hobby because we holidayed in Snowdonia every Easter, he said it was the hardest language to learn that used the Roman alphabet. He also spoke French, Spanish, Portuguese, Greek, Russian and Arabic. The shame is that I never really knew just how clever he was until after he died, at his memorial service many of his old friends who were pretty serious academics themselves, told me that he was the most intelligent person they'd ever met.
He was also very emotionally intelligent, very sociable, and something of a polymath as well as a polyglot, in my first year at Cambridge he used to discuss maths and physics with me and showed an advanced knowledge of the subject.
My Mother decided when she married him and moved to Oxford, that she needed to acquire a skill to give her kudos in Oxford academic circles, so worked in a contemporary art gallery, ending up as Managing Director, pretty impressive for someone born into a very wealthy "country squire" family. She was expected to marry the Lord Right (not just a plain Mr .Right). She comprehensively rejected her wealthy background by marrying an impoverished colonial academic, which shows a real strength of character.
I was very lucky to have two wonderful kind parents, the down side being that I am clearly a combination of all the worst aspects of my parents while my sister is a brilliant linguist and really lovely as well.
Professor John Roswell, edited all the five Volumes of British Plant Communities must have taken 25 years. He is also a Reverend and an extremely approachable and kind hearted man, taught me a lot and it was him who first sparked my interest in hay meadows.
It’s quite rare that IQ and EQ go hand in hand for sure… Which makes it all the more impressive when they do!
Yes, unbeatable combo. Unless you can also do it in different languages.
Relatively low EQ with high IQ on the other hand is unbearable and the stuff of dictators while the reverse normally makes for very nice people.
Few folk would doubt emotional intelligence is real
Is it learnable / teachable though? And is it measurable? Ditto 'common sense'.
Neither can mathematical or linguistic intelligence
You can teach skills on top but you cannot teach intelligence imo
Really fascinating interview with the guy who made the Senna film and recent Bernie Ecclestone biopic. Gave the view that Bernie for all his faults was incredibly sharp and intelligent
Wasn’t someone I would have thought of!
Murray Gell Mann. He gave a lecture in the London that was pretty good many years ago
Neither can mathematical or linguistic intelligence
You can teach skills on top but you cannot teach intelligence imo
But how much of what's termed 'emotional intelligence' comes down to learning experiences and how much is genetic? If you took identical twins and subjected them to entirely different upbringings, would they have the same level of emotional intelligence? What about 'IQ'?
I know none of this is remotely straightforward, but you draw broad brushstrokes with more conventional intelligence - there's a difference between being 'intelligent' and 'academic' for example. Fwiw, in academia at least, what seemed to me to separate bright lecturers from extraordinary ones was the ability to explain really complex ideas simply. Or maybe that's just what makes for a good lecturer.
Anyway, huge, futile, rabbit-hole to go down.
Sergey Brin, understands and gets to the core of a problem about 20 times faster than anyone I've ever met, it's surreal.
Neither can mathematical or linguistic intelligence
You can teach skills on top but you cannot teach intelligence imo
ps: how do you (think) you know this? I genuinely have no idea and am happy to admit that.
Reading and education
An opinion poll a few years back found that 65% of Americans thought they were above average intelligence, which I think is interesting. I wonder what a poll of STWers would reveal?
I reckon i'd be in the top half ;o)
I think the most intelligent person I know is a professor of structural Engineering at a University in Delft.
I've worked with him a few times over the last 10-12 years - his subject knowledge is off the scale, however he's also interesting, empathetic and good company.
Reading and education
No, I meant how do you know that emotional intelligence cannot be taught or stem from environmental factors, which I think is what you said earlier.
When I was younger I used to rent a little upper floor flat in the house of a couple in their late 70s for about a year. She was lovely, he really didn't talk much, shuffled around the house in slippers with papers and books and was in the study most of the time. Gave him the peace and space he seemed to want and tried not to be annoying when I'd come back muddy from rides or creep out at 1-2am to drive me and a mate to N Wales when there was any snow + ice about.
He was into maths and cosmology and had been influential in his field. Name was Penrose, said to be one of the greatest living physicists. I only realised this a few years after I moved out. At the time I thought he was a retired professor maybe.
One regret in life is not realising who he was and that I didn't make more effort to get to know him a little.
Noel Edmonds.
RM.
You can teach skills on top but you cannot teach intelligence imo
The definition of Intelligence is the ability to acquire and apply knowledge or skill, so yes, it can be taught.
Ah
Ermmm. Im not smart enough to explain. You can teach someone social skills but is that the same?
You can learn to score highly on IQ tests. Does that mean you are getting more intelligent?
I did so many IQ tests in my teens my score went up 15 pts. IQ tests measure how good you are at doing IQ tests not intelligence
No amount of training could make me into something I do not have the inate ability in.
Nickc. Thats not teaching intelligence. Thats teaching how to apply it.
How would you teach me to be a genius?
Im degree level amart just about. Im not phd in hard science smart. Hiw would you teach me to be phd level smart
Ermmm. Im not smart enough to explain. You can teach someone social skills but is that the same?
I don't know, but I'm not sure you can equate developing emotional intelligence to improving at IQ tests through practice. It's interesting really, neuroplasticity means the brain can learn to do all sorts of weird stuff and often what we think we know, we don't. Or at least not with the degree of certainty we believe.
I suspect this thread says as much about what people perceive as being the most important aspect of 'intelligence' as it does about the actual 'intelligence' of the people being cited. I can't even begin to try ranking people I've met on that basis, lost of them impressively good at certain things, some impressively good at lots of them. Some just incredibly bright in a slightly odd way, which I think is probably what impresses me most.
Im degree level amart just about. Im not phd in hard science smart. Hiw would you teach me to be phd level smart
I'd argue that 'PhD level smart' is actually more about being 'academic' than 'intelligent' per se. It's the ability to sift through masses of information and take out the significant bits and trends to construct an argument or theory. I think you can probably develop that skill with practice. I'm not sure you can develop the ability to enjoy the process, but that's arguably a different thing.
On a wider level, one of the issues we have as a society is the way we value a very narrow definition of intelligence measured by our education system, which is actually about organising facts into arguments in a competitive environment. No valuation of emotional intelligence / common sense etc. Back to EQ then...
How would you teach me to be a genius?
It depends on whether you accept that some-one who has either innate ability or learned ability is a genius I suppose. Mozart probably had his musical ability from birth, he still had to learn the basis/advanced theories of music in order to make the most of that ability.
Mrs FD is fairly clever.
PHD, FRCS, Medical Degree, Degree, Masters (all at highest level of award), Top end of MENSA, can't decide whether she wants to get a professorship.
It is commented at her work that she comes across as 'normal' compared to a lot of her colleagues.
However I know for a fact that at times she lacks the most common of common sense, and sees the world in strange ways.
Having been in her circle of colleagues - some of them of very intelligent. Whether they are 'wise' is a different matter. In all walks of life you come across some very wise people who you can learn more from than any amount of intelligence.
Interesting that most of the above posts associate intelligence with formal qualifications and distinguished universities. Intelligence can be so much more
Intelligence is so much more. The school structure didn't suit me so I was never going to do well. IT was all about revision (boring) with a test at the end. I just took the tests based on what I remembered over the few years with no revision at all. Did okay but clearly could have done way better if I revised.
Left school feeling a bit of a failure until starting work and clearly having more intelligence (understanding stuff quickly, coming up with workable solutions to problems quickly, remembering a lot of stuff without writing it down etc,.) than most that I work with who did do degrees and further education.
A good point, I’ve met some technical genuises in my time, but have the social and life skills of gherkin.
That will be because they are most probably high functioning autistic people.
Kerley - completely. Once you get in to the work place you can quickly see those who the education system failed. Unfortunately though many industries continue to rely very heavily on a qualification rather than ability to do the job (I guess you have to start some where)
Yes, I was very lucky. Mediocre A level results and autistic so appalling at interviews but the job was a starter job in IT and the interview was heavily biased toward results of an IQ type test which I got 98% in!
I've met the "dotty professor type" A consultant dermatologist I worked with briefly was really well respected in his field (undersells it really, he was in many ways the "Go-To") - written something like 200 papers, was forever getting post doc mega bright students from very well known medical teaching schools to "sit at his feet" while he went about his work.
Couldn't read/use an excel spreadsheet, or on one occasion; work a self check-out at Tesco.
I work with Drs, scientists, academics and engineers on a variety of topics, and have met some seriously clever people, but I once had a conversation with Nick Clegg lasting around 15mins. Possibly one of the most articulate, intelligent and insightful people I've ever had a brief chat with. I know this will be controversial for many.
A young patent attourney (uk) I met with a few years ago - I sometimes have some odd ideas, and am used to having to lead people through them and explain very carefully. Not this guy - although he had no previous knowledge of the field we were discussing, he grasped every nuance of what I was trying to explain from pretty much the first sentence and asked incisive, pertinent questions from he off. Our conversation moved off onto other things and life in general and he was also very personable and pleasant to talk to.
I was impressed at the time, and I'm still impressed now.
I remember turning to my boss after the meeting and saying "Isn't it nice when you can deal with people without having to explain everything in words of one syllable"... He gave me a funny look.