[Closed] more tazering fun...

He punched him in the arm, which they're supposed to do instead of trying to force cuffs on people

One of the bystanders leaned down to say something to either the officer or the guy on the ground,having said his piece he straightens up and steps back out of the way.
The cop standing to the bystanders right ,at first,failed to notice him addressing his colleagues until he had stepped back into the crowd.Then,despite the fact that he has retreated back into the crowd and is standing further away from that officer than other bystanders next to him,the cop rushes forward and violently shoves the bystander further back.
A bit unnecessary 😕

the guy on the ground could have been very easily hancuffed had they been bothered to handcuff his hands in front of his body ,but standard practice is to handcuff at the back,this is a stress position and the reason its done is to keep the prisoner concentrating on his bindings,if he moves -it hurts.

This position of twisting the hands to opposites of each other then binding them behind the prisoners back is used in many other countries. and is classed by human rights as torture.
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Keep worrying about MP's expenses 😉

Clearly dyna-ti you haven't dealt with an 18 stone drunk man who is struggling and just GBH'd a colleague.

Cuffing is not a stress position and it is also not standard practice. Cuffing to the rear is preferable if you have someone that is struggling violently because they can't hit you with their hands behind their back and it also makes it easier to control them safely. No police officer in the UK is taught to cuff someone with their hands opposing each other at the rear. That's why it's called the back to back position ie the backs of the hands face each other because it puts the LEAST amount of stress on the wrist, shoulder.

When the officer is striking him he's actually trying to deaden the arm so he will release it and allow him to cuff it without the risk of breaking his arm. It's called a distraction strike.

I've not seen the lead-up to the footage. But I can see that the guy is still struggling and trying to fight even after being tazered, coupled with the fact he already hospitalised a police officer. That would tend to suggest he's probably put up quite a nasty fight already. He didn't even make a complaint after his release!

Perhaps next time they should sit him down with a nice cup of tea and ask him why he was so upset? Perhaps you should be looking at the footage in Iran if you want to see actual police brutality? Or maybe people should stop jumping on band wagons and talking about stuff they have very little understanding of.

Nice one Mr Nonsense.

I know a few coppers and hear tails of the crap that they have to put up with off violent drunken idiots.

This bloke had already flattened one of theirs and was clearly in the mood to hurt a few more. What were they expected to do?

[i]ok, so he was no granny but i'm not sure if he needed several punches to the head i order to subdue him. [/i]

Fortunately the Police knew he didn't so they didn't punch him in the head, get back behind your desk and let the professionals do their job.

I don't see anything wrong with that, he's still resisting all the way through that footage, what are they supposed to do? just let him go, or stand there for an hour waiting for him to calm down? Also that footage makes me think how exposed the police are, that crowd appeared within seconds, and by the end of it there were over a hundred people there, who could of easily kicked off, scary

Gosh, police brutality, unheard of in the UK. 🙄

Gosh, people automatically assuming the worst of the police without understanding all the facts, unheard of in the UK 🙄

FWIW, the tasering looked harsh to me but then I don't really know what happened before the video started or in fact how at risk the guys trying to arrest him were because the video isn't great and it's hard to see...

The shove on the guy in the crowd did look unwarranted mind but again without really having the full picture...

As above, what were they supposed to do, attempt to talk him into the hand-cuffs?

If this was Germany/Italy (where i have lived and seen such policing) there would have been batons to the face and worse, and they don't have to deal with the violent and drunken society we have in this country.....

that crowd appeared within seconds, and by the end of it there were over a hundred people there, who could of easily kicked off, scary

Oh come now - the officers had nothing to fear. People are so supportive of the Police in this country 😐

Aren't they?

Let the coppers get on with an already difficult job. The hostile public filming you can't be too pleasant. Their "helpful" comments on your every act also must be a tad irritating.

trailmonkey:

Gosh, police brutality, unheard of in the UK. 🙄

Wow. You just blew my mind!

spot on there Nonsense, well said.

A few points here:

Was there any need for the guy firing the taser to stamp on the guy that had been tasered?
The second tasering - the two unifromed guys had just been there a couple of seconds - had they really had any opportunity to restrain the guy as a quad?
View the video at full screen and some of you will find that you need an anatomy lesson - the arms are below the neck, not above.
Does it really make any difference who they hit?
If 4 guys of equal size to the tasered bloke cant restrain one single guy who is already on the ground then maybe their training and skills are crap.
The two non-uniformed guys lost it.
Finally - the guy is not fighting back, it looks to me like he is confused and trying simply to defend himself when he doesn't have a clue whats going on. Understandable when pissed and you have a couple of guys in plain clothes trying to kick the crap out of you.

I'm not too sure about this one really. I don't feel very comfortable about the Tazer generally, but this doesn't seem particularly excessive to me - unlike the one with the old lady.

Pushing that bystander in that way seems needlessly aggressive and more likely to incite problems than prevent them though.

It's also quite funny how some people say 'you don't know the context, you haven't seen the lead-up to what happened' etc, then they explain how their interpretation of it is right instead. It does seem the police can do no wrong according to some people.

Oh and the argument of 'you should see Iran/Italy/wherever if you want to see real police brutality' is nonsense - it's like saying hitting someone is fine because you didn't stab them.

"It does seem the police can do no wrong according to some people."

Neither can drunken louts who attack policemen it seems......

I am struggling to see why they had to punch him and taser him several times. If he was drunk it would probably be very easy to restrain him. Specially for efficient and trained police officers, who surely do know how to incapacitate someone with a little damaged as possible?

they don't have to deal with the violent and drunken society we have in this country.....

I just like the backing track in this one.

Can we have "Danger-High Voltage" on the next one please?

Neither can drunken louts who attack policemen it seems......

Except that I was saying the police were probably justified in this case.

What about slightly mardy old ladies?

Nonsense is clearly correct. apart from [i]perhaps[/i] the second tasaring that looks like the restraint wa all done in accordance with training and the punches are clearly onto the deltoid muscle to give a dead arm - in accordance with training. that is the best way to get him cuffed without damaging him unduly. No batons were used nor pepper spray

As for the push on the bystander - clearly that had been told to get back and had not

People seem to think that cops are not allowed to use force. They are - up to and including using pain to subdue someone. The force used must be reasonable and commensurate with the risk.

Smee would those 'plain clothes' officers you mention be the firearms officers who wear exactly the same uniform as everyone else apart from blue shirts instead of white? And would the hand that was being stood on be the same hand that was punching towards the other policeman's face moments before?

[i]If he was drunk it would probably be very easy to restrain him[/i]

That is the biggest pile of shite I've read for a long time. How many violent pissheads have you tried to control?

Sorry, but I find that rather disturbing.

an 18 stone drunk man who is struggling and just GBH'd a colleague.

I'd rather a judge and jury decide that. Or should we go back to pre PACE days?

the rights or wrongs of this are one thing, but whats with you coppers moaning about your job? You signed on the dotted line and have taken the money! If you don't like it get a job at Tesco's.
If some one treats me like a t**t or assults me at work (which has happened) i can't beat the cr@p out of them

[i]That is the biggest pile of shite I've read for a long time. How many violent pissheads have you tried to control? [/i]

Not a single one I bet but he did knock someone on their arse once.

Only firearms officers have Tazers at the moment I think

Taser come well below CS or a baton strike on the use of force continuum - i.e. what tactic you should use in what situation. The theory behind this is that the effects of CS are non-discriminatory and will affect the Police and any bystanders just as much as the person they're trying to restrain - usually more so because drunks tend to have the uncanny ability of fighting through it's effects.

A baton strike - mmmm, how would anyone here like to be hit by a 21" of metal bar? the effects of a baton strike can be catastrophic and very long lasting if you hit the wrong part of the body - e.g. head, balls, neck etc. A baton is a very crude piece of equipment that is best kept fastened away. It has a very good tactical value when you arrive at a public order incident, but usually only when people are sober enough to think "ooo, being hit by a piece of shiny metal could smart". when they're drunk, however, people don't think like this - they usually fancy their chances. Also, a drunk feels very little pain. Couple a few shandies with a massive dose of adrenalin, with someone who's up for it and you've got a big problem, which could result in you having the baton took off you by the wrong person.

Taser, however, will only ever affect the person to whom it is attached. the effects last for 5 seconds, and if this doesn't work, you do it again. if this doesn't work, you do it again, and on it goes until you gain compliance. Because this is what Taser is - it is a method of gaining compliance. Post Taser deaths have been reported around the world, but these figures have never been put in comparison to say post bullet deaths, post beating with a metal bar deaths, post drink drive RTC deaths etc...

Nobody has ever claimed the device to be perfect, but in what i see as an increasingly violent society, where knives and firearms are routinely carried by a large section of the criminal fraternity, and there is a steady errosion of respect for the police and the work they have to do(possibly fuelled by the media's post incident feeding frenzy at the merest hint of Police use of force), something is needed for the Police to gain control over drunken violent louts.

Ask yourself this, how would you feel if it was you or your loved ones that had just been seriously assaulted by a violent drunk, with injuries that amount to GBH? How would you want the Police to deal with him? Would you have them follow him on CCTV, until he's lost from sight, or watching him smack anyone who gets in his way until he is identified; then the Police could wait until he was sober? hey, they could then ask him to meet them at the Police station which is most convenient to him, at some time in the future months - they could even make him a cup of tea on his arrival, then have nice cosy interview whilst respecting his Human Rights (just because someone chooses to withdraw from society and not contribute in any way except cause misery to law abiding citizens, don't you think they don't deserve all of the protection afforded to society). Is that how you'd like this person being dealt with, whilst you're having skin grafts on the facial injury you'll be carrying for the rest of your life?

No? Well me neither.

In my opinion the mistake Police in this clip made was to jump in too quickly to cuff him; I don't think they had fully gained compliance until they tried, and as a result they still had a bit of a fight with him.

On the topic of 4 Police onto 1 Person. try to realise that the Police are not there to knock someone on their arse and give him a good old kicking - many cops are capable, but the aim in these circumstance is to restrain the individual whilst causing least injury to themselves, members of the public and the suspect. You need a lot of people to do this safely, yet the same old crap seems to crop up time and time again that it is Police brutality. Could you do it?

Sorry about the epic post but sometimes you have to raise the head above the parapet

He punched him in the arm, which they're supposed to do instead of trying to force cuffs on people

I had jumped to the conclusion that he was simply punching him indiscriminately but this explains the technique.

They weren't hard enough on this drunken wan#er. I find it amazing that people on here get a situation so wrong. The Tazer is in use for this exact reason. The UK has a massive problem with drunken twunts walking around our towns at night causing the police to be back logged dealing with such people. To say they were heavy handed is stupid, they were being soft. The guy should have had a real kicking. It's bad enough that an officer has been injured then when they try to make the arrest the police are then the targets of excessive force. It's pure bullsh1t like this that frustrates me. I for one do have respect for the police and have no reason what so ever to question what they do. I keep myself out of trouble and don't like this tool, cause trouble. The crowd is the same as the crowds you get at school fights but are a little older and feel they have a valid point when drunk. They don't help a situation but make it much worse.

give the police a break, the bad apples in the forces will be routed out. They are under staffed and under supported.

Just my 2p worth.

errosion of respect for the police and the work they have to do(possibly fuelled by the media's post incident feeding frenzy at the merest hint of Police use of force)

Possibly fuelled by explosion in mobile phones with video recording capabilities meaning that incidents of bad behaviour or excessive force by the police are now exposed where previously they were covered up?

How many violent pissheads have I tried to control - many. Its easy if you know what you're doing and stay calm. But then again I had many years of training.

[i]View the video at full screen and some of you will find that you need an anatomy lesson - the arms are below the neck, not above.[/i]

Did that just to make sure and your right his head is above his neck just as well they punched the top of his arm then.

Ask yourself this, how would you feel if it was you or your loved ones that had just been seriously assaulted by a violent drunk, with injuries that amount to GBH?

Gut reaction would probably be revenge. Police are no different. We have the due process of the law to keep a check on knee jerk reactions. Who decides he has committed GBH? I would rather it was Judge and Jury and not the copper with a "right you b****rd" attitude.

The force used to me, seemed excessive. Suppose thats the problem with "reasonable force". Its a very subjective concept.

What amazes me is how everyone wants to comment and slate when they have no knowledge of the full circumstances. Mildred very informed answer.

Speshpaul EVERYONE moans about their job at some point, police officer don't whinge any more or less than anyone else.

What amazes me is how everyone wants to comment and slate when they have no knowledge of the full circumstances.

But only if they disagree with your interpretation, if they are sticking up for the police then commenting without knowledge of the full circumstances is fine apparently.

Not a massive surprise to see police 'sticking up for their own' again is it.

I personally have no issues with violent drunks getting tazered by the cops. If he's not a violent drunk, then there are some issues to be addressed.

I have not commented personally about my thoughts on this incident however I think Mildred has written a very informative and open response getting people to think about things they may not have. This is the reason that I don't comment personally anymore either about these things. I think NickC has the right attitude and I certainly do not stick up for all coppers. There are a resonable amount out there that use to much force and need to be sacked however it doesn't help with videos like this and people jumping to conclusions.

Smee -

Smee - Member

How many violent pissheads have I tried to control - many. Its easy if you know what you're doing and stay calm. But then again I had many years of training.

Under what circumstances? Cos from your previous post you clearly haven't got a clue about police techniques for control and restraint or the rules they work under

I do enjoy the chappie bawling "tazer! tazer! tazer!!" every time he zaps the bloke. Presumably that is standard procedure. What do they yell when they're using a proper gun? Is it "gun! gun! gun!", "glock 9mm! glock 9mm! glock 9mm!" or just "die! die! die!"? 😀

As noted, being a police officer is a hard job, and if you piss them off they are legally empowered and carry weapons precisely for the purpose of hurting you really badly. If you do what they say, immediately and respectfully, making no sudden movements, then you have nothing to fear. 😉

TJ - Smee has extensive training in all the battle techniques of the hardened Zoo-Fighter. Ewe Nose it. 😉

TJ - growing up where I did provided many opportunities to deal with large violent drunk people. There are also some of the best martial arts instructors on the planet down there too, and not much else to do.

So trained in martial arts not control and restraint and "sorting out drunks" as a civilian not as a professional. So what martial art and to what level? What professional role did you have in restraining drunks?

Really qualifies you to comment on police control and restraint

Really qualifies you to comment on police control and restraint

Juan - because control and restrain as the police use is very very different. I have seen it done a lot and I know that what the cops did in that clip was in accordance with their training pretty much

because control and restrain as the police use is very very different.

I have seen it done a lot

but you have no official training as such TJ?

ROFLMAFAO @pook

One more keyboard/screen to clean LOl

BigDummy :"I do enjoy the chappie bawling "tazer! tazer! tazer!!" every time he zaps the bloke. Presumably that is standard procedure. What do they yell when they're using a proper gun? Is it "gun! gun! gun!", "glock 9mm! glock 9mm! glock 9mm!" or just "die! die! die!"?"

Wrong ... if it is a gun then the police should have shouted ".45! .45! .45!" Rather theh Glock 9mm as that is blatant advertisement and promotion. Unfair advantage over other brand names that is not in the police force.

Once the gun is drawn they should then shout "Die you M**fer piece of waste! (American style) or do it the polite way "Take that! (by blowing off the guy's left nut) ... then make a joke about it and smile."

For those drunken etc ... just pepper spray them without saying a word then if they try to say something ... zap them immediately.

That will learn them!!!

😆

Pook - I am trained in control and restraint but at a low level. Not done it for years however. The aim is to immobilise the person without injury to them or to the restrainers.

I sometimes work alongside the police and PCSOs in a police station- I have never seen control and restraint done so efficiently and safely. Usual score is around half a dozen a night that kick off in the cop shop and need to be restrained - so its just my observation but from an informed viewpoint.

Wpould you rather they batoned him?
Control and restraint techniques are not the same as martial arts. The aims are different and so are the techniques

My best mate was a firearms officer.

In the course of his service he was called to "live" events about once a week, to false alarms almost daily. (Think about the strain that puts on you as an individual and your relationships) He was severely beaten up and hospitalised on at least three occasions as a copper. Eventually when he did actually shoot someone dead in the line of duty the trauma of it was so great that of the officers in the team at the time, none are any longer in the force, all bar one has subsequently suffered from severe alcoholism, and all of them are now divorced. He and his family also received death threats from the dead offenders family.

Never on any occasion has he or his team gone overboard or over reacted to a situation. He has had to defend himself routinely from allegations as such as the above. None of those who have offended against him were ever charged wit hany offence.

Bottom line : These people are extraordinarily disciplined and well trained, they are painfully aware of cameras, mobile phones and the like and the potantial outcome for them if they over react. Drunks on the other hand behave like ****s, are often violent and yet somehow always seem to be the entirely innocent party of assaults by Police. Strange...

However, boringly, "if you can't do the time don't do the crime" is my new watchword..... learnt that on here 😀

The man is alleged to have then assaulted an officer, who needed hospital treatment.

The man was subsequently arrested on suspicion of causing grievous bodily harm and released on police bail.

I reckon he viciously assaulted the coppers fist with his nose then laid into his toecaps with his groin. My brother got arrested and charged with assault for doing that.
Best police force in the world. Gawd bless 'em.

Just to make it clear - I am not saying cops don't use unnecessary force sometimes - just on this occasion it does not appear to me to be so

How can you say that ? You have no conclusive evidence of what preceeded those events.

Much the same way that you haven't monkey, so basically TJ's supposition is just as valid as yours. More so really given that the bloke in question made no complaint, presumably not seeing it as appropriate even with the video, besides which the bill have voluntarily refered it to the IPCC so even more time and money can be wasted investigating another non event.

Oh yeah, and presumably your brother was minding his own business and doing nothing at all, sitting at home in his front room drinking tea when a van load of bill arrived out of nowhere for no reason and kicked the crap out of him right?

Never on any occasion has he or his team gone overboard or over reacted to a situation.

How do you know that then?

Much the same way that you haven't monkey, so basically TJ's supposition is just as valid as yours

I've got the evidence of a man being tazered on video. There is no evidence shown of the same man assaulting a PO. Furthermore, are you suggesting that you have to prove that you haven't assaulted a PO in order to avoid being tazered ? That makes a lot of sense.

More so really given that the bloke in question made no complaint,

How do you know ?

Oh yeah, and presumably your brother was minding his own business and doing nothing at all, sitting at home in his front room drinking tea when a van load of bill arrived out of no where for no reason and kicked the crap out of him right?

No, peaceful protest on an anti NF march, randomly dragged out and assaulted then charged with assault. All charges dropped before it got to court. I know that he'd done nothing as I was marching beside him. Are you going to call me a liar because you can't imagine that such a thing would happen ?

Anything else you'd like to say ? Try to make it worthwhile if you have.

How do you know that then?

a) Because I know him extremely well
b) Because there has never been any charge made against them
c) The few complaints that have been made have all been independantly investigated, and found to be not reasoanble in the prevailing circumstances.

Apart from that just guessing

trailmonkey - Member

How can you say that ? You have no conclusive evidence of what preceeded those events.

If thats aimed at me read my post above

TandemJeremy - Member

Just to make it clear - [b]I am not saying cops don't use unnecessary force sometimes[/b] - just on this occasion it does not [b]appear to me[/b] to be so

Not conclusive - my opinion from the evidence I have which is that video clip and from the knowledge I have of control and restraint.

Not conclusive - my opinion from the evidence I have which is that video clip and from the knowledge I have of control and restraint

TJ,my point is that there is [b]no[/b] evidence presented that the victim has done anything wrong at all, only that he has been charged, I know from experience that this means nothing at all. If the victim had done nothing, then you'd have to agree that the force was extremely excessive.

No, peaceful protest on an anti NF march, randomly dragged out and assaulted then charged with assault. All charges dropped before it got to court. I know that he'd done nothing as I was marching beside him. Are you going to call me a liar because you can't imagine that such a thing would happen ?

Anything else you'd like to say ? Try to make it worthwhile if you have.

Yep there sure is. So what you are saying is that in front of a large number of witnesses, and for no reason whatosever the Police pulled your brother out of a crowd, presumably some 20 odd years ago and assaulted him, arrested him and charged him with assault, then dropped the charges. Did he take it further? Given what I know about the Police Complaints Authority even then that would be a dead cert for several officers jobs at the very least and probably prison sentences to boot. Now its a different world, and extremely unlikely as you are seeing in this thread that their actions would go unchallenged. Incidentally, I also was a victim of a Police assault. In 1963 the local bobby caught me scrumping and gave me a thick ear, then took me home and my dad gave me a hiding too. I tried to have them both for assault, but no one took any notice.

Regarding the bloke not making a complaint it was widely reported by the media at the time the video was published. It was then confirmed when the Chief Constable announced that due to the need to maintain public confidence they were going to refer the case to the IPCC despite no complaint having been made. Again apart from that just guessing.

I've got the evidence of a man being tazered on video. There is no evidence shown of the same man assaulting a PO.

What apart from the copper in question being hospitalised? Presumably punched his own lights out so his mates could have some fun but still be covered in case it got videoed?

Ah - I see your point TM. In the vid clip he is clearly resisting and the force used to subdue someone resisting arrest does not appear to me to be excessive - but yes we don't know what happened before that apart from a copper was injured and the arrested man was drunk

So what you are saying is that in front of a large number of witnesses, and for no reason whatosever the Police pulled your brother out of a crowd, presumably some 20 odd years ago and assaulted him, arrested him and charged him with assault, then dropped the charges.

Yes, that's exactly what happened. Why it makes a difference that it was 20 years ago, I don't know. What I do know is that from seeing that, a law abiding person such as myself has grown up assuming that the police are violent thugs that act outside of the law and make up bogus charges as they see fit. I haven't asked to have that opinion, it's been forced upon me. My world would be a better place if it hadn't. Being brutalised by the police was common place where I came from. It was a really productive tactic. 🙄

Did he take it further?

Yeah, he really fancied another kicking.

I also was a victim of a Police assault. In 1963 the local bobby caught me scrumping and gave me a thick ear, then took me home and my dad gave me a hiding too. I tried to have them both for assault, but no one took any notice.

I suppose you're going to claim that a police man hitting a young child is acceptable now, a clip round the ear never hurt me, yada yada yada 🙄

Now I now the level we're at, I'm not going to waste my time debating anymore.

I suppose you're going to claim that a police man hitting a young child is acceptable now, a clip round the ear never hurt me, yada yada yada

Nope the point that I'm making is that its very unlikely to happen nowadays, and its not reasonable to make comparisions with what went on 20 years ago and now in this respect. A great deal has happened and the situation is very different. Exactly as you found my example fatuous, which it obviously intentionally was, so to be honest is yours in relation to this event. Surely you can see that?? You've compared a situation today with one 20 years ago, and I compared yours with an equally true one 20 odd years before that. Not unreasonable surely?

Not only that, if no complaint was made, its really pretty difficult to argue what the outcome might have been. As I recall it, and being closely involved with the Police force at the time, there would be a very high chance of a result, and pretty much nil of a further assault. Where are you talking about? Belfast??

Imagine if the guy in the footage was black. There'd have been big trouble, whole communities would be rampaging the streets baying for blood. Innocent people would be murdered in "revenge" attacks and **** "community" spokesmen would be telling us their community is not to blame, blah blah blah.

I thought the same when that dude died a few months back during the London riots, but luckily he was white. I really really hope this never happens but I think it probably will.

Where are you talking about? Belfast??

HaHa, we dreamed of a force as liberal as the RUC. Birmingham if you must know. If you're not aware of their wonderful record, then Google for the West Midlands Serious Crimes Squad, The Bridgewater 4 or the Birmingham 6. If you're labouring under the illusion that it was just "a few bad apples" let me assure you that the whole orchard was rotten. Aged 15, I was dragged out of a disco by the local beat bobby and a burly colleague who held me against a wall and told me that they knew who I was and that they knew I was a communist, FFS.

After this sort of stuff, why should I have any reason to have anything but suspicion and mistrust of the police. My first thoughts on reading that report were that I doubt if any charges are ever brought against the guy for assaulting a PO.

Imagine if the guy in the footage was black. There'd have been big trouble, whole communities would be rampaging the streets baying for blood. Innocent people would be murdered in "revenge" attacks and **** "community" spokesmen would be telling us their community is not to blame, blah blah blah.

Yeah, cos that happens every time a copper assaults a black person.
Well thought out point, I look forward to further contributions.

If you do what they say, immediately and respectfully, making no sudden movements, then you have nothing to fear.

Apart from the guy they shot while he was turning round to see who was shouting
Or the bloke with the table leg or the guy with the umbrella or the guy with the airgun[airgun 😯 for gods sake [and not a very powerful one at that]
Or best of all ,the chap they shot while he was attempting to rob a P/Office,the cops got wind of it and 'staked out' inside the office including behind the counter
several officers got up in court saying the same thing,they identified themselves as armed police several times and only after many warnings shot him.
One of the witnesses,a little old lady in for her pension who witnessed everything said,as the coloured robber came into the office,the police jumped,said and i quote-*Night Night sooty*,and promptly shot him

Maybe the guy was a scumbag,but to shoot him out of hand without so much as a warning ,is completely criminal behaviour.
.
.
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Lights touchpaper...backs away slowly 😀

He was more than likely cautioned and arrested for a public order offence, which then escalated when he was non compliant. These incedents tend to escalate very quickly. Lots of adrenalin on both sides.

I would say that what happened was disproportianate. I would understand a bit more if he was carrying an offensive weapon or suspected of violent crime, a danger to the public that would warrent such a reaction. Reality is he was probably just drunk and being stupid and the situation escalated.

Provocation doesn't seem to apply to the police. Athough we will never find out what actually happened. We are all assuming based on our own personal outlooks.

Provocation doesn't apply to the police!? It is not a defence for anything except murder.

Not in a legal sense, I'm talking generally. You've missed my point. Trying to say that often (I've seen it happen) the police will provoke and situations escalate.

With ya ... oooohhhh it's boiling up in here now ... I'm sitting and watching ... gets good!

I thought the same when that dude died a few months back during the London riots, but luckily he was white. I really really hope this never happens but I think it probably will.

Why would black people have a riot if a black man was treated the same way? Is it down to the continuous harassment they have had from the Police over the years?

Perception.

Not going to comment on the Video as I don't know what the circumstances are leading up to it, but the reaction to it tells a story that more and more people now believe the Police are using excessive force more and more often and incidents like the Protests in London is not helping the cause.

The Police are now having to deal with an increasingly "everyday" violent society, the trouble with that is sometimes it desensitizes the Police when it comes to dealing with the Public as a whole.

In other words that yes some Police are becoming more aggressive, but its also incidents like the above that is causing the Public to perceive that it is now par for the course.

Jackson - its usually the other way round - the police don't want to be bothered with arresting drunken idiots who might not even face a magistrate. However many times the cops say "you're drunk, you're acting like an idiot - now go home" some drunks just want to pick a fight with them.

Most of us have been drunk and acted like an idiot at times - some even warned off by cops. Most of us however don't get arrested because when the cop says - "go away" we do.

Maybe we are lucky with our edinburgh cops but I can say hand on heart that I have never seen them acting out of order. Indeed I have seen them put up with all sorts of shite before they actually arrest a drunken idiot.

[i]the police will provoke and situations escalate[/i]

This is when it is so important to remember that they have weapons, and they despise you. The only thing standing between you and serious harm is the paperwork they will have to do after hurting you.

Back away, keep your hands visible at all times. Avoid making eye contact. Avoid making sudden movements. Speak calmly and quietly only if spoken to. Call them "sir". Under no circumstances criticise them or suggest that they should have better things to do.

😀

I have a mate in the polis, the reason he joined is because he "loves beating up scumbags" Seriously, he does.

Anyhow, I once thought about being in the polis, it's a tough job for sure, the hours when you join are not good for family life but I thought a stint in the drug squad would be good.

Dealing with drunks is a right pain, the fact they wear the uniform just makes matters worse - they have a tough job for sure.

Same as any career, there are good guys and some right bung holes. But if we didn't have them the consequenses would be horrible...

Did they use exsessive force? I don't know? Maybe a little but if I had just seen my mate beaten up I'd be wading in....

Call them "sir".

Call them Sir? Don't be ridiculous.

It all becomes a little bit Freudian when people talk about the police. Transference, projection, all police officers are fascist/racist/thuggish/sociopathic/inhuman blah blah blah... They must be, because I was dragged out of a disco when I was 15 and they all wear the same uniform. This isn't Life on Mars anymore! Perhaps things have changed a little and the media only ever focus on events they deem newsworthy. Perhaps (shock horror) it's in the media interest to encourage negative stories about the police and buy in to peoples blinkered and prejudiced opinions. Of course there are incidents when police officers overstep the mark. It's human nature, and people are fallible. Some people are so farking blinkered it's untrue.

BigDummy PLEASE tell me you are taking the pi**!!! No wonder ....